RangeRovers.net Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,392 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm fairly certain I'm getting hosed here, not sure what to do about it... Go in for inspection, they fail me for e-brake... I'm like, "oh ok I'll check it out," assuming it's not working at all. On the way home I pull up to a steep hill, pull the e-brake and the car holds perfectly fine so now I'm just confused. I go right back to the shop and tell them, "I just tested the e-brake on a hill and it works," the owner comes out and proceeds to tell me the car has to hold 1500RPM for it to pass... then he says they have all the parts in stock (bold face lie) and they can do it for a couple of hundred dollars. I doubt they'd even know how adjust it... Regardless I go home, pull the wheels, adjust the cogs, car holds fine on a hill but will not stay put at 1500RPM... Is the e-brake even capable of holding 1500 RPM? In this state if you fail at a shop, you've got to get it re-inspected at the same shop, so I'm at a total loss here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,806 Posts
That doesn't even make any sense :naughty:

1500 RPM isn't even a controlled test at all, it may mean completely different things depending on your engine/transmission, what gear you are in, etc... that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Your RR with a big V8 has quite a bit of low end torque designed to get the vehicle moving even with a heavy trailer. At 1500 RPM I doubt it would hold even if brand new. The mechanic obviously thinks you are stupid.

Not to mention, under sustained acceleration, as soon as the wheel so much as moves an inch you've already overcome the friction coefficient and it will obviously keep rolling if you keep accelerating.

Ask him to show you where it sates that it must hold 1500 RPM in the state inspection requirements. He won't be able to because it is not true.
 

·
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined
·
27,756 Posts
(4) Brakes. (Non Commercial Vehicles)
(a) The inspector shall operate the vehicle to test the parking and service brake. The parking
brake on all vehicles will be tested by accelerating the motor to approximately 1,200 to 1,300
RPMs with the vehicle in the lowest forward gear against the brake in the applied position. The
vehicle will be rejected if the parking brake will not hold. The service brakes will be tested at a
speed of between four and eight MPH. Service brakes must be reasonably equalized so that the
vehicle does not pull noticeably to either side when applied. A test with the brake meter shall be
made at a speed of 15 to 25 MPH in all questionable cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,806 Posts
There it is... I just found the same requirement too.

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/inspect/540cmr400.pdf

That guy was full of it. There is a pretty big difference between 1200 and 1500 RPM, not to mention it states "approximately" because obviously you are supposed to use common sense and take into account the amount of torque being applied. Can you imagine trying to hold a diesel at 1500 PRM in low gear? You could probably rip out a tree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,392 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I've done some reading and apparently this, "test," is widely used by scum bag inspection stations in an attempt to bait patrons into repairs they don't need... I don't see a 3500 cummings turbo dually passing this one. I'm poking around on mass.gov and did find it's a legitimate 1200-1300rpm

(4) Brakes. (Non Commercial Vehicles)
(a) The inspector shall operate the vehicle to test the parking and service brake. The parking
brake on all vehicles will be tested by accelerating the motor to approximately 1,200 to 1,300
RPMs with the vehicle in the lowest forward gear against the brake in the applied position. The
vehicle will be rejected if the parking brake will not hold. The service brakes will be tested at a
speed of between four and eight MPH. Service brakes must be reasonably equalized so that the
vehicle does not pull noticeably to either side when applied. A test with the brake meter shall be
made at a speed of 15 to 25 MPH in all questionable cases.


I poked around a bit more and came to find it's one of those things that's been on the books since they were written, and obviously the technology has come a long way since 1940. Plenty of threads where SUV/Jeep/Truck owners fail even after everything is replaced brand new because the engine and drivetrain is simple too powerful for the e-brake to hold. Regardless my rig doesn't break away at 1200rpm, it just barely creeps at 1500. Obviously the shop upped the benchmark so I'd fail and they'd potentially make a quick buck. If I told them, "yeah do the work," I bet you anything they'd have closed the garage, told me to stay in the waiting room, and done literally nothing but put a passing sticker on the thing and write up a $200 bill for parts/labor. I'll be going back there tomorrow first thing with the inspection manual I just downloaded with the 1200-1300 benchmark highlighted.
 

