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Discussion Starter #1
I had my Front and rear diff fulids replaced last month, where I had a sample of each extracted and sent for analysis. Report came back with a very high level of Iron meaing that there was excessive wear.

Front diff had double the rate of Iron than the rear. Is there any bulletin regarding abnormal wear on the diffrentials and potential issues.

Had sent a sample of the Transfer case oil too, but that that was misplaced - so no idea what the reading of that was. The differential oils were thick and black; thick being ok since its a 75w90 oil; being that it's a gear oil, it should not be black at 50k+ miles - I would recommend folks to change this sooner than the suggested mileage.

Feel like having a magnet attached to the bottom of the diffrential to attract the iron particles as they come off so they don't recirculate causing more wear.
 

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Re diff oil. I've gotten into a habit of changing it first at 30K and the transfer case at 60K. 30/60 is easy to remember for me. I need to get mine done in the next month or so.

Does the RRS have a magnetic drain plug--I guess not? If not, you can probably buy an aftermkt one. http://www.lislecorp.com/oem_mag_plugs.cfm

Also, diff oil in all my cars is always dark, even @30K, so that's normal.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Frisco.

Sounds normal if your truck is near new, as these components have to 'bed-in' before tolerances are met and don't be worried on the centre differential, as this unit is the torque proportioning Torsen worm gear type since the RRS was introduced new !

I've replaced all fluids in my Rangie except trans/brakes - with "Redline" fully synthetic products and the response is noticeable.

Keep an ear out for strange drive train noises or increased fuel consumption rates in future, as these are problem indicators ?

Cheerio,


Vinniman
'88 Highline
Perth, W.A.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Maybe it's this: Special Service Message, # SSM34304

Models
LM - New Range Rover
LA - Discovery 3
LS - Range Rover Sport

Title Front & Rear Differential Noise & Oil Leaks
Last Modified 03-MAR-2009 12:23
Category: Driveline
Symptom: 509000 Axle Concerns
Content: Front & Rear Differential Noise, Minor Oil Seal Leak & Debris in Oil.

Concern: Noise (Whine or humming) from the front or rear differential. A minor oil leak may be evident with possible debris in oil. Oil will be black in color.

Cause: The casing black paint /sealer degrades, detaches and contaminates the oil.
This results in the oil overheating which results in oil seal leaks and bearing noise.
Note: Differentials from the VINs quoted below are manufactured with a new casing paint which overcomes the above mentioned issues.

Please only raise an EPQR for differential issues which occur post the quoted VIN numbers:

Discovery 3 LR3 - LA8A459201
Range Rover Sport - LS8A141510
Range Rover. LM8A268394
 

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Discussion Starter #5
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Sorry for the delayed response - thanks for all your input.

Goosey - I lke maintaining my vehicles through the life - will take your advice and do as you've recommended. I don't think the drain plug is magentic. I've glued magnets on the oilpan of my Mercedes, which I will do on the RRS as well.


Vinniman - the vehicle is not that new. Its an 06, but this is the 1st change in diff fluids. Will do another test after 30K to see. MPG's are staying constant as of now.

Mark511 - There has not been any noise that I can hear. Will keep a look out for this.

Thanks again guys.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Frisco_TX_RRS said:
I don't think the drain plug is magentic. I've glued magnets on the oilpan of my Mercedes, which I will do on the RRS as well.
Thanks Frisco.

Can anyone confirm that the differential drain plugs are not magnetic to save me a trip to the LR dealer to check? I'd call but I don't necessarily trust the parts counter guy.

I have discovered that the Mazda Miata differential drain plug is the same size as the Sport (M14x1.5) and its magnetic. I think I will stop by the Mazda dealer on the way home and pick a couple up for when I change the diff oil next week. This will be a nice upgrade if it fits.

Also, I am assuming the front and rear diff drain plugs are the same size?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

One more question...

If I don't have the electronic rear locking differential I can use the same diff oil front and back?

There are two LR part numbers for diff fluid LRN 7591 and 500070. The 500070 is for the rear diff but I am thinking this is used if you have the rear locker option. Which AFAIK I don't have.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Here is the info I collected from the shop manual. Applies to MY2006 through 2009 only.

1. No info on drain plugs (magnetic or not), since the shop manual doesn't specifically state so I assume they are non-magnetic? :think: They should be the same front and rear, but see the note on differential numbers and different styles of plugs used below.

2. Front diff lubricant and capacity: Castrol SAF-XO 75W/90, 0.61 liters (0.64 US Quarts) *

3. Rear diff lubricant and capacity: OPEN DIFFERENTIAL: Castrol SAF-XO 75W/90 (same as front diff), 1.1 liters (1.16 Qts.) *

4. Rear diff lubricant and capacity: LOCKING ELECTRONIC DIFFERENTIAL: Castrol SAF Carbon Mod Plus, 1.5 liters (1.60 Qts.) *

* Manual states these are dry capacities and slightly less may be needed when refilling due to some residual oil retained in the pinion housing. See point 8 below and good luck with that estimate...
Suggesting you carefully measure the quantity of drained fluid before you discard it, and refill with the exact same quantity of fresh lubricant.


5. Torque for front differential drain plug:
CAUTION: There have been 2 different types of fixings used for the drain plug. Note the type and differential serial number, and make sure the correct torque is applied:
Up to differential serial number 254845: Tighten the hexagonal drive drain plug to 54 Nm (40 lb.ft).
From differential serial number 254846: Tighten the 3/8'' square drive drain plug to 28 Nm (21 lb.ft).

6. Torque for rear differential drain plug:
CAUTION: There have been 2 different types of fixings used for the drain plug. Note the type and make sure the correct torque is applied:
Up to differential serial number 254325: Tighten the hexagonal drive drain plug to 54 Nm (40 lb.ft).
From differential serial number 254326: Tighten the 3/8'' square drive drain plug to 28 Nm (21 lb.ft).

