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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Nice one goose!!

Yes I have to agree on goose that the sound is tough to diagnose. My best description of the sound is like my HSE grew a pair of turbochargers kicking in at 35MPH and up.
Hhhmm...that's not good, and sounds eerily like what I think I am starting to hear...but at 145K miles, I guess that's not bad if it turns out to be the case. I do have very light seepage at that rear diff seal on the front diff, so the signs are starting to point to this...bummer.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I was going through my truck's service history (especially 75K) and couldn't find differential oils ever changed. Called my service guy and he said that they are never changing differential oils if it is not locking one. They only change transfer case oil. He said something that it is closed system, so no need to change. Is this how it is supposed to be?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

That's not quite correct, the owner's manual states that front and rear axle fluids should be replaced every 10 years or 150K miles (and twice as often for rear locking version.) I guess that translates to "never needs change" for most owners, or at least original owners... Even though we all seem to agree that such a service interval is way too long.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

PJPR01, considering you squeezed out 145K out of your front diff is not bad at all compared to my non-wheeled rig at 49K.

jon1, I guess the adage "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure" may apply. Frequent fluid changes is cheap insurance IMHO. Based on this thread, I had my differential fluids changed at 45K and most likely do it at every 30K interval from now on. The oil was very black in the front while the rear was OK.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I wish I would have known all of this even before my front differential started making humming noise. For some reason I automatically thought that differential fluids were changed at 75K. I am now at 85K and will ask them to do the change. I am sure it is not going to fix the humming, but for sure it is not going to make it any worse. How much should front and rear differential fluid change cost at the dealer?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

You'll need about 3/4 of a quart for the front, about 1.1 quarts for the rear. It should take less than 1/2 hour for each one...an independent shop can do it just as easily. Just be sure to buy the right fluids. Both together depending on labor rates from the dealer plus fluids should be less than $150-200.

Also worth while to make sure they tighten up the drain plugs...some lesser skilled mechanics have been known not to tighten those down properly in the past.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I wish I would have known all of this even before my front differential started making humming noise.
Don't beat yourself up over this as I doubt its all oil change-earlier-related. Its just my observation that after wonky suspension bushings that blow out every 40K, the diffs are the next thing to blow up prematurely on the RRS. Every dealership seems to have a nice inventory of recon'd differentials in the parts department, and dealers don't carry $1000 parts if they don't need them often. I'll bet someone $100 that your local Jeep/Chrysler dealer doesn't have as many Dana XX(pick a number) in stock--if any.

Just my opinion.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

It seems that people have had problems with both front and rear diffs. I'm having my 2006 FRONT diff replaced right now (at 26K miles) because it chewed itself apart.

But the mechanic said the REAR diff seals have a very slight leak, so I'm guessing that it's starting the same problem the front had. I told him to replace the rear fluid and hopefully that will stave it off.

Has anybody been able to mitigate these problems with frequent fluid changes? It seems if you changed it often enough, the delaminated paint would eventually all be gone, before it got to the stage of ruining the diff.

Also, has replacing the diff solved everybody's problem? I'm hoping that just biting the bullet on the front diff will at least resolve this forever.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

hi there , first post.... but i've been a fan of this great site for a long time...
anyway i bought a couple of weeks ago a RR sport 2006 model 55K miles , and for some reason did not notice the typical whining sound that the diffs make when they are in need of replacement..!
took it to the LR dealer in Naples , for $8000 they said they could replace both diffs as they are both damaged...
i did not know anything about the infamous paint in the diffs and the car place that sold it to me thought i was joking .
is'nt there a way to get land rover to pay for this even though the waranty is up , is'nt that a manufacturing flaw?
Auto Haus in Naples(the place that sold me the vehicle) said they will pay half of $3500 witch is the real cost of replacement but still has anybody been successful in getting LR USA to pay for it...
thanks.
2006RR
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

