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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey you guys, my Rangie had the motor rebuilt not quite 2 years ago but man does it use oil, like a can every 1000 miles when I bought it 6 months ago, to every 500 mile now.
There are no oil leaks. Friday I replaced both the PVC hoses they were both colapsed. Would that cause this problem, Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Scotty
 

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Administrator
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When was the last time you pulled and cleaned your oil seperator? A plugged seperator and colapsed hoses will cause all sorts of havoc with oil consuption and leakage. Have you crawled under to see how caked your undercarriage is?

As you say you have no leaks I would check to make sure you still have fluids. :lol:
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Carl, I preasure wash the undercarriage all the time no oil under there, I'm anal about oil leaks, I have not one oil leak. However Where and what is the oil seperator ?

Thanks scotty
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #4
Ok, Iv'e been looking on the Rave and don't see it. I know a deisel has a seperator my air compressor has a water oil seperator. but the 4.6 Can't find it...


Scotty
 

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Since you don't know where it is I will venture a guess you have never cleaned it. On the passenger valve cover it is inside the fitting that the hose you just replaced fits onto. These buggers carbon up and glog up with out a bit of care. Give a couple squirts of starter fluid or brake cleaner down the pipe in the valve cover. Don't worry, these will evaporate very quickly and not harm the engine. With a small pair of needle nose pull STRAIGHT out on the seperator. Any sideways pull and it will snap. Once removed give a good soaking in WD40 or similar to remove the carbon. Of course there are some folks here that just run without them.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #6
Alright I found it and I did remove it, it is soaking in WD-40, so what are the pros and cons to keeping it in or out?
Thank You Carl very much... :dance:

Scotty :p
 

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rrtoadhall said:
Since you don't know where it is I will venture a guess you have never cleaned it. On the passenger valve cover it is inside the fitting that the hose you just replaced fits onto. These buggers carbon up and glog up with out a bit of care. Give a couple squirts of starter fluid or brake cleaner down the pipe in the valve cover. Don't worry, these will evaporate very quickly and not harm the engine. With a small pair of needle nose pull STRAIGHT out on the seperator. Any sideways pull and it will snap. Once removed give a good soaking in WD40 or similar to remove the carbon. Of course there are some folks here that just run without them.
You call that a seperator :think: I think that it is better known as the EGR valve, not an oil seperator but rather an emissions device to recirculate unburnt gasses back into the combustion process to help reduce emissions, hence, EGR, Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve.
BTW, if it were blocked, wouldn't it prevent oil from getting past the valve and thus remain in the engine block ?
 

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If it ain't leakin' it, it's burnin' it. Oil consumption is probably the best guide of when to rebuild an engine (assuming there is nothing else terribly amiss). When consumption gets more than 1 qt per 1,000 miles, it's time to start thinking about it. At 1 qt/500 miles, I'd say it's time to stop driving and start rebuilding. There are two primary means for oil entry into the cylinders: getting past worn valve guides and worn valve seals and getting past worn piston rings. The PCV system can be an entry point as well depending on the engine. I don't know if it's common for this engine's PCV system to feed large amounts of oil to the intake if there is a problem with it. I haven't read that as a common issue here, but maybe I'm not paying enough attention. If hoses were plugged, then I don't see how oil can pass through them to the intake. And, if the crankcase ventilation is blocked, then you'd be looking at having high crankcase pressure which would tend to cause oil leakage by virture of pressure pushing oil out of the various crankcase seals, but you say you have no leaking.

I think I'd try to figure out exactly what the previous owner meant when he said the engine was "rebuilt." What he calls "rebuilt" may not be what I call "rebuilt." Got any work orders or invoices on the job that tell you exactly what was done? If it's truly burning oil at that rate just 2 years after a full rebuild (I'm assuming the miles are reasonably low on the rebuild, maybe around 20-30,000 miles.), then something wasn't done right, or the engine wasn't completely rebuilt... Perhaps it was just a top-end job leaving the pistons and rings untouched, but this is pure speculation on my part. You need to investigate further.

Brett
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Brett, Yeah I have the invoices for the rebuild it's been about 16k miles ago and yes it was a full rebuild. It's out of warrenty but I think I'll call the shop that did the work in the A.M. I'll tell ya though both hoses were colapsed and the Oil Seperator was completly pluged up.

Scotty
 

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Scotty said:
Hey Brett, Yeah I have the invoices for the rebuild it's been about 16k miles ago and yes it was a full rebuild. It's out of warrenty but I think I'll call the shop that did the work in the A.M. I'll tell ya though both hoses were colapsed and the Oil Seperator was completly pluged up.

Scotty
The general reason that the hose has collapsed is because of the valve being clogged. The manifold to which it connects is pulling vacuum and if it can't pull through the valve the inevitable will occur, the hose will collapse. The hoses tend to soften due to heat and oil vapour and this is adding to the problem. I still doubt however (despite inneficiency related issues) that this is causing your excessive oil consumption. Like Brett said; if it aint leaking oil it must be burning it.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #11
Well, i'll know whats up with it in the next couple of days, I'll put the oil sep. back in and see how it goes.

