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Discussion Starter #21
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Thanks Goosey - 1 club I did not want to join, but glad I got intiiated before my warranty was over. So will the replacement of just the diff do it the trick or is there more to this fix in your opinion, short of selling it before 160k.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

There's no other fix I know of unless you have access to a trans shop that would be willing to replace the bearing for you with some sort of upgraded one, if that's even possible. And I'm not sure if the bearing is weak or they were not aligned properly at the factory, or its something else. I had my diff replaced with a rebuilt one, and 15K later all is ok... so far. I just know that pinion bearings should last more than 50K.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Somewhat related, a leaky rear diff pinion oil seal may be replaced without renewing the entire differential assembly (which was apparently the recommended procedure prior to this TSB being issued.)
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Guys:

I had a major failure last night. I'm not sure what it is yet - I haven't crawled under the vehicle - but it's not good.

On the freeway, I felt a 'pop', and felt the truck lurch. A humming/groaning vibration immediately started from what felt like the front end. This was late at night, and it was very cold last night, so I - 10 miles from home - kept driving. The vibration and noise increased and decreased with speed, but didn't seem to get appreciably worse the remaining 10 miles. Definitely sounded like a gear or bearing whine, though - along with the matching modest vibration (like driving on a well-worn rumble warning strip).

When I pulled into my garage and got out, I could immediately smell something like burning oil - or oil hitting an exhaust manifold. Looking under the truck, the undercarriage on the driver's half of center right behind the front axle line was soaking with oil. I reached under to get a finger-full, and it was heavy viscosity, and quite black (but not completely; it was honey-colored on the edges of the smudge on my finger - almost like the black was fine particulate in suspension).

Engine wasn't making noise; running very smoothly in neutral, and at idle. No warning lights. I'm thinking some form of catastrophic failure of the front dif (is it biased to the driver's side? I haven't yet looked) - but would I get a thorough soaking of dif fluid? I would have thought that a bearing goes, and it stays dry outside, but that is not the case right now.

Some background: a couple of months ago, I noticed a very slight leak in the dif: it seemed as though the dif seal (which looks like light blue silicon IIRC) was failing a bit. About a month later, I would notice an odor coming through the vents as the truck heated up (akin to some fluid modestly dripping on a heated exhaust pipe, for instance) - but it really didn't have the typical engine oil smell: it was more musky (looking around, I couldn't see anything dripping on anything). It seemed to dissipate over the last couple of weeks, so I stopped thinking about it).

I'm afraid to go out there this morning to assess. I have just over 50K miles now, and this shouldn't be happening, particularly with how I baby this truck. Anyone have notions regarding what could have happened? What sources of fluid would be getting the frame members wet just behind the front tire, and on the left (US driver's) side of the engine?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Hhmm...have to say this sounds like front diff fluid...but on the off chance, I'd still check to see if your oil filter came loose, and also the power steering (pinkish normally). Bummer though if it's truly the diff...let's know the update? Taking it to LR Waukesha?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Oh man. Sorry, Mensa. That's not good. Not good at all. Hey, maybe I'll see you at JLR Waukesha this upcoming week. I come in on Wednesday.

I'm actually thinking of taking mine to that indy shop in Glendale if I ever need my brakes done.

I really hope everything turns out okay with yours. I know you have that thing looking really nice. It's a lesson to some of us to get that diff fluid replaced before it's recommended. Did you do yours already before this happened? Hopefully it can be replaced easily and not be a huge burden to your pocketbook.

(Yes, I'm writing this at work. Sports is on.)
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

If it smells like sulfur its diff fluid. /:(

I don't think its an issue of changing out the fluid sooner than recommended. I think the diffs in these cars (paint issues aside) are a hit or miss. A Dana 44 will go 250,000 miles without blowing up.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Good luck Mensa - sometimes at that speed, an oil drops spreads further backward than the source - check around, hopefully its it not the diff and something less expensive. Looking at diagrams, the front diff is more orientated to the drivers side.