hi there , first post.... but i've been a fan of this great site for a long time...
anyway i bought a couple of weeks ago a RR sport 2006 model 55K miles , and for some reason did not notice the typical whining sound that the diffs make when they are in need of replacement..!
took it to the LR dealer in Naples , for $8000 they said they could replace both diffs as they are both damaged...
i did not know anything about the infamous paint in the diffs and the car place that sold it to me thought i was joking .
is'nt there a way to get land rover to pay for this even though the waranty is up , is'nt that a manufacturing flaw?
Auto Haus in Naples(the place that sold me the vehicle) said they will pay half of $3500 witch is the real cost of replacement but still has anybody been successful in getting LR USA to pay for it...
thanks.
2006RR
I had no luck with a 2006 RRS with only 25K miles. It wasn't driven much the first few yrs, so we never identified the problem til the warranty was over. I called LR North America, and they have a process for this. But it'll likely result in them refusing any assistance whatsoever.T

hey made me drive it TWICE (an hr each time just in driving) to a dealer to get inspected, then said that it was normal wear for the front diff to destroy itself aftr 25K miles. Of course it's normal when every car they make has the defect.

I think the general rule is that unless it's a serious safety issue, they have no obligation to pay for it once the warranty is over. But still, there could be other legal avenues that might work (or maybe the threat of a suit would get them to at least offer to help you). You'd also figure they would help since this is such a stupid problem that is entirely their fault---probably one of the laziest engineering errors I've ever heard of in a new car.

I wrote a certified letter to them, but I doubt that will get a response, either. Given their lazy engineering and lackluster customer service, this is the last LR/RR/Jag I'll ever buy.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I had no luck with a 2006 RRS with only 25K miles. It wasn't driven much the first few yrs, so we never identified the problem til the warranty was over. I called LR North America, and they have a process for this. But it'll likely result in them refusing any assistance whatsoever.T

hey made me drive it TWICE (an hr each time just in driving) to a dealer to get inspected, then said that it was normal wear for the front diff to destroy itself aftr 25K miles. Of course it's normal when every car they make has the defect.

I think the general rule is that unless it's a serious safety issue, they have no obligation to pay for it once the warranty is over. But still, there could be other legal avenues that might work (or maybe the threat of a suit would get them to at least offer to help you). You'd also figure they would help since this is such a stupid problem that is entirely their fault---probably one of the laziest engineering errors I've ever heard of in a new car.

I wrote a certified letter to them, but I doubt that will get a response, either. Given their lazy engineering and lackluster customer service, this is the last LR/RR/Jag I'll ever buy.
treant985, hope someone from JLR see your message here because I am in the market for a new RRS and so far I'm not convince about the quality of their customer service (under warranty or not) :mad:
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

treant985, hope someone from JLR see your message here because I am in the market for a new RRS and so far I'm not convince about the quality of their customer service (under warranty or not) :mad:
The LR guy I dealt with on the phone was personable, but it was a major run-around for nothing. Even the dealers admit that a diff should never have chunks of metal come out of it like mine did.

I told them in my letter that I'd be sure to tell all my clients/friends/colleagues to be very wary about LR/RR/Jags, since they won't stand behind their product even 1%.

I guess this should also serve as a big warning for anyone looking into a used 2006 RRS---get both diffs checked very carefully. Most mechanics won't believe that they can fail so quickly, but they definitely can when LR builds them.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Before jumping to conclusions, it would probably be worthwhile to find out what % of differentials actually fails...

There have been a few people on here who had them replaced, but even that % is small in terms of % of the total Online community here.

Failure at 26K is extreme...regular fluid changes at 30K seem to be doing the trick. I'm at 145k, turns out I'm not having any diff noise whatsoever, just slightly wearing tires, and there are many others north of 60K who have not had any issues.

In this case, I think you might be able to press more with the dealership, even though you are after warranty, if they are truly interested in keeping your business for a new car, they might take care of some or all of this. Worthwhile trying a continuous diplomatic press.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Before jumping to conclusions, it would probably be worthwhile to find out what % of differentials actually fails...

There have been a few people on here who had them replaced, but even that % is small in terms of % of the total Online community here.
Well it seems to be only certain 2006 RRS, and very frequent fluid changes could probably get around the problem.

But with normal intervals, it seems it will likely result in problems.The diff fluid from mine was a terrible color with so much metal in it that we could move it around with a magnet. And this car never went off-roading or in deep water, never towed anything, etc.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

For those interested, here is a quick video I took with my phone at the repair shop.