Thanks for your help you guys.

Scotty
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #12
well after some research I found that the shop which did the rebuild did not do the rings! They did everything else. When I spoke to the owner of the shop and ask him why
he said he never does the rings on the rover, I told him that I'm going throught a qt. every 500 miles or so, his reply was I still wouln't do the Rings!
:shock: :shock: :shock: The guy I bought the car from paid this guy $4,800.00 for the half ass rebuild.

Scotty
 

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Just to clarify on EGR. EGR pushes exhaust gases back to intake to reduce emissions of mainly, I believe Noxides. The oil separator separates oil from crankcase gases before they are sucked into the intake to be burned and not have them vent to atmosphere, also in an effort to reduce emissions, but in a totally different way. I love how engines are described as being rebuilt and I am sorry for what you found out. You must have clouds of smoke showing under acceleration and some on coasting. Have you had a friend follow you to observe the smoke. Since you have not mentioned smoke it makes me wonder. I hope the oil separator clean up will help . Did the rebuilder advise that all was within spec with the cylinder walls, piston sizes and ring end gaps. Is the engine still running smoothly? It makes me wonder if a wrist pin has slipped and worn the cylinder wall or you have some other score or bearing clearance issue which pushes more oil than the rings can control. What you have said is that the cylinder bore has full mileage as do the pistons and rings, which could be ok if engine never had issues but it must have if a "rebuild" was ordered. Good luck.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you for the great feed back! The paper work states, car is running rough engine light on, cylinder number five misfire, cylinder five has good compression, good spark and good fuel. Found worn cam lobe causing cylinder five to misfire. Replaced cam, complete valve job, new lifters, timing chain, rear main seal, water pump, hoses and gasgets.
I must say that this car runs GREAT when the car is running if your not looking at the dash it's hard to tell if it's on. I started paying attention to the rearview mirror when driving and the only time I see black smoke is when I put my foot in it (passing gear if you will). The problem I have now is if I take it to the shop no one will want to do just the bottom end they want to rebuild the whole engine. I havn't ever rebuilt an engine myself but I have done some body off retorations and built a couple of Harleys, but the engines were always complete. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
:?

Thanks
Scotty
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #15
help anyone?
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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i guess i am lost...
do you want the motor completely rebuilt?
do you want to do it yourself?
a motor is a motor basically. i would have no issue tearing into one myself after doing rebuilds on various other makes of motor. hell its a pushrod V8, about as easy as they get :thumb:
problem will be in finding a GOOD machine shop that has experience with the liners etc.
i recently got a quote for a rebuilt long block of $4k, and a good used motor with 80k on it for $3k. i got these due to my rangey having over 188k on it! better prepared i guess...
even though i have rebuilt many motors, the main reasons i wont is time and parts prices. compared to say a sbc, just the piston kit will make you cry from what i have seen!
there is an issue with rings or pistons if it blowing oil out on acceleration, so doing the bottom end is kind of useless unless you are doing a full on rebuild (if i read it correctly).

martin
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #17
Thats the question, the top end only has like 15K on it would you recommed doing just the bottom end, or is that a bad idea?

thanks Scotty
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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well, considering that they "rebuilt" the motor, but never did the rings....... :think:
assuming the heads are fine and they were in fact gone through, they should be fine.
the bottom end, IMHO, is the crank and rods. upper end for me includes the pistons/rings and up.
if the heads are indeed sound, then i would go for the following:
strip down the motor, remove crank/pistons and measure the bores carefully for wear and out of round.
if they are fine and all within spec, throw in a new set of rings and call that part good.
check the crank, and if that is fine, new rod and main bearings.
obviously there are a ton of small parts here, like camshaft, lifters, pushrods, oil pump, etc etc etc. so price up carefully.
i just can not believe that a "full rebuild" includes nothing inside the liners!!!!
you are burning oil due to either:
valve problems (seals, seats, etc)
too much gap between pistons and rings, and the liners.
out of shape liners.
broken ring.
i have never had a motor burn oil due to rod/main bearings etc. so i would hazard a guess that the "rebuild" isn't worth $20 of my money unfortunately.... :crybaby2:
sorry for the long winded reply :thumb:

martin
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #19
Really thank you very much Martin, the paper work states, cylinder number five misfire, cylinder five has good compression, good spark and good fuel. Found worn cam lobe causing cylinder five to misfire. Replaced cam, complete valve job, new lifters, timing chain, rear main seal, water pump, hoses and gasgets.
I must say that this car runs GREAT when the car is running if your not looking at the dash it's hard to tell if it's on.

Thank you

Scotty
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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well if it did indeed get a "valve job", then the bottom end and rings would be my next job (assuming cylinder runout and bore measurements were good).
still shake my head at them not doing the **** rings while they had it all apart....
did they remove the motor or do it while installed?

martin
 
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