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Does the light on the dash lights up when you turn the key to enter the EKA, if that lights up the door latch should be ok.
 

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Glad you have something that will fix it.

Having an EKA won't stop the possibility of having an EKA lockout, or Alarm lockout. If you get into an Alarm Lockout, then the EKA won't fix that - it will allow you to reverse an EKA lockout. (if you get 'KEYCODE LOCKOUT' on the dash, then the EKA will sort that).

It's a very involved system, and it would take me too long to actually type out here how it all works. I don't believe the EKA was 'Forgotten' to be programmed though. When BECM's were programmed originally, they were done on a Testbook, and they didn't select individual settings to turn on and off, but the vehicle was programmed to a 'Market' (Eg UK, Australia, Europe, Gulf States) which in Testbook automatically programmed a number of the settings depending on what was obviously decided beforehand about what main options were enabled/available for the market in which the vehicle variant was being sold. the Australian market didn't have the EKA enabled - at least on early vehicles. I have BECM's at home which are form early UK spec P38's, and they have an EKA programmed in them, and the option enabled.

A GEMS vehicle WILL need some of additional wiring as the BECM controls the starter, and a BECM set to GEMS will not crank the starter if the CEL isn't lit up. Later P38's, and Diesel variations will crank over but not fire up if the immobiliser code is incorrect (as the engine ECU doesn't confirm back to the BECM that the code is OK - which is what the GEMS does on the CEL) So to get a GEMS vehicle started with the BECM in a messed up state, you will need to change the starter motor trigger from being triggered by the BECM to being triggered by POS III of the ignition switch. Not difficult to do though.

With a GEMS the ignition and the injection is also cut off..
 

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With a GEMS the ignition and the injection is also cut off..
The engine ECU controls the injection, and the fuel pump comes on with ignition POS II, as does the ignition feed to the engine ECU.
Generally a locked out/alarmed BECM will still power all of that up - it's just when you go to start it you will get the 'ENGINE DISABLED' message and nothing else will happen.
If out of sync, then the BECM won't turn over the starter on a GEMS, but will on the Motronic or diesel.
But the way I read it, if you have a Mobi-lize fitted, then that will tell the engine ECU to run everything as it should. The BECM will still power it in ignition POS II - but even if the BECM won't try to start it if it isn't happy, then actually cranking the engine over will allow it to start with a Mobi-Lize fitted, as all it's doing it giving the engine ECU a code to turn the immobiliser off, then the ECU will control the injectors and everything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Glad you have something that will fix it.

If you get into an Alarm Lockout, then the EKA won't fix that - it will allow you to reverse an EKA lockout.

Well that's a bugger. The Labtronix Guy told me it would.
If the BECM goes ALARM again, I can start it to get it home,
with these mods, but the car is useless day to day without
HEVAC and probably EAS and goodness knows what else.

The aim is to get control of MY VEHICLE.
So what your saying is if the BECM goes alarm again in the
future it means it has to be shipped off for yet another reset?

Paul.
 

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I believe you are going to be fine with the modified ECU. It should even run the engine on a test stand with no Becm. If the Becm thinks it is in an alarmed state again, you should be able to just ignore it and turn the key and drive away.
That is the point of modifying the ECU.....No shipping off or tow trucks involved:dance:
 

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Richard G's post above is true and works; I have a '95 Australian 4.6 and have used that method after my fobs failed and I got immobilised from to many battery disconnections.'Engine immobilised' is one thing, 'key code lockout' is another, from too many failed attempts to remobilise; for a ' 95 or '96, you have to wait 15 mins before re-attempting, 30 mins for later models. To avoid repeatedly taking off the door-card, you could splice in a double pole, double throw momentary switch to simultaneously bridge and earth the two wires mentioned, using the centre tap for earth. I have fitted Labtronx's 'Mobilise' device, and set up his Emergency BECM bypass on switches. RSW Solutions EAS4 software will resync the security, and diagnose your HEVAC and EAS problems for AUD$200-ish, (and you own it). Never put a charger on a flat battery while still connected. Disconnecting the battery and turning the key to pos 2 for 30 mins will dissipate the security memory and disarm it. Do Not reconnect without putting the keys in your pocket or they will be locked In the car.
 

