[bkenny]

so i finally get my tie rod end fitted and I go to turn my truck on, and the engine wont fire up. Its cranking, the starter is working, its getting fuel pressure, the battery is fully charged, but it wont turn over.

I got it running a couple days ago because it had been sitting there for a while. It started up but when I left it running, it kept sounding like the engine wanted to stall. And when I would apply my foot on the gas, the RPMs would drop fast and go almost to 0 and then slowly make its way back up to a normal rate, but again, it kept tumbling like it wanted to die.

I went back out when I finally finished the tie rod, and it will try and start every 10 secs or so with an epic failure. It is about 15-25 degreese outside, so that is pretty cold, but it was the same temp when i started it a couple days ago.

I tried searching, but the search was down or something.

Any ideas?

 

[rob evans]

You have lost engine sync mine did this a few weeks ago.... there is a small tool that just plugs in and puts the engine and pump back in sync... i got mine from black box solutions... theres one for petrol and one for diesel. About £125 not cheep but it works and you never know when you need it again...when pluged in it takes about 10 seconds to fix the prob.. turn the key and your off.

 

[leftlanetruckin]

I dont think that his prior symptoms would be due to it losing synch though would it?
If it was running rough before, there is something else going on if it has indeed lost synch with the becm.
OP, have you physically checked for a spark by removing one of the plugs?
That would be the first thing to do, as you say it has fuel pressure (assuming at the fuel rail), and is turning over.

Martin

 

[rob evans]

I dont think that his prior symptoms would be due to it losing synch though would it?
If it was running rough before, there is something else going on if it has indeed lost synch with the becm.
OP, have you physically checked for a spark by removing one of the plugs?
That would be the first thing to do, as you say it has fuel pressure (assuming at the fuel rail), and is turning over.

Martin

this is a good point..check for spark but if there is none its sync mate time..

 

[leftlanetruckin]

Or sensor testing time :thumb:

 

[bkenny]

so im not the best mechanic. How do i exactly test for a spark? I know I saw somewhere to test the wires to get one and put it next to something metal and see if it sparks. How do I test the spark plugs?

I went ahead and bought a set of BOSCH platinum 2 spark plugs. They say no gapping required. Is this true? I dont have a gapping tool, and its hard to get to the store with my truck not running, lol.

 

[leftlanetruckin]

Ok, here is the testing for spark procedure in the rough.
Remove a plug lead and attach a good spark plug into the end of it.
Rest the plug against the motor to a good grounding point.
Have someone crank the motor while you hold the plug, and see if there is a spark there.

Martin

 

[bkenny]

what are the signs to look for that I have lost sync to my becm? What exactly am I 'syncing" with that little tool?

Im just trying to understand why that was your initial reaction.

 

[leftlanetruckin]

He was referring to the engine ECM and the BECM being linked together. They have to be synchronized in order for the rig to start. They do go out of synch at times, although I have never had the problem myself.
There is no other way to synch them together except with a specialized tool, which is why I suggested you ruling out other parts first.

Martin

 

[bkenny]

OK thanks, I will be checking the spark plugs soon, but if those turn out to be ok, is there anyplace to get the sync-mate for cheap?

I realistically would love to just borrow one. Know of anyone that may be able to lend me one? I live in Indiana if anyone from around there has one they might let me borrow.

If not, the only place I saw that had it was the blackbox site ($135) is kind of steep. Is there anywhere else to look?

 

[rob evans]

what are the signs to look for that I have lost sync to my becm? What exactly am I 'syncing" with that little tool?

Im just trying to understand why that was your initial reaction.

The engine cranks over but will not fire up... its like the immobiliser has kicked in.
It may sound dear but in England its £130 . if someones close yes you could use theirs, but make sure its to you car ie petrol/deisel.

 

[bkenny]

went ahead and replaced the spark plugs since I already had them, and the truck fired right up. The old plugs looked pretty bad.

Now I have another problem though. It runs rough when idling and stalls when I put it into gear. I cleaned out the MAF and air intake, and it still does it.

While I was repairing something else on my truck, I tried to run it every day or so, and the last time I ran it for a while, it did the same thing.

It seems to not stall as bad right when I start it up, but it gradually gets worse as the engine warms up.

any ideas?

 

[viperover]

It seems to not stall as bad right when I start it up, but it gradually gets worse as the engine warms up.

any ideas?

HT leads, the cables from spark plugs to coils. ( I replied to this on your other thread)

 

[bkenny]

Ok, I have done some things in the past week and it still wont start. Besides the below info, the last time the truck was running, it was running horrible and black fiber was coming out of the side/centre muffler. When I first bought the truck, these same type of fibers were in the rear muffler and we cut a hole in it and tore out a ton of white fibers. Maybe this is the same thing with the centre muffler and I should de-attach and see if I can pull these fibers out. Would a clogged muffler, or maybe even clogged CATS, cause the car not to start? Like I said before it seems like it wants to start for about 2-5 secs and then gets really rich and then its just the starter going.

