[VogueHSE]

So was wondering if anyone knows if malfunctioning door microswitches.....yes mine are but I am 500km from the nearest Rangie atm, I am wondering if they might be possibly affecting , or stopping my windows, seats hvac light & gauges from working? As per discussion further down the board. This is my last option and seems related.

* All these problems when they start and when they stop, all do so at exactly the same time. There is something all these curcuits have in common, just dont know what. The drivers door seems to be making all the noise so there is best to start I assume.

For the new lookers it is a Australian Delivered RHD 97 4.6 HSE.

Have cleaned all earths, swapped out all fuses, reconditioned Becm & ECU, had both coded to the keyreader & key and fitted a new 1000cca battery. Cleaned fusebox and under bonnet earths. Incluing the one behind the Airbox.
Stil...

Front windows inoperative, rears OK no gauges except SRS light on startup. Sunroof dead, drivers outstation chatters a lot and central locking is random. Sometimes clicking in Becm can be heard but Injectronics reconditioned it 2 weeks ago and it worked fine after fitting, although it was doing this when refitted but randomly came good after 20 minutes. Then entire car worked perfectly for numerous startups over 5 days.. Then this stuff started. Hasnt worked properly since. Car starts & drives as normal.

Does anyone know please, would dodgy microswitches cause issues for these unrelated circuits, or Can I simply disconnect the door microswitches & re wire the tailgate to get around this temporarily at all?
I need gauges to drive & windows to breathe lol.
Thanks peeps!

 

[Bolt]

Got a good exorcist on the Mount??

Failing that, and since you are positive that all power tracks and earths are good, this leaves you with the intermediate connectors.......Start behind both the LH and RH kick panels, and inspect the several multi contact connectors behind each. If no one has ever looked, you may be surprised how green and fuzzy they can be.
If they are indeed bad, you can chop the connectors out, and solder/ heat shrink the wires together for a permanent fix.
Corrosion in these plugs will give you intermittent operation as described.
If those are like new (unlikely!) then time to consult RAVE and find the others.
As for the door micros causing the instruments to not work? I will go out on a limb and say "no way."....
Corroded connectors in the aforementioned kick panels? Yea, could do......
And, you have of course inspected all of the connectors on the Becm with a bright light?
Corrosion there will cause any number of issues.
There goes the rest of the weekend!

 

[VogueHSE]

Thanks Bolt, yay, more plugs to find haha,

 

[VogueHSE]

Whilst checking the connections in drivers kick panel, the ones at the bottom, are there any more up alongside the dash I should check? Lower were clean. Anyway, A New Clue!
Have confirmed when the interior lights are On and I press a button for a window or the sunroof, the drivers door outstation rattles its head off, turn interior lights off and nothing still works but outstation stays silent. But central locking stops working. Weird.

 

[Bolt]

I believe there is another set of connections in the pillar where he door loon emerges......(Check Rave)
I know you say you have hit all the earth points, but you are describing a classic "Ground Loop" situation.......Got a niggling hunch you have missed something. Check resistance from the point the earth wires connect to the affected components to a good known earth point.
Look for the splice points in the earth leads .......Harder to find, but a known failure point. (Only the Brits would actually install splices in a cable run!)
Have you consulted Rave to find out if these things all share a single common earth?
Have you removed the drivers side door sill plate and closely inspected the wires under it? (you need to unwrap the tape, then re tape when done)
Just a passing thought, but how is the main earth at the Becm?
This is seriously gonna cut into your pub time!

 

[VogueHSE]

Found the problem after removing the main loom out of the vehicle.
The spare tyre was deflated.
Seems as likely as any other cause going at the moment lol.

 

[RRToadHall]

door locks do not interact with any thing you are having issues with nor do you need to remove the main harness as it is no where near the spare tire. Run through the the front door latch testing stickie above and find out which latch has failed and the tailgate lock has full power at all times with the ground for locking circuit being supplied by the right front door latch no matter if your rig is LHD or RHD.

"..central locking is random." is the tell tale sign you simply have a duff latch to replace. BTW i believe Marty_NZ, that wrote the testing stickie, still rebuilds latches and sells them.

 

[marty_nz]

Hmm, OK, so if BECM is all good because it has been serviced (do they test it on an actual vehicle, or with outstation/switchpack etc connected?) and is OK - and you've seen it all working in the vehicle, but there's an intermittent problem...

