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Hi,

After a battery change mishap in my 1995 P38,

my engine is immobilized due to Key Fob can't sync. I don't have an EKA code.
Contacted customer care in Australia who contacted UK, who said :
"Regarding your EKA code request, from the VIN details received,
due to the age of the vehicle, there is no EKA code for your 1995 Range Rover."


Has anyone overcome this problem before?
What do I do to start my car ?

any help desperately appreciated.

cheers,
Paul.
 

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What does it show on the dash? ENGINE DISABLED I presume?

If the EKA is turned off on your vehicle then you should just be able to lock/unlock it with the key in the drivers door and it *should* turn off immobiliser/alarm and away you go.

Since that's not working, and the key won't sync, then I think it's worth checking out the drivers door latch. The microswitches are known for failing, and if the Key switch is intermittent/faulty then it will not recognise that the vehicle is being unlocked with the key (it would just think that it's being locked/unlocked with the sill lock button inside the vehicle, which doesn't set the alarm or anything like that).

In the 'sticky' posts in the P38 forum, there's a thread there with "Door Latch Tests" which has a downloadable pdf that I wrote up a few years ago to aid in the diagnosing of bad microswitches in the door latches.

I'd give that a shot, as without the fob being synced, you are relying on the latch/microswitches to work to tell the BECM/vehicle what to do. If one of those is faulty or intermittent, then it causes all number of headaches.

Even if they all check out as OK, then at least you know what state things are in and we can go from there...

Hope this helps,
Marty
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Marty.

So you think that if I don't have an EKA code then that means that I don't NEED one to start the car?
( as it could be a micro switch problem ) Please confirm.

Also your PDF.
stuff in there without explanation.
what is CDL?
what is the outstation?

thanks,
Paul.
 

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If it never had an EKA code, then chances are the EKA option in the BECM is disabled, and no, you shouldn't need one to start the car.

CDL - Central Door Locking. In the microswitches, the CDL switch tells the BECM if the door is locked or unlocked. Door Ajar switch tells the BECM if the door is open or closed. Key switch tells BECM if key is centered in the lock or turned.
Between the CDL and Key switches the BECM can tell if the door is locked or unlocked, and also if it is then locked or unlocked from inside the vehicle (just the CDL switch changing state) or by using the key in the door (CDL switch AND key switch changing state).

In the case of the EKA being disabled, then unlocking the vehicle with the key in the door should just turn off the alarm/immobiliser and allow starting - but it has to have recognised that it has been unlocked with the key. So if the key switch has failed, then all it sees is the door being locked/unlocked with the CDL switch - which is what would happen if you were to sit in the vehicle and manually lock or unlock with the sill lock button on the door card. Locking/Unlocking with just the sill lock button doesn't set/disarm the alarm or immobiliser.

As the switches are operated by linkages in the latch itself, even if you turn the key and lock/unlock the door, the CDL switch will still change state, so the vehicle just thinks it's been locked/unlocked internally. Locking/unlocking with the key also triggers the key switch to tell the vehicle that the key has been used. The key switch is also used in the syncing of the remote fob to the vehicle - so if that is faulty, then you won't be able to sync the remote back up either.

Outstation is the link between the door and the BECM. It talks to the BECM over a serial link - so only uses 4 wires for all of the door functions, rather than a single wire for everything.
The outstation is the black box in the door that has "DOOR OUTSTATION" printed on the sticker.

Worst case.. the BECM could have gone into a lockout mode, which needs special diagnostics to reset - but it would be unusual for that to happen just from changing the battery. A faulty door latch is far more common!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok Excellent, thankyou for the explanations.

It's at my mechanics. Otherwise I would check the switches.
I spoke to him. Told him all about you. He doesn't want to check
the switches as he reckons the BECM does seem to have gone
into lockout mode as he has tried talking to it with diagnostic
tools etc. I think.

He wants to disconnect the BECM and see if it resets.
I reckon he should check the micro switch. sigh...

What do you think of his disconnect BECM idea?

cheers,
Paul.
 

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It is possible for the BECM to go into an EKA lockout mode, yes - and usually on vehicles with an EKA, you would then enter that (through the door latch, or on later vehicles it can be done with diagnostics). However, on a vehicle where the EKA has been disabled, if it is registering an 'EKA Lockout' in the BECM, then normally, unlocking the vehicle with the key will disarm it - as the vehicle then recognises that there isn't an EKA, so just goes straight to unlocking/disarming, rather than waiting for the code to be entered. But again, this relies on the door latch being operable, as it uses the microswitches to detect the key being turned. In the case of having an EKA, you would enter the digits via turning the key to lock and unlock to enter it, and then after the last digit is entered, there is one final turn to 'Unlock' which, if the code is correct, unlocks all the doors and disarms the alarm, allows the car to be started etc.