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Richard G's post above is true and works; I have a '95 Australian 4.6 and have used that method after my fobs failed and I got immobilised from to many battery disconnections.'Engine immobilised' is one thing, 'key code lockout' is another, from too many failed attempts to remobilise; for a ' 95 or '96, you have to wait 15 mins before re-attempting, 30 mins for later models. To avoid repeatedly taking off the door-card, you could splice in a double pole, double throw momentary switch to simultaneously bridge and earth the two wires mentioned, using the centre tap for earth. I have fitted Labtronx's 'Mobilise' device, and set up his Emergency BECM bypass on switches. RSW Solutions EAS4 software will resync the security, and diagnose your HEVAC and EAS problems for AUD$200-ish, (and you own it). Never put a charger on a flat battery while still connected. Disconnecting the battery and turning the key to pos 2 for 30 mins will dissipate the security memory and disarm it. Do Not reconnect without putting the keys in your pocket or they will be locked In the car.
I believe you are going to be fine with the modified ECU. It should even run the engine on a test stand with no Becm. If the Becm thinks it is in an alarmed state again, you should be able to just ignore it and turn the key and drive away.
That is the point of modifying the ECU.....No shipping off or tow trucks involved:dance:
Well that's a bugger. The Labtronix Guy told me it would.
If the BECM goes ALARM again, I can start it to get it home,
with these mods, but the car is useless day to day without
HEVAC and probably EAS and goodness knows what else.

The aim is to get control of MY VEHICLE.
So what your saying is if the BECM goes alarm again in the
future it means it has to be shipped off for yet another reset?

Paul.

I never ceases to amaze me how much scaremongering goes around with these things, and false information.

One... Disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes DOES NOT reset any security/memory or disarm it... if it does, then it's a fluke... you lucked out and the BECM wasn't obviously in a full lockout, but some form of limbo state. The EKA lockout and Alarm lockouts are actual bytes in the EEPROM memory which get written to different values if triggered. They're stored in the same part of the memory that all the vehicle settings are stored, and won't change if power is disconnected for any period of time. All disconnecting power does is will eventually drain any residual power in the capacitors in the ECU's/BECM.. maybe in some cases it then powers up happy again, but like I said - it's dumb luck. There wouldn't be equipment out there which costs thousands to reset these lockouts if all you had to do was disconnect the battery and turn the key in the ignition, or touch the battery leads together.

Two... P38's will power back up into the state they were in when power was disconnected. I ALWAYS advise owners that if they are going to disconnect the battery, then do it as per the manual... with the vehicle unlocked/disarmed. Nearly all problems with P38's and any form of lockout, immobilisation problem stems from vehicles being disconnected whilst locked/alarmed, or the battery draining whilst it's locked/alarmed. The latter of these situations is, in my experience, the most common for you to then get the more serious alarm lockout issues, as the BECM loses voltage (rather than it just being cut off) sometimes things seem to go weird, and I've often seen things like the EKA be scrambled. If you disconnect the battery with the vehicle unlocked/disarmed, then it will power up again in the unlocked/disarmed state. You can the resync the key fob in the drivers door, reset the windows and be on your way again. If the vehicle needs to be secured whilst the battery is disconnected, then the rear doors and front passenger door can be locked manually from inside, and the drivers door locked manually with the key.

Three... If you need to change the battery in the key fob, do it with the vehicle unlocked/disarmed. The fob will need syncing again once the battery is changed. Some people say they've gotten away without needing to do that, but most of the time you do. If the vehicle is locked/alarmed, then you CANNOT resync the key until it is disarmed - which in most markets means entering the EKA code. If it's already disarmed, you save a load of headaches. If you have a bad door latch you can still then start the vehicle up with key in ignition as it's already disarmed.

Four... Of the number of BECM's that I've worked on and reset alarm lockouts (probably near 50 odd now from around the UK/world) I have not yet had one come back a second time for an alarm lockout. Likewise, I hire out syncmate tools to fix the sync problem if the BECM/engine ECU have gone out of sync. Again, I've never had a repeat customer yet where they've had the same thing happen, especially multiple times.

Whilst I understand some people wanting to get rid of as much of the BECM/immobiliser interaction - especially if they are in more remote areas, I do wonder if I'm the only person sometimes who actually has a properly functioning P38, with everything set up as it should be from the factory. The only exception being that I stumped up for the 3rd gen RF receiver years ago to stop RF interference and battery drain issues, because mine sits at home a lot when I'm away working. I'll have been gone for 6 weeks, and I'm **** sure I'll hit the remote, turn the key in the ignition and it will start first time when I get back.

I personally think that instead of freaking out and wondering when the BECM might sh*t itself and leave you stranded, so in that case it's evil and must find every way possible to avoid it, if people actually took a bit of time to understand how the system works, then you'd find that with a new door latch, and updated RF receiver, and being a bit careful about making sure the vehicle is unlocked when you want to disconnect the battery, then you avoid 99% of the problems.

A new door latch as preventative maintenance, and purchasing a Nanocom, if you are planning on keeping the vehicle (this can do engine ECU resyncing if required aswell as every other P38 system) is a far better investment than trying to circumvent the immobiliser system. If you look after the rest of it, then it really doesn't give as many issues as people would make out.


