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Hi All
I have purchased a 1995 P38 4.0 Petrol/LPG, The car was running fine for the first three days that I had it, but when returning to London on the motorway the following happened.
I was cruising at around 60 when I had to overtake a lorry, I sped up slightly but the power didn't seem to come, I thought this was due to the LPG so switched over to petrol.
There was no difference and when I put my foot down there was a clicking sound as it tried to accelerate.
I pulled straight over and the engine was smoking from oil on the exhaust. When I checked the oil there was none left.
I had the car recovered and today have had a look at it, I have refilled it with oil and so far there is none leaking.
When i try to start it, it turns over with no nasty noises but makes no attempt to fire, I have checked a few of the plugs and they are getting a spark.
While checking the engine over I noticed the coolant hose where it enters the engine had a hole in it and the coolant bottle was empty (See attached)

I have had Land rovers in the past but this is my first Range Rover petrol.

Does anyone have any ideas?
How do check its getting fuel?
Why would the coolant pipe fail?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Mick
 

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Somebody has done a bodge repair on the throttle body heater hose which has failed and you've lost all your coolant (as well as your oil). You've probably cooked the engine. Did the temperature gauge show it getting hot?
 

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so how dose a petrol syphon hose end up in that spot. a piece of garden hose would do better. if that's the type of repairs that have been done you need to be aware of other repairs they have done ?
 

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There is always hope!
But I wouldn't bet on this engine running again without a major overhaul.
 

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The clicking you heard was pre-ignition caused by it getting way too hot, did you not see the temperature gauge? You've probably burnt a lot of the oil as it was trying to cool the engine as well as lubricate it. Start by doing a compression check and seeing how many cylinders no longer have compression. I suspect you'll find you've blown the head gasket between the middle two cylinders on at least one bank. This will also have allowed oil from the return passages to be sucked into the combustion chambers and burnt while the rest will have been blown out the side onto the exhaust. Then do a pressure test on the cooling system (after plugging the bodged repair on the throttle body heater), if it loses pressure into one of the end cylinders, it might just be the head gasket but if it loses it into one of the middle cylinders, there's no waterway there so it will be leaking around the liner.

Bottom line is you are probably looking at pulling the engine, heads off which, at best will need skimming, a set of top hat liners fitting and, if you've done a really good job of it, the head threads in the top of the block will need to be helicoiled.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The clicking you heard was pre-ignition caused by it getting way too hot, did you not see the temperature gauge? You've probably burnt a lot of the oil as it was trying to cool the engine as well as lubricate it. Start by doing a compression check and seeing how many cylinders no longer have compression. I suspect you'll find you've blown the head gasket between the middle two cylinders on at least one bank. This will also have allowed oil from the return passages to be sucked into the combustion chambers and burnt while the rest will have been blown out the side onto the exhaust. Then do a pressure test on the cooling system (after plugging the bodged repair on the throttle body heater), if it loses pressure into one of the end cylinders, it might just be the head gasket but if it loses it into one of the middle cylinders, there's no waterway there so it will be leaking around the liner.

Bottom line is you are probably looking at pulling the engine, heads off which, at best will need skimming, a set of top hat liners fitting and, if you've done a really good job of it, the head threads in the top of the block will need to be helicoiled.

Thank you for that, and no I did not notice any raise in the temperature gauge, I either missed it of its faulty.
So that repair seems a little on the large side for me. Any ideas what a fitted engine would cost?
 

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You've got choices, a new engine and find someone to fit it but a new engine isn't going to be cheap (see http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/long_engines/4.6_litre/performance_standard_heads/index.shtml to gve you an idea), pull your engine out and get it to the same place and get it rebuilt and fitted, but again, not cheap or get someone to fit a decent secondhand engine. You'd do a lot worse than contact East Coast Range Rovers (https://en-gb.facebook.com/Eastcoastrangerover/). They buy Range Rovers, decent ones get completely restored and sold on but those that aren't cosmetically worth doing are broken and the parts sold off. They've got a full workshop and would quote you for fitting a known good secondhand engine. I do all my own work but have bought stuff from them in the past and having seen their work are one of the few places I would trust.

Where in London are you? I get into E area for work and could always bung a compression tester in the car to give you an idea of how much damage you've got.
 

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You've got choices, a new engine and find someone to fit it but a new engine isn't going to be cheap (see http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/long_engines/4.6_litre/performance_standard_heads/index.shtml to gve you an idea), pull your engine out and get it to the same place and get it rebuilt and fitted, but again, not cheap or get someone to fit a decent secondhand engine. You'd do a lot worse than contact East Coast Range Rovers (https://en-gb.facebook.com/Eastcoastrangerover/). They buy Range Rovers, decent ones get completely restored and sold on but those that aren't cosmetically worth doing are broken and the parts sold off. They've got a full workshop and would quote you for fitting a known good secondhand engine. I do all my own work but have bought stuff from them in the past and having seen their work are one of the few places I would trust.

Where in London are you? I get into E area for work and could always bung a compression tester in the car to give you an idea of how much damage you've got.
Hi Richard thanks for the advice, I am based in Surrey Quays , near the Rotherhithe tunnel.
 