On a vehicle with no EKA, then effectively all the turning of the key to enter digits is bypassed, and unlocking the vehicle with the key is treated as the final 'unlock' turn in the EKA procedure, and the vehicle should just unlock/disarm/allow starting.

If that isn't happening (which it obviously isn't!) then EITHER there is an issue with the door latch, preventing the correct signals from being passed onto the BECM to tell it what to do. Or if you are really unlucky, the BECM has gone into an alarm lockout, which requires specialist diagnostics to connect directly to the BECM CPU and reset the lockout. I'm not sure who (if anyone) in Australia has the required diagnostics to be able to do this resetting though. I have the tools to do it, but am based in the UK (though have done BECM resets for people in the US/Canada and as far away as New Zealand before), and happy to do it if required - I would just need one of the boards out of the BECM shipped over (rather than the whole thing - saves a tonne on postage!).

But as the BECM resetting is more involved, and requires specialist equipment, that's why I suggest testing the door latch switches first, as they are items that do get worn out, and a lot of the time in the UK people find they have a latch/microswitch issue only when they need to use it!

Don't try and let the garage talk you into replacing the BECM at vast expense or anything like that either - if it is in a lockout, then as I say, it is resettable - and more than likely cheaper to do (even sending it to me in the UK!) than a replacement BECM, which to do properly needs reprogramming anyway. If you just swap one over, then it also comes with it's own set of headaches aswell!

Have a look at my website (in my signature) for more info on the BECM Unlocking/Resetting if you do think it could be that, or find that it IS that. But I would still check the microswitches first, as it's easy enough to do with a multimeter, and it's also free to do (ok, so the garage might charge, but if you get the vehicle back, then it's free and easy for you to do!)

Disconnecting the BECM.... I would say it's unlikely to make any difference... They can try, but if it's in an EKA lockout, then chances are it won't reset unless it recognises it's been unlocked with the key in the door. I've read that some people have gotten lucky by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery - but it is just that, getting lucky... there's no rhyme or reason as to why it should work.

Again, what message(s) come up on the dash? Is there an ENGINE DISABLED message?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
" Is there an ENGINE DISABLED message? "

YES.


- don't worry. My Mechanic is not the Land Rover dealership.
He won't suggest a new BECM. He's on our side.

Marty, THANKS heaps for all your info and replies.
I don't feel like slitting my wrists any more. :)

Will checkout your website...

Paul.
 

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I had exactly the same problem on a 96 model. You can't connect diagnostics to the BeCM when it is in immobilised state or that would defeat the object of the immobiliser. Pull the drivers door panel off, unplug the connector to the latch, ground the blue/red and green/red wires simultaneously and the central locking should fire into life and unlock all the doors. The doors will relock as soon as you disconnect the ground but unlock again as soon as you plug the connector to the latch back in. Put the key in the ignition and the message centre may well tell you that the alarm has been triggered but the engine should start. The problem with the one I was working on and, as Marty has already suggested, a failed keyswitch microswitch in the drivers door latch.
 

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Hi Marty, All,

I'm back. With info from the garage. Lots to say, but first, need to clarify
something from this post.

To be clear is your post saying there are 2 types of lockout?
1. EKA lockout. If this exists in my case I should be able to unlock it
just with the KEY IFF the microswitch is working.

2. Alarm Lockout. Needs the special diagnostics to fix.
To do this I think I have you (Marty) and a guy in NSW
here is Aus.


The report from the garage was :
- they pulled out the BECM. It wont talk to anyone.
It's completely got the sh*ts.

I am guessing I have both a micro switch problem.
(original issue not syncing)
But now also have Alarm lockout if the garage guys
can't talk to the BECM at all.

They pretty much admit to me, even though they have
been fixing Rangies for 20 years that they don't know
how to fix it. Local ULR Range Rover has said predictably:
NEW BECM Required. $5,000 GRAND to start the freakin car!

Other "people" have quoted the garage $1800 to do
"something" to the BECM.

I will read your (Marty's) and the NSW guys website info
today and decide what to do. But it looks like I need to
send the BECM or part of it to one of you guys.

Do you concur ?

Thanks, cheers,
Paul.
 

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Urgh... I was afraid you'd come back and say that!

If the BECM won't talk to anything, or it does but gives loads of garbled responses, then unfortunately it does sound like it's gone into the 'Alarm Lockout' mode, that I mentioned about above.

The good news is yes, it is recoverable, and also for a LOT less than $5000!!! and without a new BECM being required.

