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Discussion Starter #1
I have the Harmon Karmon ICE system in my 2001 Rover with NAV. I heard a crackling noise instead of the nice bass thump I normally get. Upon inspection one of the two sub speakers was trying to vibrate but just ended up buzzing instead of thumping.

Yes I know I play my music too loud, but I'm partially deaf so it's the only way I can hear the music!

I've searched and found all sorts of aftermarket installations with aftermarket amps and a single 12" speaker. What I didn't see was someone use the existing sub enclosure and change out the small 6.5 inch speakers.

So far I've removed the sub enclosure from the car, and completely dismantled the unit. fitting small replacement sub speakers and wiring it up looks fairly easy.

In case you don't know the amp for the sub-woofer is suspended inside the enclosure, attached with two screws, one in each of the speakers magnets. since my replacement speakers will not be drilled and threaded for screws. I'm thinking of relocating the amp to the floor of the enclosure. I'll just have to drill some holes and use some bolts and spacers to securely attach the amp to the bottom of the enclosure. I'll get some pictures posted soon so you can see how the sub enclosure is designed and assembled

Has anyone else done this with their sub enclosure?

Can anyone recomend a good sub speaker for this application? Sure I could just buy a used replacement OEM sub off of Ebay - but where's the fun in that?

so far I've looked at

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YRCZH8jqGV ... er&x=0&y=0

and found 3 speakers that might work:

Kicker's 08CVT654 6.5" sub handles up to a hefty 150 watts RMS
JL Audio w3v3 4 ohm
Jl Audio w3v3 8 ohm - JL Audio built their W3v3 sub-woofers to deliver powerful, accurate bass with a medium-power amplifier. The W3v3 series subs work well in a sealed enclosure.

can anyone recommend which speaker to get? do you think the 4ohm speaker would damage the factory sub amp?
let me know your suggestions!
 

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First thing I'd do is get the multimeter out and check what resistance those speakers are. Might be difficult if you've got blown voice coils but worth a shot if there's not already information somewhere on this.

6.5"subs are pretty rare. If your originals are 4ohm then I'd be looking at the Tang Band
Pdf has the dimensions to see if it will fit.

If the originals are 8 ohm each then these are definitely worth a crack for the money.

Haven't used either of these so can't comment on them but definitely worth looking into.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Got the multi-meter out and measured the good speaker, it registered at 3 ohms. I'm going for the JL Audio 4 ohm speaker, it may not be as powerful because of the ohm difference, but I'm willing to try it and see if it works. found a pair on eBay for a great price. all I have to do is drop them in the factory sub enclosure and we'll find out how well it works.
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Tang's won't fit. They're almost 3/4" too wide. It would be nice though, as they're great speakers with a huge xmax.

Rockford Fosgate used to make a 6.5" subwoofer...I put them in mine. They work well if you plan on adding an aftermarket amp to them, otherwise they're too quiet with the factory amp.

I think Kicker makes one now too, but it also has a low spl @ 1w/1m.

My amp, and the amp of the other stock sub box I have were both mounted onto the outside.

PS...You don't have a Harmon Karmon stereo.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I may not have a Harmon Karmon Stereo, however the amp located inside the Sub enclosure is stamped Harmon Karmon.
 

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HSE_Rover_4_Life said:
I may not have a Harmon Karmon Stereo, however the amp located inside the Sub enclosure is stamped Harmon Karmon.
No it isn't. You're retarded.

Go outside and look at it again. Write it down this time. Come back in and let us all know what it actually says.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Really, I'M a retard?









I'm sorry I forgot "H - A - R - M - A - N -- K - A - R - M - O - N" spelled "Alpine"

Like I said I know it's not a Harman Karmon stereo, it has Harman Karmon stamped on the amp inside the sub enclosure.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That's "H - A - R - M - A - N -- K - A - R - D - O -N"

MY MISTAKE - :thumb:
 

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This is my favorite post ever on RR.net .

HSE_Rover_4_Life said:
Really, I'M a retard?









I'm sorry I forgot "H - A - R - M - A - N -- K - A - R - M - O - N" spelled "Alpine"

Like I said I know it's not a Harman Karmon stereo, it has Harman Karmon stamped on the amp inside the sub enclosure.
 