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if you think the engine is cooked just fill the radiator and put some oil in it and start it up and see whether it works or not . if it steams out the exhaust it needs head work if its smoke then its oil , rings, valve stem seals the list goes on
temp gauge only work when they have water around them no water no temp reading don't feel bad I know other people that have had this happen to them as well (80s model land crusiers have a rubber plug on the end of one off it heater lines which blows off and drains cooling system .
PS you might be lucky it could be good.
 

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I'm with mad_as, nothing to lose. Remove the hose from the nose of the intake manifold, put a screwdriver in there, and see if there's a thermostat in there (there shouldn't be, but the PO may have installed one, which can block the circulation, which is exactly what my PO had done, over-heated first weekend, same as you). Fuel pressure is tested by a schrader valve on the fuel rail. Put a cloth under and press the valve pin - is there a release of pressure? If you have the equipment then put a pressure valve on it. Download RAVE asap.

If after this the engine runs ok then I wd drain/ replace the coolant (red and water 50/50), replace all the hoses, drain/ replace the oil and filter (10/40, or 20/50, a whole other debate). When you do the radiator drain into a pail,engine off. Run the engine for a 30 secs, you should get another rush of coolant coming out of the rad, if you don't then the water pump may not be doing what it should and you will want to investigate that before wasting new coolant.
Most of the hoses will probably be baked on, so as soon as you start trying to remove them work on the basis you may have to cut them off - be super-careful with the hoses going back in to the bulkhead/ heater matrix, don't force/ twist them at all (else you will become an instant expert on how to replace heater o rings)

Might be worth shoving a diagnostic on the GEMS ECU too, see if it comes up with anything - there's a section in the Nano on Fuelling and Air, and ranges for most things of where you want to be. There's also an electrical resistance check in Rave for the injectors, but then you starting to take the top-end apart, but it wouldn't be too time-consuming. Also check the engine bay harness is all connected, especially MAF, and maybe clean the MAF itself with some contact cleaner/ MAF cleaner (remove the MAF unit, remove the mesh to access the small element and spray it up)

Sadly we're at opposite ends of London, but PM me if you need
 

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And how did you check the plugs were sparking? Someone should chime in with the least damaging way of doing that. Could be worth removing and reading all your spark plugs (fouled with oil, steam cleaned etc) which might tell you something about what has happened, and then checking they're properly gapped, and all of the correct type
 

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I'm calling in to see it tomorrow, first check will be a compression test......
 

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I'm with mad_as, nothing to lose. Remove the hose from the nose of the intake manifold, put a screwdriver in there, and see if there's a thermostat in there (there shouldn't be, but the PO may have installed one, which can block the circulation, which is exactly what my PO had done, over-heated first weekend, same as you). Fuel pressure is tested by a schrader valve on the fuel rail. Put a cloth under and press the valve pin - is there a release of pressure? If you have the equipment then put a pressure valve on it. Download RAVE asap.

If after this the engine runs ok then I wd drain/ replace the coolant (red and water 50/50), replace all the hoses, drain/ replace the oil and filter (10/40, or 20/50, a whole other debate). When you do the radiator drain into a pail,engine off. Run the engine for a 30 secs, you should get another rush of coolant coming out of the rad, if you don't then the water pump may not be doing what it should and you will want to investigate that before wasting new coolant.
Most of the hoses will probably be baked on, so as soon as you start trying to remove them work on the basis you may have to cut them off - be super-careful with the hoses going back in to the bulkhead/ heater matrix, don't force/ twist them at all (else you will become an instant expert on how to replace heater o rings)

Might be worth shoving a diagnostic on the GEMS ECU too, see if it comes up with anything - there's a section in the Nano on Fuelling and Air, and ranges for most things of where you want to be. There's also an electrical resistance check in Rave for the injectors, but then you starting to take the top-end apart, but it wouldn't be too time-consuming. Also check the engine bay harness is all connected, especially MAF, and maybe clean the MAF itself with some contact cleaner/ MAF cleaner (remove the MAF unit, remove the mesh to access the small element and spray it up)

Sadly we're at opposite ends of London, but PM me if you need
thanks will do
 

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and the verdict is.......

That engine isn't going to run again without serious attention. Spinning it on the starter it sounded like it had no plugs in it except for a couple of pots. The two that did have a bit of compression actually tried to fire, just. Checking compression on the two easiest to get to, showed 40psi on cylinder 2 and 10psi on cylinder 4. Spark plug from 4 was oily and as the oil return from the head runs between cylinders 4 and 6, I suspect that has been sucking oil in from there and spitting it out the exhaust port when it wasn't blowing it out of the gap between the head and the block that was once filled with a gasket. So, it looks like both head gaskets have blown, almost certainly between the middle two cylinders on each bank. With being cooked that badly, it's a distinct possibility that thermal expansion has pulled, or at the very least, seriously weakened the threaded holes in the block where the head bolts go in. That would involve those holes being helicoiled and, to prevent additional strain on them, a set of studs being used instead of the crappy stretch bolts. Even if it was decided to go this far, then there's always the possibility that a liner is going to have shifted so it will still pressurise the cooling system so to be sure it will be OK will involve fitting the block with top hat liners.

I suspect what happened is that the owner had only had the car for a couple of days, was cruising at a very gentle 60mph so it had probably already dropped to 6 cylinders before he realised anything was wrong. It was only when he asked for a bit more power that the final damage was done.

So it's now a case of finding a decent secondhand 4.0 litre motor and doing a swap.....
 

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Do we know it contained coolant and oil when it was picked up? Private sale, I guess ?
 
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