Range Rovers Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off, I've never rebuilt a v-8. I've done my Subaru h-4 turbo about 2 years ago and an i-6 with my buddy about 10 years ago. That's my experience with rebuilds.

I will try not to ask questions that can be answered by searching.

I do want to get the truck moving sooner rather than later. So I might asked questions that can be answered by searching but I've had the motor apart for 5 days now and have spent hours on this site reading and reading and taking notes.

I'm waiting on parts from Atlantic British and Miami British and Lucky 8. Should all be here by next week Monday or Tuesday.

Anyone near Portland, OR with a nanocom just in case I get f'ed when I try to hook everything back up. I have beer or grass or cash no a**.

I only have a regular key and a blank and a title and the local LR dealer won't give me or doesn't have the key access code (or something like that) as they say, I tried contacting the British chap offering new key fobs. I guess now would be a great time to send him the emcu but I'm afraid to disconnect the battery. I've read disconnecting the battery can enable the alarm so I left it hooked up for the teardown. Probably not the best idea but I don't want to get double f'ed.

I have a "memory saver " cig. light adaptor and a 9v - do these work? if so for how long?
294137


First does this look normal? She was bulged and bowed when I removed the plenum.
294138
294139
294140


294141

294145

A/C has a small leak, can I fix this at home or do I need a shop to drain the system? that plate looks pressurized so I'm guessing a tech with an a/c gas tool? kinda like the guy that installed my a/c at my house.

294142


294143

294144


Heads still need cleaning but I wanted to post some pics before I reseat the valves and clean the carbon. They look better than the pistons did. The pistons were caked/pancaked with carbon.
294146
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Top con rod bearing (push up to TDC): Normal looking to me, maybe needed to be done 10k ago? all the top bearings look almost identical in wear. some a little wider 1-2mm. some a little narrow 1-2mm.
294155
294156
294157
294158


Oil pan looks fun to clean, what do you think 2 cases of brake clean?
294159
294160
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Bottom rod bearings
#8
294161


#7
294162


#3
294163


#'s 1,2,4,5,6 all look roughly identical
294164


Can I get away with a polish and new bearings or no?

Can I even remove the crank with the block in the car? Doesn't look possible.

294165
294166


Tappets and Pushrods (No photo but can upload if needed) look new, so did the head gasket. I twisted and pulled every tappet one by one and inspected them and they looked/felt flawless. the cam looks beautiful, may be new?... the journals on the crank feel smooth and no ridges both by hand, fingernail and with a flat smooth paper clip bent over the journal and slid gently back and forth while twisting the crank. maybe a little lip at the far ends of the journal.

Not scientific but nothing obvious.

Finally one spark is lightly oiled, what do you think has cause this?
294167
294168


Minus the valves looking like they are toasted and I may need new ones.

Do you see anything glaring? Or, concerning? Please let me know.

Thank you.

Regards,
Derek
 

·
Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
352 Posts
Easy stuff first. Needs a set of bearings, what are the main bearings like? What is the crank like? With any luck you might get away with STD bearings again.

Heads look good.

As for the EKA and the lock set bar code, a dealer should be able to provide this FOC and instantly. It is on the LR system, so a dealer has access to it. I have had to get a couple so far and it was no harder than walking into the spares department with a copy of the rego papers and two minutes walking out with a print out of all the security information. You need a key fob as using a key in the door continuously will eventually wear out the lock actuation mechanism, causing further grief.

How have you got this far and NOT disconnected the battery??
 

·
LIFETIME CONTRIBUTOR
2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
5,514 Posts
I wouldn't spend any money until I had checked the block for cracks.

As for the EKA and the lock set bar code, a dealer should be able to provide this FOC and instantly. It is on the LR system, so a dealer has access to it.
I wish. I needed a second key and ordered one. When it arrived, it was completely wrong. A bit of investigation through a friendly dealer (Trivetts) found my P38A had a lockset change but the dealer that did the work (Alto) didn't update the LR database with the new lockset code.

(Dsregard the US flag on the left, I'm in Australia but using a VPN in the USA.)
 

·
FOUNDING MEMBER
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
515 Posts
It doesn't look that bad now its apart. However, the big end bearings are definitely worn out. Worth investing in a micrometer to measure the crankshaft journals accurately and determine whether a regrind is necessary! Having gone this far, even if a regrind is not required, it would be false economy not to replace the main crankshaft bearings.

Any crankshaft end float?

Any lip at the top of the bores?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
Agree with the above, the carbon is due to it having been burning oil caused by the stuck oil control rings. It's almost certainly been neglected at some point in the past. I doubt the crank will need anything more than a polish and a new set of bearing shells although it would be worth doing the main bearings while you are this far in. They can be changed with the engine in place by sliding the old ones out of the block and sliding the new ones in. Give the bores a honing to break any glaze that will have formed.

