Sounds electrical to me. What's the vehicles voltage supply measure? You might want to go through the electrical system check sticky at the top of this forum list. Poor voltage to these ECU's will loose all kinds of gremlins. Barring that, I'd say, even thoough it was reported to have been replaced, your driver module may be suspect. Can you get someone with Rovacm,Testbook, etc. to look at the live data and see what the ECU is trying to command vs what the vehicle's actually doing? May help, not sure.
EAS, tried everything still Fidgety
Ok, I'm starting to get frustrated with my EAS.
Further to my Wandering/Veering thread, I think it isn't helped by the EAS.
Somtimes the car will want to go right, other times left, or sometimes it is happy going straight. When stationary and parked the car will always be adjusting itself. Its never happy to just sit there. Sometimes it will do the traffic light dance. Othertimes you can be driving along the road and feel the car drop a corner then fix it back up.
What has been done:
- Receipts from Previous owner for new Valve Block, Compressor and Driver unit
- Four new height sensors
- Front bags are 3 years old
- Rear bags are 6 months old.
- Several Calibrations
- Car stays up for 2 days without timer
- Levels down with timer
- Checked Non-Return valves, all look good
- Diaphram looks good
- Pig tail method works well
I'm now going through RAVE to check connectors. For some reason I appear to be getting only 11.9V at pin one on the ECU connector.
ANy more Ideas? Could the ECU have gone bad?
Stu
Further to my Wandering/Veering thread, I think it isn't helped by the EAS.
Somtimes the car will want to go right, other times left, or sometimes it is happy going straight. When stationary and parked the car will always be adjusting itself. Its never happy to just sit there. Sometimes it will do the traffic light dance. Othertimes you can be driving along the road and feel the car drop a corner then fix it back up.
What has been done:
- Receipts from Previous owner for new Valve Block, Compressor and Driver unit
- Four new height sensors
- Front bags are 3 years old
- Rear bags are 6 months old.
- Several Calibrations
- Car stays up for 2 days without timer
- Levels down with timer
- Checked Non-Return valves, all look good
- Diaphram looks good
- Pig tail method works well
I'm now going through RAVE to check connectors. For some reason I appear to be getting only 11.9V at pin one on the ECU connector.
ANy more Ideas? Could the ECU have gone bad?
Stu
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Ok, I did a live data record of my EAS system over 8 minutes. Then plotted the results in excel. The files are below. If you notice at the start, there appears to be a blip where the compressor cycles for 2 seconds, even though the pressure switch isn't closed???
I'll post the electrical sticky.
Stu
I'll post the electrical sticky.
Stu
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I did this test on wednesday, before results are in black, after in red. Basically I cleaned all terminals and installed a new earth cable to the alternator, and an extra alternator positive directly to the battery.
1. Battery Voltage Across Battery Terminals before starting any tests, no loads on__12.2__11.43_______
2. Engine off, all accessories on for 30 seconds, then off. What voltage _12.0 11.43_____
3. Voltage across battery at idle (no electrical load) _13.6 13.8___________
4. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (no electrical load) _13.6 13.9_______
5. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (everything electrical switched on) _13.2 13.6________
6. Voltage at ALTERNATOR at 2000rpm (everything switched on)__13.6 13.8_________________
7. Voltage drop between alternator body and battery negative (YES negative). Measure at max electrical load and 2000rpm _200mv 63.5mv_____________ (millivolts please)
8. Voltage drop between alternator positive and battery positive. 2000rpm, max electrical load _.64V 221mv____________
9. Check Voltage drop from Battery Negative terminal to 1st groundpoint on vehicle_5mv 21.1mv_____________
10. Check voltage drop from 1st ground point to block_150mv 26mv_________
11. Check voltage drop from Alternator Housing to block__2.0mv 0.3mv_______
Cheers
Stu
1. Battery Voltage Across Battery Terminals before starting any tests, no loads on__12.2__11.43_______
2. Engine off, all accessories on for 30 seconds, then off. What voltage _12.0 11.43_____
3. Voltage across battery at idle (no electrical load) _13.6 13.8___________
4. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (no electrical load) _13.6 13.9_______
5. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (everything electrical switched on) _13.2 13.6________
6. Voltage at ALTERNATOR at 2000rpm (everything switched on)__13.6 13.8_________________
7. Voltage drop between alternator body and battery negative (YES negative). Measure at max electrical load and 2000rpm _200mv 63.5mv_____________ (millivolts please)
8. Voltage drop between alternator positive and battery positive. 2000rpm, max electrical load _.64V 221mv____________
9. Check Voltage drop from Battery Negative terminal to 1st groundpoint on vehicle_5mv 21.1mv_____________
10. Check voltage drop from 1st ground point to block_150mv 26mv_________
11. Check voltage drop from Alternator Housing to block__2.0mv 0.3mv_______
Cheers
Stu
Compressor's running a lot? If so, check the vent outlet filter on the block and see if it isn't blowing out air while the compressor's running. One of the check valves may be bad? I had one go with similar results after a rebuild. Sorry to be guessing, but from your charts the only thing standing out is the compressor run time. :think:
Wandering + goofy EAS = worn out bushings, especially since you've tried everything else.