It's a magnet being moved underneath a plastic bottle containing some of the fluid they took out of the diff. And remember that the metal in the fluid is what the magnet on the drain plug couldn't attract (because it was also absolutely loaded with metal).

Not exactly a good sign when your fluid is magnetic....

 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

For those interested, here is a quick video I took with my phone at the repair shop.

It's a magnet being moved underneath a plastic bottle containing some of the fluid they took out of the diff. And remember that the metal in the fluid is what the magnet on the drain plug couldn't attract (because it was also absolutely loaded with metal).

Not exactly a good sign when your fluid is magnetic....

...and actually that fluid is from the rear diff, which isn't the one we had to replace. So you can imagine what the front was like....the fluid had huge pieces of metal (noticeable with the naked eye) in it.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Based on what I've read regarding the differentials on our vehicles, I had my front & rear diff fluids changed today. Going into this I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong, no howling or screeching noise. Just wanted to be safe though…..

I'm right at 88k and this is the first time the diff fluid has been changed. I am not in the VIN range with the flaking black paint (that is good news). The old fluid from both the front and rear was black and thick (not sure what to make of this). Sounds like some individuals would say this is a concern, while others would say this is the norm for our vehicles.

I did confirm both drain plugs are magnetic, both the front and rear were covered with metal shavings. Both plugs had the same amount of metal shavings, and from pictures I have seen, it was consistent with what others have shown.

Used just a little less than two quarts of LRN7591 (purchased it from the dealer), used .61 liters for the front, and 1.1 liters for the rear. I was a little concerned that when both diffs were filled-up a little leaked out of the fill plug holes. I was not expecting that???? Maybe it was the method used to place the fluid in the diff that caused this; an electronic automobile fluid pump with a rubber injection hose was used. Was there some splatter, and this was just the residue dripping out?

Since the change I’ve taken my RRS on a test drive; call me nuts, but I would swear the ride feels different. It feels more smooth, like the vehicle was struggling before and now it is not. Plus it sounds quieter. Who knows, I might be imagining things……
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

...and actually that fluid is from the rear diff, which isn't the one we had to replace. So you can imagine what the front was like....the fluid had huge pieces of metal (noticeable with the naked eye) in it.
Perhaps its the video, but that is not an unusually high amount of metal in a diff that's never had its oil changed. Diffs take a ton of abuse, and when they are new will shed quite a bit of metal as the gears bed in. I think its important to do an oil change early on ~30K (earlier than LR recommends) to prevent this loose metal from increasing the wear inside the diff.

I will counter this by saying I think the LR diffs are perhaps more prone to failure than I would expect. When my rear diff started making noise and was replaced, the SA at the dealership said they've seen a fair number of diff bearing failures in the RRS. We did not go into stats, but to have it mentioned by the SA indicates to me there may be a bit of an issue.

I'm sensitive to unusual noises, but there are probably a decent # of other owners that would not notice a bit of a whirring noise from the diff. They could have some noise or a bit of an oil weep from a diff for a long time, but not be aware of it..until it gets really bad.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I'm so thankful for this forum. I just wish I would have found this thread a few weeks earlier and I could have had my dif fluid changed. My 08 RRS was purchased 9/1/12, it was a 1 owner w/42k, all maintenance done by LR. One month later at 46k (yes I drove a ton!) I'm hearing a very strange whining noice above 35-40mph or higher. The diffs both look totally fine, no leaks, nothing that would physically make me think there is a problem. Highway speed it's very noticable to me with windows up. It makes me sick to think I'll have to replace the diff already. I'll start with the fluid and go from there. Is there a way to rule out the diff? If it makes the noise in neutral could it be a bearing/tires? Last question...if it is the front or rear diff can I get it from some where other than LR? Or dealer only has the reman'd units?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

The humming noise on my truck has been getting worse. It sounds like brakes would been dragging all the time. I am not feeling anything out of ordinary while driving though. Still not seeing any kind of fluid leakage. My next service (90K) is coming up soon and I asked for a quote of replacing front differential. This is what I got:

front differential quote.jpg
How does it look like?
 
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