7. Torque for filler plug (both front and rear diff): 34 Nm (25 lb.ft).

8. CAUTION: Do not fill either front or rear differential with lubricant up to the filler plug. The filler plug is only used to fill the differential with lubricant, and not to act as a level indicator.
The only way to check the fluid level in the differential is to drain all the fluid out and refill with the correct quantity, shown in the above specs.

9. Wash your hands thoroughly. J/K.

Front diff filler and drain plug locations:
Filler-plug-front-diff.jpg Drain-plug-front-diff.jpg

Rear diff filler and drain plug locations:
Filler-plug-rear-diff.jpg Drain-plug-rear-diff.jpg


How to tell an open vs locking rear diff... Slide under the car and look for the actuator on the differential case, should be easy to spot:
rear-diff-open-locking.jpg
A - Electronic rear differential
B - Open rear differential
1 - Rear driveshaft
2 - Electronic rear differential
3 - RH rear drive halfshaft
4 - Actuator (locking) motor assembly
5 - LH rear drive halfshaft
6 - Rear differential
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Umberto, thanks for this good info. Especially since the common way to refill a differential is to go until it drains out the fill hole, but we have to be different at LR don't we?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Just fyi.

I wanted to use the spec'd oil since I am still under warranty. The Castrol SAF-XO 75W/90 in Umberto's post is not readily available in the US. But I was pleasantly surprised that 3 qts of the LRN7591 (which is Castrol SAF-XO 75W/90) from my local LR dealer was only $27, actually cheaper than synthetic Mobil 1 75W-90. So I picked some up last eve and I'm having this done at an independent shop next week.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Goosey, do let me know when you remove the LR plugs if you see metal fragments attaracted to it and if the Miata plugs fits there - but I doubt it. There is a magnet you can buy that gets adhered with adhesive that holds up to hight heat. Will try and get you the details when I find it.

Also, if you decide to drain, and want it tested, you can use my staveley account. Curious to see what these tests come back with in comparison to mine. Bought 3oz liquid proof bottles from the Container store.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Umberto, that is an excellent writeup. :thumb: Have you sent it to John for inclusion on home page?
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Umberto, yes can we sticky this and the brakes? Or are there issues w LR?

Frisco, I left him instructions to check the plugs to see if they're magnetic.

I will also leave him one Miata plug. I'll have it put in the rear diff if it fits. The local Mazda dealer has one, I just have to find the time to pick one up before Wed.

Thanks for the offer on the oil analysis. I have the feeling we'll find high iron on an analysis, especially with the first drain. The ones I have done myself in the past with magnetic drain plugs have always had a sludgy "beard" of iron on them.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Thanks Umberto! I guess now that warranties are coming off the 1st generation, we'll prolly see more repair questions come up.

Just like the P-38 board :D
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

gooseyloosey said:
Thanks Umberto! I guess now that warranties are coming off the 1st generation, we'll prolly see more repair questions come up.

Just like the P-38 board :D

:thumb: It'll be nice to see more technical and less bling. :mrgreen:
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Frisco_TX_RRS said:
Goosey, do let me know when you remove the LR plugs if you see metal fragments attaracted to it and if the Miata plugs fits there - but I doubt it. There is a magnet you can buy that gets adhered with adhesive that holds up to hight heat. Will try and get you the details when I find it.

Also, if you decide to drain, and want it tested, you can use my staveley account. Curious to see what these tests come back with in comparison to mine. Bought 3oz liquid proof bottles from the Container store.
Frisco, both the drain plugs on my '08 are magnetic per my mechanic. There were metal fragments attached to both. The back being more "furry" than the front. Likewise the oil was black in the back and only slightly lighter in the front.

There was bit of confusion regarding saving some the used oil with the mechanic so I did not get any to test this go around--he thought I meant saving what's left of the new oil :doh: . Sorry.

I believe the Service manual specs changing both diffs [email protected], but I'm glad I did it here @30K.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

NP GooseyLoosey - good to know they use a magnetic plug. Even though my engine oil pan has a magnetic plug, I've attached a magnetic to that as well - may do one to my transmission as well, doubt I can do this on the diff.

I usually take 3oz liquid tight bottles (labelled) from Container Store and have them fill up with fluids they extract. Just curious what my oils come back with.

I've consistently seen higher levels of Iron and Silicon in my Engine oil. I know the Silicon could be dure to the engine block molds, but that should have disspated by now.

I too intend doing the diffs & tarnsfer box at 30k going fwd and the transmission at 60K. Another change I may do is the spark plugs - rather than having to go till 100k+ and potentailly seizing up and loosing efficiency, change mine between 60k-70K
 

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Discussion Starter #19
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

The humming noise had been getting louder, which I thought was the Coopers getting worn down (50%) and the cold temp making them harder and nosier. Happened last year too, but the howling was there when I tried the Yoko Parada's, not as bad earlier this year though, and decided to live with the noise thinking its the size of the tire. Gradually it's been getting worse. Took it into the dealer to check for bearing or rear diff issues They stated it was the rear diff and will be getting it replaced under my extended warranty. When I changed all my diff and transfer case fluids at 50K the oil report did state there was extensive wear metals, so I am thinking that it was a matter of time before it went. I'm at 85k now, and will be replacing my front diff and transfer case fluids. Will take a sample of those two and see now bad that has become over 35k miles.
 

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re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Hey Frisco, sorry to hear you've joined the blown rear diff club. :sad: That noise is the main pinion shaft bearing blowing up. I have an inkling that there is an issue with this bearing and it's not just a one off failure here and there.
 
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