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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know where to obtain new valves for aP38 EAS valve block?
I have a leak from the 2 front valves (the front drops in about 5 minutes) I can see bubbles emanating from under the solenoid cover - not a lot but a definite leak when sprayed with soapy water.

Changing the o-rings thrice has not eliminated the problem, so the only remaining area of leakage has to be in the actual seal between the valve and its seat. There is a little rubber inset on the that seat which on my car is quite indented - I imagine that because of the engine weight in the front these have far more pressure on them than than the rear ones. Dennis at Rover Renovations only has used ones which I suppose may work but I would prefer to replace with new if possible or repair in a ore permanent way.

Any suggestions?
Thanks
 

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the only option I've found for new ones is to strip down a new block and sell it for parts, then recycle the aluminum. that would make each valve about $100.

Leakage past the seat will not cause bubbles to come out of the block, it will go into the header and out the exhaust muffler. Leakage past the valve body itself will cause bubbles, the most common problem I've seen is the thin ring on the bottom part, that compresses the thinnest oring, gets cracked and then won't seal against the thin ring. pull the solenoid off and put soapy water on the valve itself, if it's leaking out the body or between the body and the stem, the thin oring is leaking. if it's bubbling at the bottom, where it seats on the block, the large oring is leaking.
 

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i had a small leak on2 of the solenoids.
i removed the top black plastic part and stretched the spring inside a little, putting more pressure on the needle valve.
i dont know if this is applicable to your issues, but worth a shot.

martin
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'll try that, thanks!

leftlanetruckin said:
i had a small leak on2 of the solenoids.
i removed the top black plastic part and stretched the spring inside a little, putting more pressure on the needle valve.
i dont know if this is applicable to your issues, but worth a shot.

martin
 

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Discussion Starter #5
OK, so no apparent leaks from anywhere - tried stretching the spring but still dropping on front left wheel in about five minutes - when stopped at a traffic light with my foot off the brake (in neutral) I can see the car dropping and pumping up every few seconds. Otherwise the system works perfectly, but it is a bit alarming to pop into a store, come out a few minutes later and to see the car leaning precipitously down on the one corner. To prevent embarrassment I lower it before I get out!

So the leak must be internal - took apart some of my replacement valves and can noticed that the entire system is resting the weight of the vehicle on those tiny rubber seals on the valve stem and seat - quite an impressive feat to rest two and a half tons on a quarter inch piece of rubber - the rubber insert is probably the source os the leak - leaking internally so no apparent leak on the outside of the solenoid.

Does anyone have a solution to replacing the rubber or the valve stem - the depression in the seals is probably one millimeter deep - is that my leak? Dennis - do they leak there? Where else can it possible be leaking?

Am i right in surmising that the valve is always closed and the solenoid opens it to let air out or in? Otherwise it seals against the little tapered seat. Perhaps the indentation is too deep to make an effective seal? Thanks for all your suggestions - I am on a mission to get this right! Help!
 

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jacekk said:
Does anyone have a solution to replacing the rubber or the valve stem - the depression in the seals is probably one millimeter deep - is that my leak? Dennis - do they leak there? Where else can it possible be leaking?

Am i right in surmising that the valve is always closed and the solenoid opens it to let air out or in? Otherwise it seals against the little tapered seat. Perhaps the indentation is too deep to make an effective seal? Thanks for all your suggestions - I am on a mission to get this right! Help!
Yes, the valve is normally closed, but the indention is not typically an issue. after a while they'll all be indented.

there is also an inlet/outlet isolation, if one of the corners leaks by, the header will hold the air-pressure in, so each corner has 2 valve isolation. check around the non-return valve block for leaks, air is getting out somewhere. put some soapy water on the exhaust muffler, if it's leaking past the valves it will go out there and you'll get good foam from the muffler.

the LF is the bottom forward valve so not easy to swap, but you can swap the front airlines and let it rise. untill it's lop-sided it won't confuse the ECU, once lop-sided lower down to access before coming back up or you'll fault out. if it stays on the same side, it's the spring/airline. if the dropping switches sides, it's the valve.
 

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I just got new O rings from you Dennis, thank you for excellent service to resend the part since the first shipment never arrived over here.