Check the people in NSW if they can do it and how much the charge. If they can't or are too expensive then get in touch, and if you ship the logic board over to me in the UK, I can do it there for you and send it back. I charge £100 (about $185 AU plus the return shipping, and that includes the diagnostic work and bench testing). The only downside is that it will take a bit longer with shipping there and back! I can even program in an EKA for you if you want to be able to have one.

But if the BECM is't responding to diagnostics, then it does sound like it's decided to throw a wobbly and will need to be sent off somewhere. I wouldn't pay someone / garage $1800 to do 'something' to it without you being told exactly what they'll do, as it can be very easy to mess things up if you don't know what you're doing and go swapping things around willy nilly!

Sorry to hear the outcome :(

EDIT: Just had a look at the labtronix website that do it in Australia - they look like they will be cheaper than sending it to me in the UK. Though some of the information on their BECM programming page doesn't quite make sense regarding EKA and FOB codes not being visible on an locked BECM... if they are using the SM035 module from BBS (as they mention on the page) then this information is totally accessible as you are connecting directly to the BECM CPU.

Good luck getting it sorted!
 

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I just had my Becm unlocked, and it was not alarmed.......Not going to risk it.....I just like the idea of it not being able to shut me down, as long as I have the Nano aboard.
If I had a Gems, I would get it unlocked, and sorted AND add a Mobi-lize module. Very cheap insurance to assure it will never lock you out. It may beep and whinge about being alarmed, but it will always start. I just wish there was an equivalent for Bosch, I would buy one for each of the 02's.
 

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There is absolutely no point swapping everything out, when your original BECM is recoverable for a reasonable price these days. Given that Labtronix charge just under $200AU to reset the lockout - or for people in the UK I charge about £100 - spending double that on a complete set makes little sense to me.

Changing everything over just messes things up with programming, VIN numbers don't match, and you can end up putting a load more miles (or kms) on your vehicle if you aren't careful.

'Unlocking' the BECM doesn't necessarily mean it's going to prevent you getting an alarm lockout, EKA lockout, or whatever. All the 'Unlocking' does (so it shows up as 'Unlocked' in a Nanocom for example) is allow the EKA/Fob codes, VIN etc to be read and changed with OBD diagnostic tools. They were all locked from the factory to stop this from being tampered with by accident with someone/dealer with standard diagnostics.

I've seen plenty of BECM's in an 'alarmed' state that have previously been 'unlocked'. Resetting the 'Alarm Lockout' or 'EKA Lockout' is often referred to as 'Unlocking' but in my mind it shouldn't really - it is 'resetting the lockouts'. In normal life, there is no advantage to having an 'unlocked' BECM. Look after the charging system, so it doesn't go flat when locked and alarmed... Make sure the door latch microswitches are all working OK, and between them, you will have the least possible chance of encountering any form of 'lockout'

Later BECMs (PAM V36 and above) can be 'Disarmed' by using diagnostics and entering the EKA. This will work on a 'locked' or 'unlocked' BECM, and I have seen it disarm from both EKA and alarm lockouts before, depending on the circumstances - on modules which have corrupted the memory (generally the EKA, sometimes the immobiliser code) when they've gone into lockout (again usually when battery has gone flat with it locked/alarmed it seems) then sometimes even the 'Disarm' feature doesn't work, and it still needs resetting with an SM035/Direct CPU access tool.
 

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There is absolutely no point swapping everything out, when your original BECM is recoverable for a reasonable price these days. Given that Labtronix charge just under $200AU to reset the lockout - or for people in the UK I charge about £100 - spending double that on a complete set makes little sense to me.

Changing everything over just messes things up with programming, VIN numbers don't match, and you can end up putting a load more miles (or kms) on your vehicle if you aren't careful.

Absolutely spot on. Add to that the time involved, and it is not a good plan. get it unlocked locally and repair the causes (door latches, etc...)

On Becm "Preventative" unlocking:
Very good point. I had mine unlocked as a precaution, and as it had 0000 as the EKA code, I wanted that remedied as well. Totally agree that it will not prevent alarmed states from happening, however it is more likely the average user with the correct tools will be able to get going again before they mess with it so much that it needs removing and unlocking (Alarm clearing) Of course, having fully functioning well maintained door latch switches is imperative as well. and will prevent 90% of the problems.
I will say it again, however: The "Mobi-lize" for Gems works, and works well. You will not ever be immobilised by alarm issues with one installed.
Marty, you are a super Becm whiz.......How tough to build a small simple module for Bosch?
I know it uses a different type of handshake, but possibly a few parts and SMOP?
 

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The problem with doing it for Diesel and Thor P38s (Bosch ECU's) is that they have the immobiliser code stored in them, and then the BECM code that it sends is matched to that. So a 'resync' of a Diesel, or Thor P38 is a case of reading the code from the engine ECU and then programming it into the BECM for it to send.