One final note on EKA... In theory, if the EKA is disabled, and door switches are all OK, then on early vehicles (up to about '97 from memory) just unlocking the vehicle SHOULD unlock it, and allow you to resync the key. The final turn of the EKA procedure is a final 'unlock' and on early vehicles you just started to enter the EKA from the vehicle being locked.. so the first 'Unlock' was effectively the last step of the EKA and it would just unlock and disarm. On later vehicles, you have to turn the key to LOCK 4x before the first EKA digit. From memory (again, it's been awhile since I played with all the settings as mine just seems to behave) if the EKA was disabled, you could just do a single unlock and it would open and disarm the vehicle. I might be wrong, and you might have to do the first 4x turns to 'lock', and then the first 'unlock' instead of being the first digit, became the last turn in the sequence. I keep meaning to find the time to play around with mine again and document what difference each setting makes. One day...

But in short:
Yes, Mobi-lize unit will allow the engine to start, no matter what state the BECM is in, with a bit of adaptation to the wiring
No, unlocking a BECM won't stop you from getting an EKA (ENGINE DISABLED/KEY CODE LOCKOUT) or alarm lockout. You'll still be able to drive it, even if the BECM is complaining and yes it would need to be shipped off for resetting again. But as I mentioned above, it's very rare for it to happen twice - especially in a short space of time!
Sync problems, whilst they do happen aren't generally a common occurrance - once it happens one, and is resynced, usually the vehicle behaves again for years.
If you are disconnecting the battery, or changing battery in the key fobs, then do it with the vehicle UNLOCKED... it saves a LOT of headaches.
Make sure your door latch switches are OK! If the remote stops working, then having a working latch is the only way to get it running, unless you've hacked it about.

Basically, the situation you've ended up in with the BECM in alarm lockout and having to remove it is just plain bad luck - it's decided to play games with you. The up side... once it's been reset, it's really not something that you should worry about - the chances of it happening twice are rare. I would still check the door latch though... Or consider replacing it... considering it's going on 23 years old if yours is a '95 - electro-mechanical bits like microswitches do wear out, and when they are relied on to access and start the vehicle, it's worth investing in a replacement at some point.

My 0.02... based on a 10+ years of P38 ownership, and specialising in unlocking/immobiliser issues and BECM issues for the past few years!
 
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Where's the Like button? Far too much overthinking and paranoia in this thread.
 

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... I do wonder if I'm the only person sometimes who actually has a properly functioning P38, with everything set up as it should be from the factory. The only exception being that I stumped up for the 3rd gen RF receiver years ago to stop RF interference and battery drain issues...
You're not alone Marty!
I too have a fully functioning locking/ immobilisation/ alarm system. #1 and #2 refurbished fobs and a Valet key. I've fitted the 3rd Gen receiver and even left Passive Immobilisation armed.
It is entirely possible, with a bit of love to latch microswitches etc to have it working as LR designed.
 

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hi guys just for info I collected a p38 yesterday with the key lockout and engine disabled ,again another vehicle with the owner being told the becm was u/s and no eka code for the car

Anyhow after 1st making sure the remote key was operating and new batteries in I disconnected the vehicle battery and put the key in the ignition and turned it to position 2 then reconnected the battery then pressed the unlock button on the key and kept it pressed while turning off the ignition ,after which I then put the key in the drivers door lock and again pressed the unlock button on the key and turned the door lock to the unlock position ,I then kept the unlock button pressed on the remote while I turned the lock back to the centre position and removed the key ,as I did so the central locking fired ,then just unlocked the car using the remote (which was not possible before ) put the key in the ignition and all the warnings were gone as the key had been resynced to the car which now starts an runs

It is worth mentioning that I did ensure the outer drivers door handle was fully in the closed position
maybe this will help someone else in the future
 

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I believe you are going to be fine with the modified ECU. It should even run the engine on a test stand with no Becm. If the Becm thinks it is in an alarmed state again, you should be able to just ignore it and turn the key and drive away.
That is the point of modifying the ECU.....No shipping off or tow trucks involved:dance:

That's what Lee from Labtronics told me, still managed to get sync problems and refused to turn start.
 