I have replaced the old O rings, but I think I have the same problem as jacekk. My front right is dropping and I can actually hear air escape. I have found that it comes from underneath the solenoide for airline 4 that is FR. If I run the compressor to fill the tank, there is no leak, but as soon as I raise the car, it starts to leak.

I have removed the valve again and tripple checked all 4 O rings and everything looks fine. I also noticed that the valve seal looks worn on this valve, but if that would not cause the air to escape underneath the solenoide I no longer have any clue. Any suggestions what I should check next?

 

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the small lip that compresses the thin oring will sometimes crack and allow air to escape, double check that lip. I have used-spares available if needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Dennis - your help is so much appreciated, will check it out this weekend.

I looked at the exhaust filter - with the engine off there is a very small amount of bubbling in the middle of the filter - certainly not enough to drain the whole bag in a couple of minutes, but perhaps it is accumulative - a bunch of little leaks having a larger effect. Reading all the posts it certainly seems as if that is a possibility. As you stated it really is not rocket science - basically a very simple design and operation, and certainly I have found that changing my airbags, compressor and o rings all at once has made a huge difference (I had changed them all repeatedly at different times - it now operates like it should (Except for the leaking corner). Your suggestion of swapping the airlines is brilliant - why didn't I think of that? I'll try it asap and let you know how it works.

The puzzler here is that I bought a spare valve block and the dropping front has been an issue since the beginning, with either valve block and with the valves swapped backed and forth (but always to the same position) - so if the falling front wheels is what started this whole problem of mine, and it continued on a 'new' valve block, and tnfno above has the same problem, then it it must be a common issue. Certainly, as you say, all the problems can be ascribed to several factors, leaks, leaks and more leaks with the occasional electric problem from damaged sensors. There is no more to the system than that right? Then how come it has taken me so long to find this darned leak :-( , Could it be that one of the new bags is leaking? I can't see a leak right now - is the outer skin of the Genll Arnott an integral part of the system - does the sealing strap actually prevent leaks or is it just holding the inner workings together?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Exactly my symptoms!
tnfno said:
I just got new O rings from you Dennis, thank you for excellent service to resend the part since the first shipment never arrived over here.

I have replaced the old O rings, but I think I have the same problem as jacekk. My front right is dropping and I can actually hear air escape. I have found that it comes from underneath the solenoide for airline 4 that is FR. If I run the compressor to fill the tank, there is no leak, but as soon as I raise the car, it starts to leak.

I have removed the valve again and tripple checked all 4 O rings and everything looks fine. I also noticed that the valve seal looks worn on this valve, but if that would not cause the air to escape underneath the solenoide I no longer have any clue. Any suggestions what I should check next?

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Simply put, why is it the front that always seems to go down?

shupack said:
the small lip that compresses the thin oring will sometimes crack and allow air to escape, double check that lip. I have used-spares available if needed.
 

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The metal band on the genii and iii's seals the bladder to the top cap, it's possible the leak is there, and somewhat common on the earlier springs ( fixed with a production change).

I believe it's typically the front that leaks because they get more abuse. The engine weight means more pressure, they get engine heat, and the front seems to take bumps harder than the rear.
 

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shupack said:
The metal band on the gen.... iii's seals the bladder to the top cap, it's possible the leak is there, and somewhat common on the earlier springs ( fixed with a production change).
Hi Dennis, what do I check out to see if I've got an old/new design/'production change'?
 

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there's a bar-code sticker on the spring somewhere with a date, I believe it was aug 08 that they made the change, but I'm not positive. The issues show up pretty quickly typically. if you're not leaking leave it be.
 

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A little update, hope someone can make sense of it...

I tpook apart and checked the leaking valve again, everything looks just fine, the new orings are good, nothing cracked or bent. But, the air still comes out underneath the solenoide and around the electrical cable that goes into the solenoide.

So, to try to search for the problem, I replaced the valve with the one next to it. They both have the same product number and looks 100% identical. Result ? No more leaks. Very good, but I cannot understand why. I guess the other position is for one of the springs back, can it be that thay have lower pressure?