In theory, you could make something that does that task - but you would still need to access and read the code from the engine ECU to begin with, with some form of diagnostics.
The GEMS ECU is different in the fact that the 'security relearn' on it trains the ECU to accept whatever code is next received, so as far as I know about the 'Mobi-lize' device, you instruct the GEMS ECU to relearn, and then transmits a code, so it's then getting the code from the Mobi-lize. The GEMS ECU would then send the CEL signal to the BECM to say it has a valid code, and it would allow starting. Or maybe it bypasses that bit too - I haven't looked that far into it.

If I ever get time, then in theory it would be possible to make a unit to do that for a Bosch ECU'd vehicle, but the device would have to be programmed to the code of the engine ECU prior to fitting.
 

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The Mobilize takes the Becm out of the loop entirely. No Cel response needed. Pretty slick in a small package!
So, if I am understanding you, it could be made to work if you read the ecu code with nano,or equivalent, then program the widget. Would it then stay programmed? Interesting thought.......
A Bosch version would help to add a lot of care free years to these rigs! Someone will eventually do it!
 

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Hey Marty, Bolt, All,

I spoke with Lee from Labtronix this afternoon on the phone.
He is going to put a EKA code into my BECM.
He says that with this I can even unlock the BECM if it goes into the
ALARM state. Wow. Does that sound right to you Marty?
I hope he is right. Very handy.

As it is I am up bright and early tomorrow. Down to the garage in my
Wifes car. Pick up the BECM and the GEMS ECU. I post it off to Lee.
He un locks the BECM from alarm state. Programs in an EKA. He told
me early 1995 P38's didn't have the EKA because Land Rover FORGOT !!!
to turn it on. Thus sending lots of Rangies out locked seemingly forever,
unless Lee and Marty turned up to save us all.
He will also program the GEMS ECU to NOT need a code from the BECM.
The mobilize is fine if you can't afford to ship your computers half way
around the world or you want your Buick engine to stand alone. But
otherwise you might as well get the GEMS to not need the code. Lee
also tells me that you still need to take care of the signal of OK from
GEMS to BECM. Different to what you said I think Bolt, but don't quote
me I may have got it wrong.

So the BECM and GEMS ECU come back and I install it all at the garage.
I have EKA and this can NEVER happen again. I think! As long as I check
my door micro switch. But as said apparently I can get back in even with
an alarm state BECM with just that EKA code. Marty to confirm. At the very
least IFF the alarm lock out occurs I can still start the car with switches
across for the relays to bypass the BECM. You can even drive without the
BECM !!! You still need to get the BECM going again though when home if you
want HEVAC etc.
 

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That is a great result!
I believe we installed the one on my friend's truck in NZ and got clever with the signal from the ignition switch, using it to trigger the starter relay, thus removing the Becm from the equation and eliminating the need for a separate switch. This allowed starting, however, the engine immobilised message still showed, but rest of the systems worked fine. Facts are a wee bit fuzzy as I seem to recall there were a few celebratory ales consumed.........
Your solution is far superior, as you are going to be back to normal and with a trick ECU that can't let you down.
 

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Glad you have something that will fix it.

Having an EKA won't stop the possibility of having an EKA lockout, or Alarm lockout. If you get into an Alarm Lockout, then the EKA won't fix that - it will allow you to reverse an EKA lockout. (if you get 'KEYCODE LOCKOUT' on the dash, then the EKA will sort that).

It's a very involved system, and it would take me too long to actually type out here how it all works. I don't believe the EKA was 'Forgotten' to be programmed though. When BECM's were programmed originally, they were done on a Testbook, and they didn't select individual settings to turn on and off, but the vehicle was programmed to a 'Market' (Eg UK, Australia, Europe, Gulf States) which in Testbook automatically programmed a number of the settings depending on what was obviously decided beforehand about what main options were enabled/available for the market in which the vehicle variant was being sold. the Australian market didn't have the EKA enabled - at least on early vehicles. I have BECM's at home which are form early UK spec P38's, and they have an EKA programmed in them, and the option enabled.

A GEMS vehicle WILL need some of additional wiring as the BECM controls the starter, and a BECM set to GEMS will not crank the starter if the CEL isn't lit up. Later P38's, and Diesel variations will crank over but not fire up if the immobiliser code is incorrect (as the engine ECU doesn't confirm back to the BECM that the code is OK - which is what the GEMS does on the CEL) So to get a GEMS vehicle started with the BECM in a messed up state, you will need to change the starter motor trigger from being triggered by the BECM to being triggered by POS III of the ignition switch. Not difficult to do though.
 
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