·
Registered
2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
184 Posts
I just tested mine. At 1200 rpm it started to let go. No matter how tight I pull it.

I seldom use the e-brake, and my car only has 24k miles.

The Virginia Code is a little different, and makes more sense:
§ 46.2-1068. Emergency or parking brakes.
Every motor vehicle and combination of vehicles, except motorcycles, shall be equipped with emergency or parking brakes adequate to hold the vehicle or vehicles on any grade on which it is operated, under all conditions of loading on a surface free from snow, ice, or loose material.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,392 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Looks like we all found the same thing at the same time :)

I just tested mine. At 1200 rpm it started to let go. No matter how tight I pull it.

I seldom use the e-brake, and my car only has 24k miles.

The Virginia Code is a little different, and makes more sense:
§ 46.2-1068. Emergency or parking brakes.
Every motor vehicle and combination of vehicles, except motorcycles, shall be equipped with emergency or parking brakes adequate to hold the vehicle or vehicles on any grade on which it is operated, under all conditions of loading on a surface free from snow, ice, or loose material.
Thanks for testing! I can't imagine the brake holding much more than that, especially when you consider it's AWD and has decent low end... Idiot at the shop said 1500RPM for 3 seconds, what a load of crap.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
26 Posts
What do they do about Rovers that disengage the mechanical ebrake as soon as you press on the accelerator?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,410 Posts
I think it's because you're calling it an e-brake. The models as of 07 have electric parking brakes - also known as e-brakes.
 

·
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined
·
27,756 Posts
There is obviously a exception clause to this rule as most every Lincoln and Cadillac product since the late 50's would fail this due to auto release parking brakes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,887 Posts
First: I'm glad that in Calif we only have to deal with Scam Smog inspections.
Second: After our new then Corvette rolled down the drive with the (I thought Emergency Brake set) they (GM) said that it is only a parking assist system and that the car needs to be in gear. Not and Emergency brake. Second how would you test (a 1200 rpm pull) with a manual trans? Not.
Our RR up until replacing the parking brake shoes would only hold well when rolling backward.

Can you go to a different inspection station once you have started the process ?

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
...Can you go to a different inspection station once you have started the process...Mark
Nah - He stated earlier that re-tests have to be done by the original facility that failed it in the first place.
It really should be the opposite, to avoid a conflict of interest type of situation. If a place fails a vehicle, they should have no relationship to the repairing and reinspection facilities.
If a place fails it and is gauranteed the re-test, they stand to gain by failing the vehicle.
I'll bet that the auto inspection business' had some contribution to that legislation.

It should be a government facility that charges nothing for the inspection. It should be covered by some of the fuel tax for the state. But instead, they use fuel taxes for things completely unrelated to transportation; like subsidizing farmers, or higher education for illegal immigrants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,392 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I took the car into a really good independent land rover shop where they confirmed the parking brake isn't meant to pass a test like this. It's designed to keep the car from rolling away and to take stress of the drive-train, not hold the car while it's on the power. Since I was there they went ahead and took the rotors off, ensured all the parts were in-fact there and in good condition. They cleaned all the surfaces, resembled, calibrated, and the car still moved using the, "test." Regardless, they wrote out it was inspected/calibrated on my copy of the invoice... essentially saying the system is in perfect working order. I go back to the shop and the inspection guy says, "Sorry man this thing still won't pass the test, I have to fail you again and suggest you let us fix the problem." At that point I pulled out the copy of the invoice, then the inspector starts talking about how it isn't a reputable shop and if I were to have him do the work he'd be able to fix it and get a sticker on it. I ended up getting the sticker, but only after arguing with the guy for a bit. Never be going to this place again, freaking inspection Nazis!!!!!
 

·
Registered
2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
865 Posts
Not funny, but it is!

I once totally restored an older 'vette. Right out of my garage I drove to get it inspected and the Western Auto (now bankrupt and long gone) handed me a list of $1200 worth of repairs needed to the front end before they could sticker it. Every part they wanted to replace was brand new!

I still do all my own work, as I have yet to find a "reputable" shop.

Anyway, glad you got it resolved!

John
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top