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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

I've used the forum to gain many stripes over the last few years - eas just keeps giving!

I have now lost all drive.

Some symptoms / observations:

i) 1999 4.6 Petrol HSE auto.
ii) 135000 miles on clock - engine replaced at 80000
iii) leading up to this sometimes it used to hang so when accelerating it would rev/hang in mid air and then jump into gear - this gradually became more common.
iv) strange noise kinda like a whelp - only occasional - impossible to describe.
v) my wife sometimes smelled a funny smell 8-0= (may try that one in the kitchen!)
vi) transmission fluid is clear and does not smell burnt.
vii) no motion in any gear
viii) before I got towed home if I revved like a nutter you could feel a slight bit of movement - like a faint memory - this is what the recovery guy did.

We live in a national park at 1250 feet and the shops etc are about 15 miles away - so no suprise it just faded away whilst driving home uphill. I am thinking that all the hills have finally caught up with it.

The recovery guy from Landrover towed me home and whilst having a drink that he thought it was the torque converter?

I saw a post by:

http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-...l322/43775-torque-converter-repplacement.html

and figured that if it is that I may as well give it a go as theres nothing to loose really as its already broke, it had a replacement engine at 80,000 so it goes brill (did).

I sure would appreciate any tips on diagnosis/fixing.

Thanks

Charles


1999 4.6 Petrol HSE auto.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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As there is no dip stick for the trans, how are you determining the color?
Has the trans been properly serviced in the past?
HOW recently, as there are things that, if done incorrectly, will cause this set of symptoms.
Before you go tossing hand grenade fixes at this problem, I would get a filter, and service the trans.......
When refilling, it MUST be done correctly, and it is not intuitive!
There are numerous threads about this, but in brief, Replace pan, tighten, fill through plug till it runs out. FROM COLD, start engine, hold brake, run through all gears, then before it has a chance to heat up, you get back under, and with it running, you top it up until it runs out again, install plug, and Drive!
Good luck, and no shortcuts!
 

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No dipstick on a 99 depends on if it is GEMS or Bosch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Its a GEMS - last serviced - well - OK... hands up!

I didn't know there was a specific way to do this - I checked it on occasion and thought 'seems to be full' - I am now learning that thats not the way to test...

If its any further info occasionally the dipstick has popped out?

I'm going to go and hide now - `)
 

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OK, you have a dipstick, so GEMS motor.......
The news that the dipstick has been ejected is good data as it indicates that the breather for the trans is probably clogged thus, when it heats up it blows the stick out.... possibly along with trans fluid? Have you noticed any around the dipstick base?
Still, gives you a 2 step fix.....First, find the vent, and clear it out, second, as before, get a filter and service the trans.
I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but trans fluid level should be checked with engine running and hot.
It is of course possible that the trans has never been serviced since warranty was up, so a good start.
Torque converters, indecently, rarely fail unless catastrophically, and you know it has happened!......
 

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I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but trans fluid level should be checked with engine running and hot.
You are. It should be checked cold. Start the engine from cold, run through all the gears and back to neutral, then check the dipstick while the engine and transmission is still cold.
 

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Thought so, that's why I invited you to slap me down a peg!:naughty: Thanks!
Having had only Bosch 99-02's I am not accustomed to having the ability to actually check things on a routine basis.
Who's brilliant idea was it to eliminate the DS in the later mods anyway??
The boat, which get's checked regularly, needs to be hot and running, so I get confused........
Cheers
 

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The dip stick was eliminated during the Bosch redesign because the existing dip stick would not fit with the intake and engine compartment changes.
 

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Ahh, But of course!
Using their super powers of logic and common sense, they thought: "Heck, I have never checked my trans fluid level, thus no one would, so no one will miss it"
It will also make the dealers happy as they can charge a bunch more for service!.
Thanks TH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

Its taken a while to get around to servicing the transmission - I was prompted my an optomistic phone engineer over a cuppa!

I've drained the fluid, removed the pan, changed the filter, reassembled - filled up and cycled through the gears.

There is slight movement - before there was none just revs. I have moved backwards 1m in low range.