Then what I would suggest doing is disconnect both front door outstations, the window switchpack, the instrument cluster and the drivers seat (if it's memory electric - if it's just manual electric then it won't make a difference).
I would then start by plugging the instrument cluster in and seeing if this works, if so, then plug the other items (probably the window switchpack next) one at a time until the issue comes back.

The reasoning behind this is that everything you are having issues with is connected to the BECM via a serial link. The outstations take inputs from the door latches and transmit the signals to the BECM over serial link - likewise the window switchpack does the same, and the memory seat has information going both ways about position and memory for things like mirrors. The instrument cluster is driven via serial link FROM the BECM - so it sounds to me like something is interrupting or messing that up to the point the communication isn't getting through anywhere.

Whether it's a deeper problem on the logic board, or something messing it with externally I couldn't tell you at the moment - but the fact it has worked and is intermittently working says to me it's probably external to the BECM and this is being affected by whatever else is going on.

Disconnecting everything and going one at a time might help narrow down which device or wiring to it is causing the issue.
If disconnecting the individual devices doesn't make a difference then let me know and I'll dig out what connectors they end up at on the BECM and it's worth trying to isolate at that end too, in case there's a fault/short in a wire which is causing it, even with the devices unplugged.

As Bolt says - check footwell kick panel connectors - they are a known place of issues, though none of the aforementioned serial links go through those. The connectors to the doors is further up the A pillar, which the serial link wiring goes through to the door looms/outstations and is also known to get damp and corrode - so well worth checking too.

Door latch microswitches are unlikely in my experiences to cause the issues you are having. Normal failure of those is either jumping locks, or lack of response from locking etc. But disconnecting the outstations will also isolate the latches.


Hope this helps and gives a bit of something else to try...
Marty

 

[VogueHSE]

Hi Marty, thanks for that indepth reply, very understandable, we seem to be of the same thought but started at different places.......here is my starting point. Noted early on that if I remove fuse 1 while motor is running the HVAC display backlight comes ON, refit fuse & backlight goes out again. Jiggle the fuse breaking contact & backlight comes on and tacho then works, fuel and temp warning lights come on but those gauges dont. Info display also operates at that point saying Electrical fault. Once I turn the key off it all stops working again.
So, I suspected power maybe backfeeding via the RH footwell earth. So I started by removing all the earths & trying 1 at a time. No particular change. I did the sticky tests on doors over the weekend....all checked out as working.

The Becm was reconditioned they told me, not sure how it was tested however since then the car did have 5 days where everything worked properly, doorlocks, alarm, windows, absolutely no electrical issues in the car whatsoever... when these issues happened all happened at exactly the same moment..
I have pulled the loom out from RH kick panel to the becm, no wire breaks, was a little green around some connectors, cleaned with contact cleaner and a stiff brush , there was a little beach sand in the track to the becm but the wiring appears fine. Have noticed other randomness, sometimes the rear windows operate good, other times they stutter, as if not enough power, front RH window works but lot of chattering from RH outstation whenever a window switch is operated, front OR rear. Only when interior lights are on though, turn interior lights OFF and chattering stops. LHF window has stopped altogether. Tailgate works as designed at all times. Have cleaned earth behind HVAC, RH kickpanel earth, earth under engine bay fusebox, engine bay earth behid air intake box and earth on chassis behind the Alternator. Cannot find any others. Cleaned LH kickpanel connectors, and all plugs to becm. All fuses have correct power happening. Car starts runs & shifts fine, all exterior lights, horn radio hvac Fans all work as should.
Will try your unplug everything one by one process tomorrow. I will also access this earth under the RHF wheelarch to see what that is like.
Thank you for you time & assistance Marty, hope some of this provides some clues .

 

[VogueHSE]

Thanks Toad, have messaged Marty ������

 

[VogueHSE]

OK Marty. Sunny morning, car has had a few hours in sun to warm up...ambient is about 23 celsius. Unplugged gauges, window switches, door outstations & other black boxes in doors marked AMR 2909. Attempted to start car, immoboliser on. So we know that still works, after supposedly having been turned off by techicians......so plugged drivers outstation back in, unlocked with key in door, car started. Unplugged outstation again.
Plugged in gauges. Fuel gauge orange light on, guage goes up but only about 3mm. Same for temp gauge but with red light. Jewel warning lights came on for a tic, tacho works. HVAC Backlight working, fuse 1 IN.