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


WEW, Ok, First laugh for the day.........
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Dude my guy almost had you! :lol:

A level 2 going against a level 19 and I whipped your guys ass! :shock:
At least till the end when your guy body slammed me to the ground! :mrgreen:
The fight was over after that. :snooty:

That was fun, you must piss-off a lot of people to have a level 19 character like that - Just kidding! :D
How many fights do you do a day? :think:

The JL Audio subs should be here on Wednesday so I've got time to work on the wiring harness. I've got to do some soldering and extend the output wires from the amp so that they reach the speakers.

Once I get that done, it's simple: plug up the speakers, drop them in and hook it up.
I'll let you know how it sounds!
 

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Lol. You're only allowed 3 fights per day, so that's all I do. You get extra points for having pupils (people who sign up under your name...like you did me). I get beat pretty often by people who have wolves/bears though. Even if they are a much lower level.

The amp you have there is at least twice the size of mine. I've never seen one like that in a RR sub...it makes me think somebody else stuck it in there. Personally, I would remove it and mount it on the outside, as it most likely gets pretty hot in there. That extra heat doesn't help the speakers any either.

Good luck with your install, those JL's will sound nice.

-Mag
 

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He hasn't got the subs yet.

The factory enclosure is a sort of bandpass style. Not sure if the JLs will like that. One thing to try would be to just use the bottom half of the enclosure with the subs inverse mounted. See how they perform in that arrangement
 

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Discussion Starter #15
W3v3 Subwoofer Drivers (As Listed on the JL Audio Website) http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs ... age_id=200

Clearly the best sounding W3's yet, these sub-woofers feature DMA-optimized, long linear excursion capability to minimize distortion and increase output. W3v3's are available in single 2 ohm, 4 ohm and 8 ohm versions (6W3v3 available in 4 ohm and 8 ohm only) and are superb performers at medium power levels in compact sealed or ported enclosures.

Multiple patented technologies enhance performance and reliability. As with JL Audio’s flagship drivers, development was guided by JL Audio’s proprietary DMA (Dynamic Motor Analysis) modeling system to deliver outstanding dynamic stability and low-distortion operation within their intended power envelope.


Recommended Enclosure Size (as listed on the JL Audio Website) http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13977.pdf
9 in. x 9 in. x 6.750 in.
229 mm x 229 mm x 171 mm

When using two sub-woofers in a common enclosure simply double the required volume and,
in the case of a ported enclosure, use two times the recommended port(s).

--- If I double the recomended size (since there are 2 speakers in one common enclosure) that's slightly bigger than the factory enclosure, I'll have to try several configurations and see which way produces better sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Some Subwoofer Enclosure Info as listed on the Crutchfield website http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learni ... sures.html

The type of bass you get from your component subwoofer doesn't depend on the woofer alone. You'll need a strong, tightly-constructed enclosure for optimum subwoofer performance. Speakers without an enclosure can't deliver full bass because the sound from the back of the speaker can cancel out some low frequencies emanating from the front of the speaker.

Using our box-building accessories, you might choose to construct your own box to create the enclosure size that you want. However, unless you have excellent craftsman skills and a solid understanding of enclosure volumes and other technical terms, you're better off purchasing a convenient, professional-looking pre-made enclosure.

Different types of boxes will produce different types of bass:

Sealed boxes: For deep, precise bass
A sealed box is an airtight enclosure housing your subwoofer. A sealed box is best for any music that demands tight, accurate bass. Expect flat response (not excessively boomy), deep bass extension, and excellent power handling. Since a sealed enclosure tends to require more power than a ported box, use an amplifier with ample wattage for optimum performance.

Ported boxes: For forceful bass
Ported boxes use a vent (called a port) to reinforce low bass response. You get more output than you would from a sealed box at any given amplifier wattage. Some people prefer the sound of ported boxes for rock, heavy metal, or any hard-driving music. Ported boxes can deliver deeper bass than sealed boxes, though they need to be much larger than sealed enclosures to accomplish that.

Bandpass boxes: Maximum slam
Bandpass boxes are a special type of ported box designed for maximum slam. The woofer is mounted inside a dual-chambered box (one chamber sealed, the other ported), with the sound waves emerging from the ported side. The sound that comes out of the port is extra loud within a narrow frequency range.

Because bandpass boxes are super efficient within that range, they tend to boom. Their aggressive sound is great for rap, reggae, and hard rock. Not all subwoofers work well in bandpass boxes, though; consult our product information or call one of our Advisors to be sure.

Free-air subwoofers
A free-air system consists of woofers mounted to a board attached to the rear deck or placed in the trunk against the rear seat. The trunk of the car acts as an enclosure which houses the subwoofer and isolates sound from the back of the speaker, solving the sound cancellation problem of subs without an enclosure.