I have done everything, including:shupack said:Wandering + goofy EAS = worn out bushings, especially since you've tried everything else.
- Radius Arm bushes (axle and chassis ends)
- Shocks
- Steering Damper
- Front and Rear panhard bushes
I haven't touched the rear trailing arms though. Maybe I need to try another driver pack.
Stu
Gday Stubbe,
Have you done a comparison with a known good car, Whats the front diff like, excess backlash maybe your colprit? AMV give no idea? I compared my Bros with mine to check Viscous coupling only differance was my front diff was clunky ,lot more backlash noted wine ,and whoo whoo when turning steering wheel from side to sid ,low speed and high speed?
Have you done a comparison with a known good car, Whats the front diff like, excess backlash maybe your colprit? AMV give no idea? I compared my Bros with mine to check Viscous coupling only differance was my front diff was clunky ,lot more backlash noted wine ,and whoo whoo when turning steering wheel from side to sid ,low speed and high speed?
I'm planning on sending it to AMV shortly, but wanted to get the EAS right first so they can do an alignment. I'm wondering whether somebody has over tightened the steering box. It feels like the drag link needs alignment too. The steering box has started to leak around the top.
According to RAVE the driver pack has nothing to do with the Air Compressor, as its switched from the relay in the engine fuse box and triggered by the computer.
Stu
According to RAVE the driver pack has nothing to do with the Air Compressor, as its switched from the relay in the engine fuse box and triggered by the computer.
Stu
Hey stubee,
Re' the compressor running a lot:
Sounds like you have done a lot of diagnostics so far, but mainly electrical.
How about splicing in a pressure gauge and seeing what the actual resevoir pressure is doing as well.
Cheers,
Keijo
Re' the compressor running a lot:
Sounds like you have done a lot of diagnostics so far, but mainly electrical.
How about splicing in a pressure gauge and seeing what the actual resevoir pressure is doing as well.
Cheers,
Keijo
I had a pressure guage on a few months ago, and it was reading fine. I had trouble sealing it. I will try and get some new fittings and connect it back up. But if you look at the graphs the compressor seems to be running when the pressure switch is not requesting hit.
There is no reason as to why the compressor is cycling so much.
Stu
There is no reason as to why the compressor is cycling so much.
Stu
Stu,
Yes I can see that short pulse of running without the pressure switch, but without really knowing how your recorder was set up, it's difficult to say if that was real or just a noise blip.
There are also a lot of state changes in other signals, and unless you can give a timeline of what ensued during the recording it's difficult to make sense of them.
If not much was done during the test, ie, the car just sat there, then it appears you have some serious signal issues, most probably caused by a bad earth in the ECU input signals circuits.
I know you have checked the main earths but there is a swag of signal earth connections also.
If you have RAVE, and it sounds like you do, I would suggest locating each and every relevant signal earth connection and checking for tightness and security. I can vouch personally for the fact that one loose signal earth connection can cause a range of confusing symptoms.
Good luck and keep chipping away.
It will feel so good when you finally nail it.
Cheers
Yes I can see that short pulse of running without the pressure switch, but without really knowing how your recorder was set up, it's difficult to say if that was real or just a noise blip.
There are also a lot of state changes in other signals, and unless you can give a timeline of what ensued during the recording it's difficult to make sense of them.
If not much was done during the test, ie, the car just sat there, then it appears you have some serious signal issues, most probably caused by a bad earth in the ECU input signals circuits.
I know you have checked the main earths but there is a swag of signal earth connections also.
If you have RAVE, and it sounds like you do, I would suggest locating each and every relevant signal earth connection and checking for tightness and security. I can vouch personally for the fact that one loose signal earth connection can cause a range of confusing symptoms.
Good luck and keep chipping away.
It will feel so good when you finally nail it.