Now FR does not sink anymore and the EAS changes quickly between all positions. But I still have a problem; the compressor runs very frequently, almost constantly. The compressor is brand new so it should be able to give enough pressure. When the car is parked on a flat garage floor I can hear the solenoids working almost constantly, that cannot be correct? During the EAS faults last week I got several times a sensor fault on the FR wheel (same as the leaking solenoide). Now there is no more errors, but can there still be a problem with this sensor that makes the EAS adjust this wheel constantly? Any other suggestions on why it seems to work indefinitely to level the car?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Indeed there was a microscopic crack - had to use a magnifying glass to find it. Replaced it with one of my spare valves and presto - the EAS is whole again, rising majestically like the phoenix. It really amazes me how the smallest leak will screw up the whole system and particularly a combination of small leaks, (which I think is the issue with our friend below).

Many many thanks all your help and patience Dennis - you are truly the king of EAS!
Now if only we could source those valves and replace all our old valves with new!

shupack said:
the small lip that compresses the thin oring will sometimes crack and allow air to escape, double check that lip. I have used-spares available if needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Having just fixed my EAS after 18 months of struggling I know how you feel.
As Dennis points out - it really is not rocket science, although for 18 months it was beating me.

If your compressor is running it is because you have a leak n the system.
If it is constantly leveling itself it is because you have a leak in the system.

Try to isolate the problem.
Mine was a whole lot of little leaks which by themselves didn't seem to amount to much but together let the whole system down.
Leave your door or tailgate open to disable the computer - if the car goes down you have a physical problem.
If it doesn't, you have an electrical problem (unlikely, unless you damaged it intentionally by driving through a river or something!).

I changed my bags, valve-block, O-rings and compressor and it was still leaking because at any given time one of the other elements was failing Even new air bags only 2 years old were leaking right at the top where you cannot really see them join the pistons. I was always expecting a hiss or leak like a puncture in a tyre - it is not like that at all - my car was collapsing in 4-5 minutes and yet the bubbles coming from soapy water spray were tiny little things hardly noticeable.

If the FR is constantly adjusting it is leaking - look right at the top where the bladder joins the mount. Remember look for small leaks that don't seem important - not like an air pressure hose at a gas station. Persevere - it is very simple - find the leak and repair it and your car will majestically rise and stay up - just like magic.





tnfno said:
A little update, hope someone can make sense of it...

I tpook apart and checked the leaking valve again, everything looks just fine, the new orings are good, nothing cracked or bent. But, the air still comes out underneath the solenoide and around the electrical cable that goes into the solenoide.

So, to try to search for the problem, I replaced the valve with the one next to it. They both have the same product number and looks 100% identical. Result ? No more leaks. Very good, but I cannot understand why. I guess the other position is for one of the springs back, can it be that thay have lower pressure?

Now FR does not sink anymore and the EAS changes quickly between all positions. But I still have a problem; the compressor runs very frequently, almost constantly. The compressor is brand new so it should be able to give enough pressure. When the car is parked on a flat garage floor I can hear the solenoids working almost constantly, that cannot be correct? During the EAS faults last week I got several times a sensor fault on the FR wheel (same as the leaking solenoide). Now there is no more errors, but can there still be a problem with this sensor that makes the EAS adjust this wheel constantly? Any other suggestions on why it seems to work indefinitely to level the car?
 

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That is probably a very good idea since I know they are a bit off, another project for this evening. I did not realize that it could lead to frequent adjustments, thought they would just give the wrong height when they where off calibration.

I have also tried to fix the rubber on the valves with Sikaflex and it seems to work very well. I took away loose parts and cleaned with thinner and applied Sikaflex to the edge of the valve by scraping off the edge with a knife. It looks perfect and my experience with Sicaflex in the boat is that it sticks very well (will not come off your hands until you loose a layer of skin..) and remain flexible also when cold. Time will tell if it lasts...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Keep us posted if it lasts!

tnfno said:
That is probably a very good idea since I know they are a bit off, another project for this evening. I did not realize that it could lead to frequent adjustments, thought they would just give the wrong height when they where off calibration.

I have also tried to fix the rubber on the valves with Sikaflex and it seems to work very well. I took away loose parts and cleaned with thinner and applied Sikaflex to the edge of the valve by scraping off the edge with a knife. It looks perfect and my experience with Sicaflex in the boat is that it sticks very well (will not come off your hands until you loose a layer of skin..) and remain flexible also when cold. Time will tell if it lasts...
 
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