Is this progress, will he make a full recovery? :?:
 

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Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

Backwards?........
I bought a 99 Bosch parts car and it would only go backwards.
It turned out to be a case where the former owner had the trans serviced by a local "Expert Indie" and they left the small clear protective plastic ring on the spigot of the new filter. This had melted and distorted so badly that it was sucking air. New filter, and it goes like a scalded cat! The Dealer and "Expert LR Indie" had told him he needed a new trans so he sold it for parts!
I have also nicked the O ring in fitting a filter and gotten much the same result.
When you did the service, are you positive the filter was fully seated on the valve body prior to tightening?
Oh, I am referring to the large diameter O ring that is on the filter, not the pick up tube, however, if that one is missing or misaligned, .....same result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

I know the rings you mean - I think you are right that there is a blockage somewhere - embarrasing story...

I have to refix the suspension after all this time so in the meantime I have chocked it up with wooden blocks under the bumpstops - super conscious I need to be safe. Anyway, I found I could slide/reach under at a squeeze and reach where I needed to. Only the last nut needed extra reach and I think I overstretched but found myself further under in lots of space and I couldn't get back out!!!

So I finished up and eventually managed to squeeze myself out - but lesson learned.
 

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Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

Anyway, I found I could slide/reach under at a squeeze and reach where I needed to. Only the last nut needed extra reach ...
SO many directions I could steer this... :twisted:
 

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Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

SO many directions I could steer this... :twisted:
Be nice! Mr Toad ;-)
In any case, it sounds like you certainly set the stage for a tweaked O ring, bent filter spigot, or misaligned filter.
I always go for max ride height, and put in the big blocks so I can get right under the trans with plenty of room to see just what is fitting into what.
Even then, as I said, I screwed up the large O ring on my 02 last time I serviced it, and had to use my extra filter kit since I sorta tweaked the thin spigot where said O ring sits.
I suspect what you have is not so much a blockage as a bad seal, so the trans pump is sucking air.
Get a jack, lift the body, and block the axles at a reasonable height so you will not get stuck ...........again.......:roll:
 

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Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

Damaged O ring or similar would explain it if drive had been lost after doing a service but wouldn't explain the initial loss of drive in the first place. Something happened then to cause him to be doing this work originally.
 

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Re: Drive seems like a distant memory. Update moved 1m!

Well, this is true, however in the case of my parts car with the thin clear plastic ring left on the spigot, according to the PO, it drove just fine for 5-6 k miles before it finally warped and started sucking air.
Then it just got progressively worse until finally it just stopped. Thus the diagnosis by the turkeys who caused the issue as a blown trans requiring replacement.
Dislodged / cracked O ring would net a similar set of symptoms.

I suppose it would be nice to hear just what the original set of circumstances were?

Edit: I went back to first post, and here are the same symptoms I have been describing, taken from that post:

vi) transmission fluid is clear and does not smell burnt.
vii) no motion in any gear
viii) before I got towed home if I revved like a nutter you could feel a slight bit of movement - like a faint memory - this is what the recovery guy did.

This is pretty much what my 02 did when I screwed up the service last time, however I had the issues within 1/4 mile as I drove up the hill that is my driveway.
Kinda slushy on the flat lead up to it, but rev like a dog and it would not go up! Proof is that it would go up in reverse since the fluid was sloshed to the hole left by the damaged O ring.
 

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The dip stick was eliminated during the Bosch redesign because the existing dip stick would not fit with the intake and engine compartment changes.
Guys, sorry to resurrect an old thread.
Is it possible to interchange AT sumps from one with dipstick to one without?
 

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That's actually a very good suggestion! Woul make checking and filling considerably easier.

Filip
 

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Is the sump actually different? On mine the dipstick tube goes almost horizontal at the level of the gearbox filler hole 9and into a kind of compression fitting), and that is alos where the end of the dipstick ends up (ie in the horizontal section) - therefore essentially doing the same job as levelling off at the filler hole. Not sure there's anything special about it - so you cd either pick up a 2nd hand part, or fabricate something fairly easily. I know the grass is always greener, but in some ways the filler hole does at least give you a definitive response, whereas with the dipstick you have to polish the dipstick to be really really sure you've got the right level, and then oh shoot, too much...
 
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