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EAS Issue

3678 Views 24 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  viperover, 
L
All,

I just got finished reading the sticky. Surprise surprise, I could not find a solution to my problem. This could very well be because I have worse reading comprehension skills than my 4 year old daughter.

Anyway, I have a problem. I have a feeling that the solution to this problem is pretty straight forward. However, I wanted to see if I could dig up any knowledge and/or sympathy.

I have a 2002 P38 with just under 80K miles on it. We have owned it for 14 months. The EAS worked fine until about 3 weeks ago.

We always put the P38 in access mode when we get home because it is our family car and our kids can get in and out of it more easily if it is in this mode. One day it wouldn't come up to standard ride height like it usually did. Come to find out, it would eventually get up to the proper height. It has become a regular problem. As a precautionary measure, we have placed the EAS in inhibit mode. However, when the P38 is turned off, it sometimes plunks itself down to the bumpers / Access Mode.


Here is a sample sequence of events that happened recently:

Sunday, at the gas station and on clearly level ground, I turned the car off and it just immediately shot down to Access Mode when I pressed the gas fill door button. This is the only time such a thing has happened.

Monday - It seems that we are on uneven ground when it moves down to the bumpers most other times. This would suggest that the Auto-Level dance occurs. I am not sold on this, though. We were in the mountains earlier this week and I intentionally parked the car in an uneven space. I came out the next morning and the car wasn't level, but it certainly wasn't at the bumpers. The wheels were all at different heights.

Wednesday - my wife was parked in a space that put the P38 on an even incline. It had dropped to the bumpers. I did not see how it occurred.


I'd been researching the issue prior to this sequence of events:

- In our level garage, I have left it overnight with the door opened. I have seen no problems. The wheel heights have stayed at approximately 19 inches from center of wheel to top of well.

- I have, on multiple occasions, sprayed everywhere I can imagine with soapy water and watched for leaks while the EAS was filling up. I watched RSW Solutions' diagnostic videos for this one. Thanks for the help! I have not found any evidence of leakage on the 7 points I have sprayed.

- I have found what I think is a telling problem. In filling up my tank (running P38 with door opened), I have found that it takes almost an hour to fill the thing up. This concerns me. Keep in mind that the tank may have been totally empty.

- Inspected the relay and found no evidence of an issue.

- Inspected all four air bags and found that they may actually have been replaced prior to our acquiring the vehicle. They look great.


What I am doing now (It is the same Wednesday from the aforementioned sequence of events):

I finally got the P38 back up to normal ride height. Subsequently, I filled the tank up again. It took about 5 minutes. I now have it in the garage with the door open. All wheels are at 19 inches. I am going to measure again, tomorrow. Keep in mind that it is in our level garage. Inhibit switch is still on.


I know that, eventually, our Rangie will drop down to the bumpers inexplicably. I will then have to run the car for an hour in order for the car to rise to normal height. I would like to stop this cycle while still being able to enjoy the EAS. I do not want to bypass auto-level and/or EAS compressor. I am thankful for the knowledge that I am always able to glean from this site. I apologize if this is a repeat complaint. If so, please point me to the applicable thread.


Thank you!
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S
#1, worn out compressor. Dropping to access every time you stop, while within the original design will significantly shorten the life of the compressor. 1 hour to fill the tank is way too long, should be about 10-15 minutes with an OK compressor, 7-10 with a fresh comp.

dropping down that quickly is a function of the self leveling, if there are no leaks (possible with only 80k) then your height sensors need re-calibrated. fairly easy with Storey's software and not an un-common need.
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kmagnuss
Also, don't forget to spray the soapy water on the air bags in the high, normal, highway, and access modes. Most early signs of bag leakage only occur at one height....and it's usually not the normal height.
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L
Aha! This morning, I went out and checked the rover and the front end had dropped. By the way, it is a LHD model. The passenger side had dropped 1" and the driver side dropped 1.5".

I will be further checking for leaks. I am hoping for a leak at the tops of the bags and not block.

Any further insight will be appreciated.


Thanks for everyone's help, thus far.
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S
lesjonpool said:
I will be further checking for leaks. I am hoping for a leak at the tops of the bags and not block.

.
Click to expand...

either way is leaky orings. If you have one leaky oring, you have 47 that are about to leak. Do them all at one time and forgedaboudit.
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L
On kmagnuss's recommendation, I decided to leave the Rangie at the high position with the door opened overnight. Prior to leaving the truck, I ran the engine until the tank was full and the compressor had stopped.

I then sprayed the air spring bottoms, the air spring top collet areas, the air dryer top and bottom, the air tank inlet, and the compressor outlets with soapy water and found no leaks. I waited two hours, checked the heights of all of the wheels and found no changes. I then started the truck with all doors closed and it didn't raise, at all. This indicated to me that the leak hadn't made an impact.