Cheers
A mate of mine who rebuilds valveblocks for most of the dealers and has Rovacom etc, has sussed both my bros and mine EAS opperation a year ago ,when we turn of the car the compressor keeps going for a short time 5 to 8 sec , not all the time he said it was not normal hadn't see or heard of it before ,since both cars did it i never thought it as a problem .Is this normal and Y? :think: :?:
Regards Graeme
Regards Graeme
Just so you know
Details for the Data Logging:
Equipment
- Faultmate MSV2
- Connected by Serial to USB Adapter
- Output to CSV file
- CSV file imported into excel then modified to express graphically
Vehicle
- Stationary
- Engine Idling in Park
- Cycled through height setting approx 2 minutes as seen on graphs of Height Readings
Just finished going through RAVE and have compiled a list of earths to do tomorrow:
E148 - LH Rear of Engine
E167 - RH Rear of Engine Compartment
E252 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
E154 - LF Front of Engine Compartment (already checked)
E621 - Beneath RH Front Seat behind BeCM (already checked)
E367 - LH Side of Luggage Compartment
E328 - RH Side of Luggage Compartment on Wheel Well
E322 - (As Above)
E254 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
I'll see what happens tomorrow. Its meant to be 43degrees C here tomorrow, so union rules are that I go home when it hits 35. Don't know that I want to be crawling around a hot car in a steel shed though. :x
Wish me luck
Stu
Details for the Data Logging:
Equipment
- Faultmate MSV2
- Connected by Serial to USB Adapter
- Output to CSV file
- CSV file imported into excel then modified to express graphically
Vehicle
- Stationary
- Engine Idling in Park
- Cycled through height setting approx 2 minutes as seen on graphs of Height Readings
Just finished going through RAVE and have compiled a list of earths to do tomorrow:
E148 - LH Rear of Engine
E167 - RH Rear of Engine Compartment
E252 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
E154 - LF Front of Engine Compartment (already checked)
E621 - Beneath RH Front Seat behind BeCM (already checked)
E367 - LH Side of Luggage Compartment
E328 - RH Side of Luggage Compartment on Wheel Well
E322 - (As Above)
E254 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
I'll see what happens tomorrow. Its meant to be 43degrees C here tomorrow, so union rules are that I go home when it hits 35. Don't know that I want to be crawling around a hot car in a steel shed though. :x
Wish me luck
Stu
Thanks for the data Stu,
The fact that your data has had so much processing makes it difficult to get very precise timing from the traces but it’s better than no traces at all mate.
But the crux of the matter is that basically the logic in the traces does not really make much sense.
Looking more closely at your traces, the following things stand out:
The front is only ever commanded to rise, never to drop, as noted by the front solenoids being co-incident with the inlet valve operation only. If that were in fact the case you would have serious trouble stepping into your car by now. It must be lowering at some point.
The thing in the traces is the fact that most of the inlet valve commands are immediately followed by the exhaust valve command.
The exhaust valve operates without any of the air spring solenoids being operated. That just should not happen.
The exhaust valve should operate co-incidentally with at least one air spring valve, and I suspect that is actually the case, and this is where the front drops, but for some reason your logger does not show it.
Maybe just double check if the front does in fact fall in the cycle without valve operation by using a marked stick against the wheel arch for example.
If it does the there is a leak somewhere, but the fact that it can hold level for two days without the timer would seem to rule this out.
So, faulty or missing data to/from ECU or to your data logger!
That still begs the question though, why would the raise command be immediately followed by a lower command?
The only things I can think of are that the signal from the height transducers is not linear, or that it is fluctuating slightly.
ie, bad connections, bad earths, poor voltage regulation.
BTW your no load battery volts at 11.43 looks too low, much too low in fact.
Maybe time to replace battery as well.
Keep at it chum and good luck again.
Cheers,
Keijo
The fact that your data has had so much processing makes it difficult to get very precise timing from the traces but it’s better than no traces at all mate.
But the crux of the matter is that basically the logic in the traces does not really make much sense.
Looking more closely at your traces, the following things stand out:
The front is only ever commanded to rise, never to drop, as noted by the front solenoids being co-incident with the inlet valve operation only. If that were in fact the case you would have serious trouble stepping into your car by now. It must be lowering at some point.
The thing in the traces is the fact that most of the inlet valve commands are immediately followed by the exhaust valve command.
The exhaust valve operates without any of the air spring solenoids being operated. That just should not happen.
The exhaust valve should operate co-incidentally with at least one air spring valve, and I suspect that is actually the case, and this is where the front drops, but for some reason your logger does not show it.
Maybe just double check if the front does in fact fall in the cycle without valve operation by using a marked stick against the wheel arch for example.
If it does the there is a leak somewhere, but the fact that it can hold level for two days without the timer would seem to rule this out.
So, faulty or missing data to/from ECU or to your data logger!
That still begs the question though, why would the raise command be immediately followed by a lower command?
The only things I can think of are that the signal from the height transducers is not linear, or that it is fluctuating slightly.
ie, bad connections, bad earths, poor voltage regulation.
BTW your no load battery volts at 11.43 looks too low, much too low in fact.
Maybe time to replace battery as well.
Keep at it chum and good luck again.
Cheers,
Keijo
BTW Stu,
Spent all my time looking at the second chart only.
Were both charts plotted simultaneously or at different times?
Thanks,
Keijo
Spent all my time looking at the second chart only.
Were both charts plotted simultaneously or at different times?