The oil on the outside of one of the spark plugs will be down to a leaking rocker cover gasket as they always do. Put some proper spark plugs in it anyway, those 4 electrode ones aren't recommended, use NGK PFRN6N-11 which are the NGK equivalent to the recommended Champions which seem to have downhill recently.
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It doesn't look that bad now its apart. However, the big end bearings are definitely worn out. Worth investing in a micrometer to measure the crankshaft journals accurately and determine whether a regrind is necessary! Having gone this far, even if a regrind is not required, it would be false economy not to replace the main crankshaft bearings.

Any crankshaft end float?

Any lip at the top of the bores?
I haven’t taken the front cover off yet. I’ll get into tomorrow and see what float I have. I’ll pick up a micrometer and see what I find out. No lip, just the chamfered edge


Agree with the above, the carbon is due to it having been burning oil caused by the stuck oil control rings. It's almost certainly been neglected at some point in the past. I doubt the crank will need anything more than a polish and a new set of bearing shells although it would be worth doing the main bearings while you are this far in. They can be changed with the engine in place by sliding the old ones out of the block and sliding the new ones in. Give the bores a honing to break any glaze that will have formed.

The oil on the outside of one of the spark plugs will be down to a leaking rocker cover gasket as they always do. Put some proper spark plugs in it anyway, those 4 electrode ones aren't recommended, use NGK PFRN6N-11 which are the NGK equivalent to the recommended Champions which seem to have downhill recently.
I completely agree. Somewhere along the way someone wasn’t very nice to this motor.

I think the honing is possibly not needed. What do you think?
294187
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
No, doesn't look like they need a hone, no glaze there.
 

·
FOUNDING MEMBER
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
515 Posts
No lip! I was amazed that there was no discernible lip on my bores when the head gaskets were replaced (coolant leak) at around 80k miles and to see no lip at your mileage is a good advert as to the longevity of these old engines! The honing in the bores still looks pretty good - has it been rebored previously? Whatever, I would say that the original pistons are good to go with new rings but I would measure them and the bores just to make sure. However I would knock out the gudgeon pins, check all is well and clean up all around the small ends and check for any ‘give’.

As Richard has stated it shoukd be possible to rotate the crank top main bearings out and new ones back in to replace them - providing, of course, the journals are all OK and measure up.

Could be a straight forward reassembly job with new rings and bearings at this rate.

Are you going to refurbish the heads? I had mine skimmed and all the valve guides etc. checked (all pretty much as new) and valves relapped when the head gaskets were replaced.
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
End Float was 0.0115", just above the tolerance. 0.0015" more than Rave says is the max. I ordered new main bearings and will attempt to get it within the limits set by Rave when I install the new bearings, if that's possible. I think from what I've read I should be able to get it back within tolerance when I put the new bearings in. If I cannot, I guess I'll have to live with 0.0015" extra float. Is this 0.0015 going to cause problems, if so what would they be?

From Rave
"Crankshaft end - float - check
1. Set-up DTI to measure end float.
2. Move crankshaft forwards and zero gauge.
3. Move crankshaft rearwards, record end-float
reading obtained.
Crankshaft end-float = 0.08 to 0.26 mm (0.003
to 0.010 in).
4. Remove DTI."

I also cleaned every gasket surface, except the oil pan, today. I ran out of time and will hit the oil pan tomorrow.

I don't know if the engine has been rebored. All the pistons have a B on them, and from what I've read those are the replacement pistons. I don't remember exactly what I read but I think the B pistons are for a re-sleeve / rebore.

294209

294210

294211


Rod Bearings came in today so I did a deep cleaning of the pistons and the bearing surfaces and used lucas assembly oil and fitted them. I got them as clean as I could. I don't have any feeling in my fingertips from sanding for a few hours.

294212

294213

294214

294215

294216

294217

294218
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
294221
294220

294222


I still have to lap the valves and will hit the cylinder heads one more time when I pull the valves.

There is still oil seeping out of the plenum almost 8 days after removal. Is that normal? Should I shoot some brake cleaner down it?
 

Attachments

·
FOUNDING MEMBER
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
515 Posts
Wow, that’s some cleaning job you’ve done there - very impressive.

I take it you will not be disconnecting the pistons from the con rods! OK, but check for any movement etc there and make sure it’s all really, really clean.

Good luck with the end float. I’m not overly familiar with this engine but the main centre bearing shells include the thrust washers so I assume you can order the shells with appropriate thrust washer thickness (or perhaps new ones will correct anyway). If you can rotate the existing centre shells out then it should be possible to rotate the new ones back in.

As for the valves, when lapping I would check for worn valve guides - if there is any discernible sideways motion of the valve detectable then I would consider getting new valve guides.