Warning panel lights up.
'ELECTRICAL FAULT TEMP GAUGE FUEL GAUGE AIRBAG FAULT' warnings arrive. Airbags were fine previously.

Turn car off & restart : gauges dead again. Unplug/replug dash, same things work again. HVac light works when dash bits do but dies when they do on shutdown too.
Plugged window pack in, no change. Have stopped there so far as it seems the problem revolves around something that is meant to 'trigger' the dash to activate?
If that problem can be rectified it just leaves me with a suspect LHF window....which May be a seperate issue...but remember all these issues started at the same moment....
So I will leave the car as is until I hear from you Mr Guru

 

[VogueHSE]

I have found something much more disturbing. When I purchased the car a few months back the last owner said he had fitted a new Fuse Box. So I had cleaned the plug contacts & assumed it was not my problem as all power seemed to be going where it was meant. On a hunch I opened it to inspect it just now. Along the way found Fuse 44 was toasted and the casing of the fuse box was brittle. Suggesting it was not so new since the car hadnt been started for 4 years so engine heat wasnt a factor.So...upon opening, what a nightmare. Wanted to post pics but this site wont allow that. So here is a description.https://www.rangerovers.net/forum/18-p38a-parts-sale-wanted/334368-callaway-32-parting-out.html

Relay seven mount has cooked, tracked across through relay 6, under a metal connector and cooked fuse holder 34.

Relay 12 mount has cooked a post. Both have sent power down the joining solder to the other circuit board & toasted that.

The lower circuit board has cracked & been bent across the corner, breaking 3 solder 'joiners' between the circuit boards.

Circuit Board at Fuse 43 also shows scorching but the actual fuse was OK.Wonder the thing worked at all! Lol.I am assuming it is new fusebox time lol. Will research and see what Fuse 44/43 power to see if it is same gear I have faulting.

 

[VogueHSE]

Well that was a dead end. All the relays/fuses showing scorching are related to fans. All the fans work fine. Which leaves the snapped corner of the circuitboard which is on the opposite corner. New fusebox time. Yay.

 

[VogueHSE]

The broken corner isnt the cause of my current issues but, the Faults all started when I tried to start the car after parking it up fine the night before. It was locked with the red light flashing & presented no false alarms or lock rattling each of the 5 nights that the car all worked 100%.
This crack looks pretty old. Older than 2 weeks anyway.

 

[Richard_G]

The solder 'joiners' between the boards shouldn't be solder, they should be pretty thick square section pins. Sounds like someone has had it apart and made a real pigs ear of trying to repair it (as in https://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/electrical/fusebox.html#dismant). You need a NEW fusebox but make sure you get the correct one as there are 3 different variants. That will almost certainly cure the bulk of your problems leaving you with possibly only a door latch to replace.

 

[VogueHSE]

Gee that would be good Richard, I hope thats all it is . Yep I have taken all the details for a Hi level fuse box. Many thanks

 

[Richard_G]

Go from your VIN, the original fusebox number supersedes to a different one which was fitted from about 97, then 98 is different again, and a complete change in 99 with the Thor engine. They are not interchangeable so you must get the correct one that matches your VIN.

 

[Bolt]

Hey!
Richard, you seen to be advocating tossing out a perfectly repairable fuse box and just replacing it?:shock:
Oh the shame!
Over here in the US of A, we always repair the burnt crumbling fuseboxes!
THEN we toss the smouldering remains in the bin, and buy a new one!:dance:

Seriously though, I hope the fusebox is the ultimate culprit here.
With power going everywhere it is not supposed to be going, you can have the same symptoms as earth faults as current finds new and creative paths to get to where it wants to be.

The PO may have said he replaced the fusebox, but failed to mention he used one from the old Massy Ferguson out the back paddock!

 

[VogueHSE]

Hahaha....yep, think you nailed that one BOLT. Said something about a radiator fan out of a Corvaire too......wasnt happy about his lie but. He reminds me of a '58 Edsel grill.....

 

[Richard_G]

Richard, you seen to be advocating tossing out a perfectly repairable fuse box and just replacing it?:shock:

Yeah I know, but it probably was perfectly repairable until someone else tried to repair it. There's only so much you can do with epoxy resin, wire jumpers and solder.....