I tested the HT leads, and they were all pretty much horrible. I went ahead and replaced them all along with already replacing the spark plugs. But still no start.

When I try to turn the truck on......

Starter sounds fine.

It tumbles like it may start for about 3-5 secs then its just the starter sound after that.

The engine smells super rich within about 15-30 secs of trying to turn it over
-Seems like the engine is flooding within seconds of trying to start.

Got these codes (ps - I had P1177, p1187, and p1316 for a while, but I was too naive to do anything about it )
-P1177 Maximum Negative FMFR Correction Fault
-P1178 Maximum Positive AMFR Correction Fault
-P1187 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Short Upstream
-P1316 Misfire Excessive Emissions Fault

I got those from my friends cheap OBD II scanner. I also did an ingition/management test (don't really know exactly what the is)
Basically it came up with....
-Missfire - Ready
-Fuel - Ready
-CCM - Ready
-CAT - Not Ready
-HCM - N/A
-EVAP - Not Ready
-2AIR - N/A
-A/C - N/A
-o2S - Not Ready
-Ho2S - Ready
-EGR - N/A
-MIL - Off

I dont think the engine isnt getting synced because its trying to start, and it tumbles sometimes.
I have cleaned the Air Intake system out with cleaner (that corrected my idle problem I think)
Someone suggested checking sensors. Is there a methodical way to do that?

TIA!

 

[bkenny]

To add to my last post. I just pulled the new plugs I just put in.

First, the gaps that were "correct out of box" were about .07 off what the label under the hood told me.

Second, the car probably ran about 30 mins after installing the new plugs and they were extremely dirty (Black crap).

Something is making those dirty and making black fibers come out of the centre muffler?

 

[leftlanetruckin]

Clogged Cats will give the symptoms you describe IMO.
I would try to remove the cats and then fire it up with clean plugs in it. If it runs ok, then get new cats.

Martin

 

[bkenny]

So I was searching around the forum, and found this thread http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18970&p=134143&hilit=fiber#p134143

This happened to me when i first got the vehicle. The acceleration sucked, so I looked in my rear muffler and there was about 5 pounds of "wool fiber" that I had to cut a huge hole in my muffler to get out.

I think this might be happening again; something clogged in my exhaust somewhere causing build up? I think it might be stuck at the centre muffle because thats where the black stuff was coming out of.

Where would this wool/fiber stuff come from? (it was white but extremely dirty from exhaust smoke when i pulled it out)

How easy would it be for me to check this?

I want to get it running long enough to get it to the local muffler shop, but I don't want them to screw me by saying its my cats when it might not be.

 

[Chas]

I hadn't read through this thread before, I don't normally bother with the petrol engine, but you are being sold a load of crap here.
If the BECM and ECU are out of synch it is a security system failure, and the starter won't be energised. As your starter turns the engine over you can forget about any synchronisation worries.

The black fibre is the sound insulation in the silencer itself. If the exhaust system is heavily obstructed with loose insulation then it will be difficult to start, and run badly. I haven't bothered to check the codes you have posted, but clear the obvious problems and try again. You have already opened up at least one silencer (muffler), so I suggest you do the same on the other, clear all the loose fibres and try again.

Blocked cats will obviously cause the same symptoms, so they could also be choked, but I doubt it.
Mind you, the cats may be ruined now, because of all the unburnt fuel you have been pushing through them, but you will have to wait and see what the emissions tests say. If you have pre cat and post cat O2 sensors, and the cat isn't working, the sensors may notice and through up fault codes.
The whole stupidity about catalytic converters on petrol engines is a strong negative for me, so I don't mentally store all the fine details. There is a whole section on the RAVE CD about EOBD (European On Board Diagnostics) if you want to become more familiar with the subject.
There is also a sticky post on the Diagnostic forum which translates the numbers to words, but you also need 'the knowledge' to understand the implications of the words.

Bottom lines
Clear out the loose fibres from the exhaust system.
When the engine at least runs, but is noisy, take the car on a long trip to the muffler shop (don't drive straight there, give the engine chance to warm up and run properly, self cleaning the plugs, and burning (hopefully) all the crap out of the cats).
Have the shop fit new silencers, specifying that you don't want the same make as the ones on it already.
Avoid mention of the cats until someone or something convinces you that there is a problem, and that it's caused by the cats. You will have some clue yourself by how well the engine is running after a bit of exercise.

If it were me, and the noise isn't too bad, I'd use the car every day for a week or so after clearing the silencers to really allow the adaptive settings in the fuel system to settle back down. The engine may run better at the end of the week than it did at the start of the week. That's a MAY, there are no guarantees.
THEN I'd get a new exhaust system fitted.

Good Luck