Needless to say but cleanliness is absolutely vital in reassembling the engine now - forensically so! And plenty of lubrication.

I wish you the very best in getting this all back together.
 

·
Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
352 Posts
I think you will find they are standard pistons. Factory pistons are graded for exact size and marked A to E (from memory). The bore of each cylinder is then exactly miced up and a piston chosen that will give the exact clearance tolerance required. It isn’t unknown to strip an engine and find say B and C pistons in if. We are only talking half a thou here.
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow, that’s some cleaning job you’ve done there - very impressive.

I take it you will not be disconnecting the pistons from the con rods! OK, but check for any movement etc there and make sure it’s all really, really clean.

Good luck with the end float. I’m not overly familiar with this engine but the main centre bearing shells include the thrust washers so I assume you can order the shells with appropriate thrust washer thickness (or perhaps new ones will correct anyway). If you can rotate the existing centre shells out then it should be possible to rotate the new ones back in.

As for the valves, when lapping I would check for worn valve guides - if there is any discernible sideways motion of the valve detectable then I would consider getting new valve guides.

Needless to say but cleanliness is absolutely vital in reassembling the engine now - forensically so! And plenty of lubrication.

I wish you the very best in getting this all back together.
294227
294228

I'm not opposed to removing the wrist pins but I don't have any idea how to remove or reinstall with out the LRT-12-013.
I lined up a deep socket and gave it a few wraps with a mallet with a heavy coating of penetrating oil in the wrist pin and it didn't budge.

Any idea how to remove without damaging the piston?

It seems over kill to me to remove the wrist pin when I cleaned the 4 oil paths between the pin and the piston very well with a piece of a broken piston ring and a pipe cleaner and brake clean (They were free floating when dry after copious amounts brake clean and about 2 hours dry time and seem clean) and penetrating oil ( I tried a deep socket and p. oil to not avail) so I then applied assembly lube after they were cleaned and moved on.

I will do my best forensically clean everything before reassembly.

I think you will find they are standard pistons. Factory pistons are graded for exact size and marked A to E (from memory). The bore of each cylinder is then exactly miced up and a piston chosen that will give the exact clearance tolerance required. It isn’t unknown to strip an engine and find say B and C pistons in if. We are only talking half a thou here.
From Rave
294229


I assumed the motor should have left the factory with A pistons and then been refitted with B's during a previous overhaul based on this but it I guess they could be stock. No mention anywhere in Rave about any other piston grades.

Are C pistons available?


Side note, I was getting 18-20 MPG and great drivability before this. But, that great drivability is based on 4 months of ownership and I don't know any different. I buy premium gas 91 or better here in the states and I drive mostly highway. I use the p38 for occasional weekend trips to the coast or mountains, both are an hour away on the highway.

I just decided that if I'm not leaking a quart in 500 miles I had to be burning it. Thats why I took the motor apart. I didn't have a catastrophic failure, other than the one hard start, the motor seemed perfect. I will replace and renew what I can and will detail it here when the parts arrive, for the benefit of others looking to do a rebuild.

I'm not a master mechanic and I don't have very much rebuild experience and would say my wrenching skills are average or less. I can read an overhaul manual and follow instructions, so really that's all anyone needs if they want to do a rebuild. That and this site.

I'm doing all this because I love my P38 and want to continue driving her. I'd like to keep her for as long as possible.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
I wouldn't even attempt to remove the gudgeon pins unless there was slack in them, in which case you wouldn't need the special tool, they'd fall out on their own. Without any slack there's a far greater chance of doing damage by trying to separate them for no good reason. Once you've got the new piston rings installed, I'd just put them back.
 

·
FOUNDING MEMBER
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
515 Posts
Trying to hammer out the gudgeon pins with a drift and mallet is definitely not a good idea. They need to be either pressed out/in using a hydraulic press and a suitably sized socket or drawn out using a length of suitably sized studding, nuts, washers and sturdy vice etc. Not for the feint hearted I’ll grant you. If not confident then best left alone. However, if the con rods are rotating smoothly and freely and there is no ’float’ and the rods can’t be rocked side to side then the little ends are probably OK. If you can feel any movement up there then best to get them sorted professionally - would be a shame to end up with a little end rattle after all this work! Whatever else make sure they are thoroughly cleaned.
 

·
Registered
2000 P38a RR 4.6 HSE
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There is no play between the con. rod and the pin. The pin rotates and slides in the piston smoothly especially with the assembly lube in there. It did without lube, but is butter smooth now.

cleaned the oil pan:
294234



1/2” sludge at the bottom of the sump. Someone definitely didn’t care for this car.
294235


294236



294237

294238

294239


Not perfect but a whole lot better than before.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top