After my rear was diff replaced - the beast sounds better, just the sweet sound of the Zeons now. BTW I saw the invoice to replace the rear diff, they thought I was paying it, and it was $1800++. TAfter mentioning it was under warranty and they charged the extended warranty folks, amount was $1500++.

Coming up to time to replace my fornt difff fluids and transfer case fluids .... will be doing another oil analysis to see what kind of wear I've been getting.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Mensa, I hope it is not your front diff. Notwithstanding what Frisco said above, if I remember correctly when I replaced mine, most of the assembly is to the passenger side not the driver's side of the vehicle (the thing weighs about 80lbs) A distinct possibility is that you ripped the boot on your driver's side half-shaft and that from contamination/lack of grease the CV joint inside the boot failed. This is easy enough to check just by turning the steering wheel all the way to the right and looking behind the driver's side wheel at the boot, to see if it is torn and there is grease slung everywhere. I hope this is the case, because it is a much, much cheaper and easier fix.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Not that I am completely mechanically challenged, after reading through this thread it got me a little worried. I happened to find a highly recommended Rover mechanic in Lewisville (makes sense that he owns the shop and drives a nice Disco himself and there were about 4 other Discos in the shop when I stopped by), so I stopped by today and inquired about the diffs and transfer case. I plan on dropping it off sometime this week to have him take a look and replace the fluids. I hear what sounds like a small howling noise, and I suspect it is coming from the diffs. Frisco's posts about the shavings, etc. got me worried.

Hopefully all is well, and I can enjoy my new wheels and tires in a few weeks at Barnwell.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

The verdict is in: massive front differential failure. It is at LR Waukesha now; we're awaiting word from the Regional Rep on it.

What they do here is really going to determine if I'm a fan or a mortal enemy from now on...
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Dude, sorry to hear that. Hope things work out.

On a separate but related topic. I'm sitting at 76k miles. Should I have the trans serviced now too? Not sure if this number sounds right. Front and Rear Diff + Xfer case + full transmission service = $1400.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Dude, sorry to hear that. Hope things work out.

On a separate but related topic. I'm sitting at 76k miles. Should I have the trans serviced now too? Not sure if this number sounds right. Front and Rear Diff + Xfer case + full transmission service = $1400.
I'm not sure, but that sounds really high (you can do much better at an independent shop).

Here's the outcome: LRNA has agreed to pay for all parts, I just have to pay for labor. That adds up to $700, but I consider this at least relatively fair (fair enough that I'm not going to carpet-bomb every Land Rover site in the world with complaints). They are also providing me an alignment and a rear dif fluid change for a big discount (the rear dif fluid is over $40/qt).

Rear dif service would cost about $155 alone ($42/qt x 2.something quarts + $60 labor). I'm not sure what 'service' on the transfer case or tranny is, but the interval on the rear dif is supposed to be 75K miles (I'm having it done now as a precaution). Front dif service is supposed to be 60K I think.

I would see what it would cost to have all of them serviced somewhere else - you could probably get away with half that cost.

I'm staying with the stealership because of the free parts offer. Gonna take a week to get this done - and they're providing me a loaner vehicle, so it's good enough for me!

Hey Fishy: mine is gonna be in there when you're in - but I won't be (heading to Flo-rida for a long weekend of golf!) You'll know it if you see it! `)
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

The verdict is in: massive front differential failure. It is at LR Waukesha now; we're awaiting word from the Regional Rep on it.

What they do here is really going to determine if I'm a fan or a mortal enemy from now on...
I have felt your pain. Sorry to hear it.

Be sure to document all your discussions in case you need to take it to a higher authority.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Mensa - glad they are covering your the parts. I know there is a labor rate that is different from Warranty vs peons like us. Also, even if the tech takes 30 minutes to change it, they will charge you the whole specified allowed time, not sure what it is. try and see if you can get the actual labor hours to get a better rate.