When I came out in the morning, I had about the same results as when it was at normal height. The front driver's side dipped about 1.5" and the passenger-side dipped 1". I started the truck and left the door open in order to fill the tank. The tank took forever to fill, again.

So, I clearly have a leak. I also may have a failing compressor. This is not surprising as I can tell that it has always ran frequently.

Now, it has been difficult to find the leak. Should I just start at the simplest and most obvious place and just replace the orings at the tops of the air bags? shupack, you seem to think this would be a good course of action. I am apprehensive about replacing the rear because I have no evidence that they are the culprits. It also seems like they will be a total pain to access. I certainly don't want to rebuild the valve block, at this point.

47 o-rings:

2 at each air bag
4 on the air dryer
2 at each valve block outlet
4 total for the air dryer at the valve block

Are the remaining 23 in the valve block?


Thank you!
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kmagnuss
I would rebuild your valve block first (it's not that bad. I did mine on my sister's kitchen table while visiting one day in a cold IL winter with very limited tools in about three hours) and also rebuild your compressor while you're at it. They are cheap and easy to fix, and whether or not it's the culprit (I'd bet the house it is) you need it anyway.
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S
47 is a guess, I've never actually totaled them up.

4 on EACH valve x 7 valves = 28
3 check valves x 1 seat and 1 seal + 1 more port = 7
1 on the diaphragm = 1
4 on each airline (2 on each end) x 7 = 28
=

74

so I'm mathematically dislexic... pretty interesting...
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H
I did mine on my sister's kitchen table while visiting one day in a cold IL winter with very limited tools in about three hours)
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

that's a great story... you obviously have an understanding sister.... did you tell her it was a "boy thing" ? :shock: :lol: :lol: :wink:
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kmagnuss
I told her it was a "If you ever want me to pull you out of a snow bank again, I need to do this thing."
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L
I replaced the suspect o-rings. I depressurized the system and have the body up on a jack. Everything seemed to be a success and I want to check to see if the leak is still there.

I am trying to repressurize the system, now. The body is still up on the jack. Unfortunately, I have been trying to repressurize the system for 3 hours, now. That's right, the Rover has been running for 3 hours straight. As has the compressor. I close the door and the truck does not raise up. Previously, it took an hour. Now, three hours.

I am currently dejected and just want to blow the thing up. I can't tell if I should just give up or let it keep going.

I understand that it is likely a compressor / valve block that needs to be rebuilt. I am not satisfied as it is just a blind hypothesis.

3 hours!!!!
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kmagnuss
blow it up...or replace the compressor. Hmmmmm. :think:
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L
It seems to me that I have two problems:

- I have a leak as evidenced by the fact that, after filling the tank and leaving the doors open overnight, the front sinks down about 1 to 1.5 inches.

- I have a bad compressor. If I am only dropping 1 to 1.5 inches, the leak isn't bad enough to make the compressor have to run an hour to fill the tank up.

It was my goal to fix the leaks first. I would upgrade the o-rings and then get the rover back up to normal height. I would then leave the door open overnight to see if it still dropped.

My hope was that I could get the truck drivable, put it in inhibit mode and at least have it functional while I waited for the compressor parts to arrive. I would then turn my efforts towards the compressor and valve block.


An update of my "progress":

I heard a light hissing noise coming from the rear passenger side well. This prompted me to jack up the car, remove the well cover, and investigate. I still could not hear a leak. I figured, while I was down there, I would replace those o-rings. When I popped the line, the wheel sucked up to the bumper. This was surprising to me. I then removed the wheel and did the job.

I still hear the hissing, I've soaped everything down and cannot find anything. I know that there is a tank down there - is the hissing sound coming from this?

Now, I am trying to fill up the tank again. Surely, it will not fill up.
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kmagnuss
My Halloween psychic powers tell me there's a coil conversion in your future.

Take a deep breath. Take a step back for an hour or two. Drink a beer or three.

The leak could be very, very small, and it could be in the valve block which you are about to rebuild. Don't fret, order the new compressor seal and o-ring kit, and knock out those two first. They're cheap and easy. Take it from there if you still have a problem. Before too long, you won't be able to find any leaks, because your compressor is going to completely stop working. Fix the things you know are bad first. And have a beer. And a milky way...it's halloween.
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H
I heard a light hissing noise coming from the rear passenger side well.
Click to expand...
ah ha! the air tank is situated under the body about where the rear passenger door is.

Leave the vehicle on jack stands and check the nylon air line connection into the tank for leaks...use soapy water. If it is leaking, you will need to trim the end of the airline and replace the o-rings. Check around the screw in plug in the tank for leaks also.