Free-air systems save space and have flat frequency response. The woofer must be specifically designed for free-air use. The lack of a box makes them more convenient to install, but their power handling levels are usually much lower than their boxed counterparts.
 

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I disagree with a fair bit of that Crutchfield guide to box types.

Meant to ask if that's a port between the 2 speaker holes. If so just temporarily block it up with some material while you try it as a sealed enclosure.

From that pdf, you want a total of 0.34ft3 or 9.7litres gross. Displacement of the subwoofer basket and magnet will shrink this down to an effective 0.3ft3 or 8.4litres net. If you inverse mount then having a box of say 8.0litres would be about perfect. From a very rough measure the factory enclosure is approx 7litres.

Another way of enlarging the enclosure is to lightly stuff it 2/3 full with polyester fill (dacron etc - cushion or pillow filler). This fools the subwoofer into thinking there's 10 to 15% more airspace. Ensure you keep the fill away from the speaker because the voice coil heats up and you don't want it blocking heat dispersement or catching fire. (hence the empty 1/3 of the enclosure).

In a nutshell, 2/3 polyester fill and inverse mounting should give you about the right volume for a sealed enclosure.

Bandpass enclosures do tend to boost the output over the tuned frequency range so will be interesting to see if the output from the JLs in a sealed enclosure is sufficient compared to the factory units.
 

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HSE_Rover_4_Life said:
W3v3 Subwoofer Drivers (As Listed on the JL Audio Website) http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs ... age_id=200

Clearly the best sounding W3's yet, these sub-woofers feature DMA-optimized, long linear excursion capability to minimize distortion and increase output. W3v3's are available in single 2 ohm, 4 ohm and 8 ohm versions (6W3v3 available in 4 ohm and 8 ohm only) and are superb performers at medium power levels in compact sealed or ported enclosures.

Multiple patented technologies enhance performance and reliability. As with JL Audio’s flagship drivers, development was guided by JL Audio’s proprietary DMA (Dynamic Motor Analysis) modeling system to deliver outstanding dynamic stability and low-distortion operation within their intended power envelope.


Recommended Enclosure Size (as listed on the JL Audio Website) http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13977.pdf
9 in. x 9 in. x 6.750 in.
229 mm x 229 mm x 171 mm

When using two sub-woofers in a common enclosure simply double the required volume and,
in the case of a ported enclosure, use two times the recommended port(s).

--- If I double the recomended size (since there are 2 speakers in one common enclosure) that's slightly bigger than the factory enclosure, I'll have to try several configurations and see which way produces better sound.



So you wouldnt be able to use the original box with the harman kardon subs? Im a little confused.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
you CAN use the factory enclosure, it's just not the "Recommended" size. JL Audio "recommends" a larger enclosure for optimal sound.

However that doesn't mean that it won't work. The speakers are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday. I'm going to try them both ways drop-in and inverted like rogan suggested. I'll let you know which way sounds best.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The JL Audio Speakers arrived today! :D Thank you UPS and Dimension Audio (power ebay seller!)
These speakers are HEAVY! 6LBS EACH! :shock:
So I was thinking that the speakers would be easy and just drop in the existing recessed holes where the factory speaker mounted to. Not the Case. :naughty: The JL Audio speaker is a bit larger that 6.5" all of the existing factory screw holes line up, except there's a rubber ring that wraps around the outer edge of the JL Audio Speaker and doesn't allow it to drop in.

Everyone at work kept saying why don't you just build a box? The whole point of this experiment was to use as much as the original factory equipment as possible. So I really wanted a way to make the factory enclosure work.

My solution was to use parts off of the old factory speaker. The factory speaker has a plastic ring that was originally glued to the top of it. I carefully pulled it off using a small pry tool. I used this plastic ring as a spacer. I went to my local auto parts supplier and purchased longer screws. From there it was simple, hook up the speakers, drop them in and screw them down.

sorry rogan but there isn't enough room to mount the speakers inverted with the factory encloseure. The speakers are so long I'd have to some how fabricate it to use only half of the factory sub enclosure. and if I was to do that, well I should just build a box! hahaha :)

In spacial mode The speakers sound like the factory sub
with spacial off my setting are:

bass set to -5
treble set to -3
sub set to +8
bal set to 0 and the fader set to the rear +6
I get a lot more bass compared to the factory sub. However if you're looking for hard pounding bass I'd recomend a single 10 like some other people have done with their Rovers. but I'm happy with it!
 
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