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Hi Marty... thank you for the time you have put into this thread, and deducing that the OP's problem was a BECM alarm lockout... Also for your prior assistance to me in re-assembling my drivers door latch internals.
I don't consider it scare-mongering to educate an owner unfamiliar with the terms 'CDL' and 'outstation' on the difference between 'immobilised' , 'keycode lockout', and 'BECM alarm lockout', and possible solutions when, not if, it has happenened to enough people to warrant manufacturing the resync tools available.
The 'posn2, battery disconnected' trick was reported as a discovery by a Kiwi either here or on Aulro ,and helped me when 'press fob' didn't. It has been reported a 3rd time in the post above this. It may be that there is volatility in the fob-BECM conversation, separate from the hard-coded ECU sync stream.
After refitting my door latch, I got the 'press fob' message, to discover that my previously-working fob didn't! Since I had the door card off, I tried Robert Gerbe's actuator-loom trick (described above by Richard G) and it worked immediately...worth a dedicated switch set-up, surely, since I no longer have remotes....just lucky my '95 doesnt have passive key sync.
The cause of un-syncing has been postulated as random dropping of a binary '1' to '0' ; I suspect Lee Bourgeois' Mobi4 device interrupts the security code stream and sends an all-zeros code to be learned by the ECU, eliminating this possibility. I have it fitted and it synced immediately with EAS4 software.
Separately,to deal with an alarmed or broken BECM, he shows on his web page a wiring bypass for a switched jumper on the White ignition relay control wire, and a momentary switched jumper on the W/R start relay control wire, (with cautions about the loss of gear position detente), to allow a get-you-home mode.
The ETM cautions against deep-charging the battery while connected. There is a report on this forum about a BECM lockout after doing this, so one probably shouldn't.
On another note Marty, on the old RR.net forums home page there was an introduction by admin RR Toad Hall and a stickies link.. I can't see how to access your pdf or other stickies in the new format on a mobile device.Can you help? TIA, Neil.
 

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On another note Marty, on the old RR.net forums home page there was an introduction by admin RR Toad Hall and a stickies link.. I can't see how to access your pdf or other stickies in the new format on a mobile device.Can you help? TIA, Neil.
Not sure that Marty will be able to help with the design features of RR.net :)
Go in through this link and stickies are at the top where they always were:
http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/
rrnethome.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Glad you have something that will fix it.

Having an EKA won't stop the possibility of having an EKA lockout, or Alarm lockout. If you get into an Alarm Lockout, then the EKA won't fix that - it will allow you to reverse an EKA lockout. (if you get 'KEYCODE LOCKOUT' on the dash, then the EKA will sort that).


Just another quick reply to this.
Don't want to start a war.
Two guys that have helped me heaps and I have loads of respect for.
Marty_nz and the Labtronix Guy Lee who is not on this forum.

I have absolutely clarified with Lee that he believes there is only 1
type of BECM lockout. The Alarm lockout. And you can get out of that
with an EKA code.
Where as Marty_nz is talking of 2 , an EKA and an Alarm lockout.

No wars PLEASE. I'm just searching for the truth about it and I have
absolutely differing advice from 2 highly respected Rangie Techs.

So I though I'd post the fact. There are likely many plebs like me who
just want to fix their Rangies.

cheers,
Paul.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Hey All,

I can now post good news. I posted the BECM and GEMS ECU to Lee at LAB tronix
and in a 3 day turn around it was back. That's interstate here in Australia.

I put in the GEMS ECU and the BECM as per his instructions. Removed the
3 blue 60 amp fuses. Added fresh battery. Put key in ignition. Added back
fuses, front one first. Door locks clicked. Took Key and pressed fob to synch
in drivers door. Worked. Started car. Roared to life. !!! :) . My car was back.

Now I fully respect the more purist P38 Elders here who want to keep their
BECM and GEMS as intended by Land Rover. But for poverty stricken pleb's
with seemingly thousands of kids who also love their P38's, this reprogramming
of the computers is a Godsend. Thankyou to Lee and everyone here for your
help.

cheers,
Paul.
 

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Congratulations!
May it never let you down again.
It is also my wish not to start any kind of argument, but these things span 8 years, 2 companys and a bunch of markets, so different users may have different "truths"

Just my 2 cents from personnel experience with the becm(s) from an 2002 and an 2000, NAS. Both Bosch.
Yes, if you get a key code lockout "Push button on Fob" situation, and have a fob, an EKA code, and / or good microswitches in the door lock, you can get out of it and drive away.
HOWEVER, if you fiddle with it, do the code wrong, read bad info about disconnecting the battery with it alarmed, and generally fuss with it to try to get it going, which is, of course just what someone trying to steal it would do, It will indeed go into an "Lock down" state which requires removal and physical intervention on the board on the "other side" of the processor that has locked it out. In this lock down state, it will not communicate with a Nano or Faultmate. I understand, that Testbook ~may~ enable unlocking without removal, but as no one seems to have one at home, I could not confirm.
Possibly Lee is correct in that Gems programming code Or maybe Aust. Spec cars do not have this annoying feature?
I can assure you it does exist in an NAS 02 Bosch Becm.
Drive on!
 
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