Thanks,
Keijo
Stu, i fitted an extra earth cable from battery negitive to chassis and from there to alternator , left the small earth cable . My results are in the sticky before it got padlocked,81stubee said:I did this test on wednesday, before results are in black, after in red. Basically I cleaned all terminals and installed a new earth cable to the alternator, and an extra alternator positive directly to the battery.
1. Battery Voltage Across Battery Terminals before starting any tests, no loads on__12.2__11.43_______
2. Engine off, all accessories on for 30 seconds, then off. What voltage _12.0 11.43_____
3. Voltage across battery at idle (no electrical load) _13.6 13.8___________
4. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (no electrical load) _13.6 13.9_______
5. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (everything electrical switched on) _13.2 13.6________
6. Voltage at ALTERNATOR at 2000rpm (everything switched on)__13.6 13.8_________________
7. Voltage drop between alternator body and battery negative (YES negative). Measure at max electrical load and 2000rpm _200mv 63.5mv_____________ (millivolts please)
8. Voltage drop between alternator positive and battery positive. 2000rpm, max electrical load _.64V 221mv____________
9. Check Voltage drop from Battery Negative terminal to 1st groundpoint on vehicle_5mv 21.1mv_____________
10. Check voltage drop from 1st ground point to block_150mv 26mv_________
11. Check voltage drop from Alternator Housing to block__2.0mv 0.3mv_______
Cheers
Stu
Regards Graeme
Well I managed to get out to have a play today.
I checked and cleaned some more earth's today:
E148 - LH Rear of Engine (Done)
E167 - RH Rear of Engine Compartment (Done)
E252 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
E154 - LF Front of Engine Compartment (already checked)
E621 - Beneath RH Front Seat behind BeCM (already checked)
E367 - LH Side of Luggage Compartment
E328 - RH Side of Luggage Compartment on Wheel Well
E322 - (As Above)
E254 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
Got some fittings and re-connected my Pressure Guage.
The result..... Nothing zilch, didley squat, sill the same rise, pump, lower, pump off, rise pump on....
The Air pressure seems to be staying pretty constant, does couple of flickers every time the valves raise, but more or less stays between 110 to 150PSI. The compressor cuts off at approx 145PSI.
I need some more Ideas.
Stu
I checked and cleaned some more earth's today:
E148 - LH Rear of Engine (Done)
E167 - RH Rear of Engine Compartment (Done)
E252 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
E154 - LF Front of Engine Compartment (already checked)
E621 - Beneath RH Front Seat behind BeCM (already checked)
E367 - LH Side of Luggage Compartment
E328 - RH Side of Luggage Compartment on Wheel Well
E322 - (As Above)
E254 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
Got some fittings and re-connected my Pressure Guage.
The result..... Nothing zilch, didley squat, sill the same rise, pump, lower, pump off, rise pump on....
The Air pressure seems to be staying pretty constant, does couple of flickers every time the valves raise, but more or less stays between 110 to 150PSI. The compressor cuts off at approx 145PSI.
I need some more Ideas.
Stu
Both charts have been plotted simultaneously. I think the refresh rate of the Faultmate is quite slow, so I may be missing some information. Anyway I've attached the raw data.Keijo said:BTW Stu,
Spent all my time looking at the second chart only.
Were both charts plotted simultaneously or at different times?
Thanks,
Keijo
Thanks anyone for your help, this is really starting to do my head in.
Stu
Attachments
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81stubee said:Well I managed to get out to have a play today.
I checked and cleaned some more earth's today:
E148 - LH Rear of Engine (Done)
E167 - RH Rear of Engine Compartment (Done)
E252 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
E154 - LF Front of Engine Compartment (already checked)
E621 - Beneath RH Front Seat behind BeCM (already checked)
E367 - LH Side of Luggage Compartment
E328 - RH Side of Luggage Compartment on Wheel Well
E322 - (As Above)
E254 - Behind RH Footwell Trim Panel (already checked)
Got some fittings and re-connected my Pressure Guage.
Stu,
Have you done the earths near the fuse box horn also the earths under the fuse box itself, Has the fuse box been replace recomended every 5 years any burned relays or burnt terminials:?:
Have you compared my figures to yours .Electricial test as per Keijo post your battery voltage looks suss so get battery load tested and have you leaned battery terminials ,and fitted the extra earth strap from chassis to alternator? Leave old ones there ,Thats the figures i got after my fit and cleaned earth straps ,refitted with vasalene and sealed with CRC Battery terminial sealer
The result..... Nothing zilch, didley squat, sill the same rise, pump, lower, pump off, rise pump on....
The Air pressure seems to be staying pretty constant, does couple of flickers every time the valves raise, but more or less stays between 110 to 150PSI. The compressor cuts off at approx 145PSI.
I need some more Ideas.
Stu
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
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