Not sure why they are taking a week for this work.

gkwait - are your checking with LR-Frisco. I would suggest you get the parts\fluids from one of the online vendors and taking it there, will be much cheaper. Most of the indy guys will not use fluids you bring in which I thought was interesting, and I did not care too much for the Euro indy guy at Plano Pkwy\Coit. if doing a tranny service - I suggest you do the whole pan and filter, I had too much metal that does not all come out with ajust a drain and fill, so may end up doing this again in the next month or so.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I guess this is all good timing, then. You head to Florida while your truck gets some work. It's better than leaving it sit at the airport in this cold, icky weather we've seen this past week.

I'll ask Bob if he purposely sabotaged your diff. He'll probably laugh, but then get a little serious thinking, "No sir. I can't break his diff. I'd get in trouble."

Bob told me that I'll have to take your truck out and pound the piss out of it to make sure the diff is working properly. He said I can use yours as my loaner. :wink:

I'll look in back for it. I hope I get a Malibu again for a loaner. Hey, at least we get loaners, you know? Good luck with this, and I hope your trip is a blast. Did you notice any odd symptoms before the diff gave way?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Hey, Mensa! I saw your machine. It was sitting off to the side, indoors. It looks like it was waiting for the diff to get there. I told Bob, "Is that the guy who blew his diff?" He said, "How did you know that?" I said, "From the forum! It's he and me representing Wisconsin." He was happy that LR paid for your diff. He thought it was pretty fair. The tech, I didn't catch his name, said it could be from the 2006's that had paint inside the actual case that flakes off. He said they stopped painting them and he rarely sees them. I love that tech. He's got a shaved head. He's good.

Anyway, it's funny. Your car looked like it was newer than the new cars sitting there. Everyone was commenting on what a great job you did with your car. I agree. It looks great! So, your car is in good hands and is sitting in the heated garage, way off to the left. I like those wheels you put on there.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Hey, Mensa! I saw your machine. It was sitting off to the side, indoors. It looks like it was waiting for the diff to get there. I told Bob, "Is that the guy who blew his diff?" He said, "How did you know that?" I said, "From the forum! It's he and me representing Wisconsin." He was happy that LR paid for your diff. He thought it was pretty fair. The tech, I didn't catch his name, said it could be from the 2006's that had paint inside the actual case that flakes off. He said they stopped painting them and he rarely sees them. I love that tech. He's got a shaved head. He's good.

Anyway, it's funny. Your car looked like it was newer than the new cars sitting there. Everyone was commenting on what a great job you did with your car. I agree. It looks great! So, your car is in good hands and is sitting in the heated garage, way off to the left. I like those wheels you put on there.
Thank you, sir!

I just talked to Bob today; I guess the new differential is in transit, due to arrive tomorrow morning (and then get installed same day).

They've given me a Mazda 6 to drive for the week. By the sounds of it, there's a hive of pissed off bees under the hood. :lol:

I'm due to get my Sport back either tomorrow night, or Thursday.

I'm having them change the rear diff fluid as well, even though it's before the recommended interval. I agree with the tech: the dif likely failed because of delaminating paint. The problem is that the rear dif has the same paint, and I'm hoping I can avert a problem by replacing the (ungodly expensive) fluid.

See ya 'round!

Mike
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I took my 2007 RRS for 82500 miles service yesterday and told about humming noise I have been hearing for a while. At first they didn't even hear it, but was just called back that now they do. Service guy says that they are 80% sure that it is coming from front differential. He said that it is about $3K to get it fixed, but that I shouldn't worry about it right now. He said that I should just keep driving and if it gets worse, then bring it back in. I am not sure when my front differential oil was changed last time. Should I ask them to change it anyways? What do you guys think. Should I get it fixed? Is there anything I should do or ask them to do?
 

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Premium Member
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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I would make sure they rule out the 20% chance that it is not a much cheaper front wheel bearing first.

It won't hurt to have the fluid changed as a hail mary play, if it is the front diff.
 
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