If there's a leak... then: CAREFUL! :hand:

Open the the screw in plug slowly about 2 turns, no more.
There is a channel machined at right angles to the thread which allows you to bleed pressure out. Once the tank is FULLY exhausted, remove the screw plug, check for residual water, dry any that's there with a rag and clean the threads. Put some thread sealer on and replace the plug. do it up snugly, don't over-tighten.

Remove the airline from the tank and trim the end (just a couple of mm), replace the o-rings in the tank connector, push the airline back into place ...you'll feel it push past the initial resistance of the o-rings and see if you can reinflate the tank. check for leaks.

It IS frustrating... but worth the effort once you get it working. :thumb:
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L
Thanks everyone for your help, thus far.

I have sprayed around that plug in the fill tank underneath the passenger side door. No dice. The hissing sound, if it is from the EAS at all, seems to be coming from the line between the fill tank and the rear passenger-side air spring. Does anyone know if the hissing sound is normal? It could be pressurization for the gas tank. The gas line is right there.

Anyway, I am now convinced that I need to do the compressor first. Any leaks are likely in the valve block so I need to do that job, too. I was just hoping to avoid having the truck laid up while I wait for the parts.

By the way, I alluded to the truck being on the bumpers in previous stages. This is not the case. It has been in access mode, but not all the way down to the bumpers. It is now all the way down to the bumpers. Kind of sad looking.

Thanks again for the help.
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H
From the "different cultures separated by a common language" department: :shock: :wink:

By ' gas tank' I presume you mean petrol/gasoline tank as distinct from lpg tank?

In no case is hissing sound normal. Have you tried the soap suds on all piping/tubing in that area?

Just occurred to me however that you may have a cracked/ chaffed air line....

The air line supplying the rear rhs airbag IIRC routes down the LH side of the car and then makes a LH turn and passes across to the other side between the top of the fuel tank and the body...devilishly difficult to get to .... it is prone to chaffing...I had the same problem 2 yrs ago so bought about 20 feet of 6mm tubing, duplicated the line attaching to old line with plastic zip ties. I encased the last 4' in some 1/2" ID plastic tubing I had spare to protect it from rubbing through.. never did find out where the old line was leaking from exactly but the new line solved the problem :D

hope this helps
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L
Thanks Hoges, that sounds likely. The line you described is exactly what it sounds like it is. I have sprayed every visible part of that line and have seen no evidence of leakage. However, there is a part of the line that moves from the visible top of the frame to the impossible-to-see inside of the frame. I will take a closer look.

I am trying to find a pneumatic tubing schematic in my RAVE CD. No luck, thus far. I have seen the diagram of the components, just not a piping diagram. Does anyone know where I may find one in the manual?


Thanks!
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L
Thanks everyone for your help. To all the EAS guys... i know it was exasperating beating the compressor issue into my head. Give me a big "I told you so". The seal on the compressor piston was worn. I ordered the part last night. When it arrives, I should be able to have the system pressurized in 30 minutes. Thanks in advance to Rover Renovations for the parts.

I know I still have leaks. However, there is no way to find them if I cannot pressurize the system. It is likely that the leaks are in the valve block. I ordered the gasket kit, as well.

The sound I was hearing at the rear passenger-side wheel couldn't be the EAS - at least, I don't think. The compressor wasn't getting enough pressure to make that kind of hiss. I also inspected the line from that wheel to the reservoir pretty thoroughly with a multi-sensory inspection.

Anyway... thanks again!
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996TURBO
Hoges said:
From the "different cultures separated by a common language" department: :shock: :wink:

By ' gas tank' I presume you mean petrol/gasoline tank as distinct from lpg tank?

In no case is hissing sound normal. Have you tried the soap suds on all piping/tubing in that area?

Just occurred to me however that you may have a cracked/ chaffed air line....

The air line supplying the rear rhs airbag IIRC routes down the LH side of the car and then makes a LH turn and passes across to the other side between the top of the fuel tank and the body...devilishly difficult to get to .... it is prone to chaffing...I had the same problem 2 yrs ago so bought about 20 feet of 6mm tubing, duplicated the line attaching to old line with plastic zip ties. I encased the last 4' in some 1/2" ID plastic tubing I had spare to protect it from rubbing through.. never did find out where the old line was leaking from exactly but the new line solved the problem :D

hope this helps
Click to expand...
I second that.

Have a look at your center exhaust.
Very often when they're dead, the heat melts 2 airlines (air tank and RHS airbag).
Location of the affected part of the airline is middle of the truck after rear wheels.
FIY, all the LH part of the airline from LH front spring is under a thermal protection until LH rearspring, then there's nothing to protect those 2 airlines.
I did experiment a new path for those 2 airlines : RH side of the car and directly to tank and RH spring. There's less chances to melt them with exhaust heat since the main part of the exhaust is LR side. I hidden those behind thermal panels for the cats.
No trouble since and easy to do.
That surely explain why your air tank is always drained.
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