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Discussion Starter #1
...you love it.

I know the looks and price are seductive. I realize you can buy an awesome looking status packed truck for 10% of what it cost new, and for less than the cost of a new Kia you can be rolling like the Kardasians ....but don't do it. Don't do it if all you can afford is the cheap entry price. Save yourself the expensive aggravation.

The Range Rover is not cheap to own. It's not cheap to buy new ones because you'll absorb massive depreciation. It's not cheap to own used examples because you'll pay lots for parts and labor. I know it's seductive. It's a fantastic looking beast, and that Kia like price tag makes you drool.

But the cost of admission is cheap for a very good reason. These are NOT cheap beast to own. A $14,000 used Range Rover IS NOT for the person that can only afford $14,000. It will break you, and send you away mad.

Every year of the L322 has problems. The BMW years and the Ford years. None of them are cheap. At this point, the L322 is an enthusiast's truck. A truck for someone with the resources or skills and tools to keep it maintained. It's not a truck for the casual buyer. It's not a truck for the person who can only afford one mode of transportation and needs it to always get them to work on time or to pick up the kids from school.

At this point, the L322 is for enthusiasts with means or mechanics.
 

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Interesting post, especially since I found a 2007 that I'm in love with and am considering. I'd definitely fall within your category of being seducted by the losw price.

However, I've been a Classic owner for the past 10 yrs, so I KNOW the routine of constant maintenance and attention required, but I'm curious as to the difference in the magnitude of "problems" between the 2007 model and my '93.

What I would most fear is the inability to fix it myself as I am able to do with the '93. Are the systems that most often fail more likely to need a dealer, or more likely to be more expensive?

I know there must be threads out there that talk specifics about each of the Mk 3 years, so I'll research those, but really, your comments could apply to ANY year RR, couldn't they? If we've owned ANY model for a length of time, we know this, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting post, especially since I found a 2007 that I'm in love with and am considering. I'd definitely fall within your category of being seducted by the losw price.

However, I've been a Classic owner for the past 10 yrs, so I KNOW the routine of constant maintenance and attention required, but I'm curious as to the difference in the magnitude of "problems" between the 2007 model and my '93.

What I would most fear is the inability to fix it myself as I am able to do with the '93. Are the systems that most often fail more likely to need a dealer, or more likely to be more expensive?

I know there must be threads out there that talk specifics about each of the Mk 3 years, so I'll research those, but really, your comments could apply to ANY year RR, couldn't they? If we've owned ANY model for a length of time, we know this, right?
No, you're right. Most people who know the brand know this.

Why focus on the L322? Because right now it's in the zone. By that I mean it's "new" enough, and good looking enough to lure in a lot of owners who should not buy this truck.

There are threads on this forum where people are new to the brand and surprised by common issues. Threads like this: https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/the-saga-continues.339053/#post-2285753

Where the gentlemen knew nothing of the very common timing chain issue with certain Ford/Jaguar engines. Luckily he had a warranty that covered it. But had he not, he would have had to pay over $8,000 for the repair.

The kind of buyer that can now afford the purchase price of the L322 needs to know that the true cost of owning this vehicle is NOT just the $10K-$20K purchase price.

More than likely they are the kind of buyer that should by a Honda or Toyota. That fantastic looking $15,000 Range Rover IS NOT a $15,000 truck. It's a very expensive truck, it just doesn't cost that much to buy, but it cost a lot to own and drive.
 

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Still cheaper to fix than the fixer upper house I bought. But a close second.


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Discussion Starter #5
Interesting post, especially since I found a 2007 that I'm in love with and am considering. I'd definitely fall within your category of being seducted by the losw price.

However, I've been a Classic owner for the past 10 yrs, so I KNOW the routine of constant maintenance and attention required, but I'm curious as to the difference in the magnitude of "problems" between the 2007 model and my '93.

What I would most fear is the inability to fix it myself as I am able to do with the '93. Are the systems that most often fail more likely to need a dealer, or more likely to be more expensive?

I know there must be threads out there that talk specifics about each of the Mk 3 years, so I'll research those, but really, your comments could apply to ANY year RR, couldn't they? If we've owned ANY model for a length of time, we know this, right?
Personally, I rather prefer the Ford/Jaguar years.

But they do have the timing chain service which is a beast to do. I would rather have the analog instrument cluster 2009, rather than the LCD instrument cluster of 2010, 2011, and 2012 model years.

I think the Ford/Jaguar engine is fantastic, especially with the supercharger, and very serviceable. But I'm saying that as a fairly competent mechanic. If I were someone without the tools and ability to work on them myself, I'd probably hate them, as the guy in the post I made above seems to be.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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You do know you posted this drivel on a rr forum right??
If you can name me one luxury European vehicle without it's issues after 6-10 years, tell me about it. I've worked on most, and they are all a nightmare if you get a lemon. Just the same as a Ford Ecoboost v6 etc.
Weird though, as we've had the wife's '11 SC for @2yrs with little to no repairs, besides maintenance.
Then there was the '03 that had that terrible BMW 4.4, that lasted @6yrs all but trouble free.
Yes, I did the timing and Vanos on the '03 out of precaution, and have just done a timing and supercharger job on the '11. Neither one left us stranded though, unlike a friends ford and GMC have both left them on the side of the road.......

Move along.

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You do know you posted this drivel on a rr forum right??
If you can name me one luxury European vehicle without it's issues after 6-10 years, tell me about it. I've worked on most, and they are all a nightmare if you get a lemon. Just the same as a Ford Ecoboost v6 etc.
Weird though, as we've had the wife's '11 SC for @2yrs with little to no repairs, besides maintenance.
Then there was the '03 that had that terrible BMW 4.4, that lasted @6yrs all but trouble free.
Yes, I did the timing and Vanos on the '03 out of precaution, and have just done a timing and supercharger job on the '11. Neither one left us stranded though, unlike a friends ford and GMC have both left them on the side of the road.......

Move along.

Martin
lol

You didn't read all my posts.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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lol

You didn't read all my posts.
Just reread them, and am still lost I guess.......
But it's been a long day after finishing up the timing job on the wife's '11SC after fighting the idiotic cam locks, then had the POS plastic fitting at the water pump not seal, requiring my middle kid to drive @1.5hrs to a dealer to get the updated parts. He's on his way back now.....On the bed of a AAA flatbed truck. Trans gone in his GMC by the sound of it. The same one I replaced @2yrs ago when we bought it for him.
Like I said, long day. And only about to get longer as I get the wife's out of the shop hopefully tonight, to make room for the GMC........ Pass the alcohol please!

Martin
 

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Agreed..my 2011 SC and 2008 HSE were two of the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Besides EAS and a water pump both were incredibly reliable. The 2011 did have a replacement engine at 80,000 miles, but I put that down to 15,000 mile oil changes. My 2010 Sport did not have these issues outside of warranty.

And then my 2017 HSE that went to 100,000 miles needing 2 water pumps and that's it.
Rovers are incredibly reliable when maintained, like any other car. My fleet of 4 Chevrolet Impala 3LTs (Natural Gas) are constantly in the shop needing something. One is on the 3rd HPFR, costing $800 each.

I read your other posts, seems you're here as someone with salty past. Timing job can be done without the timing tools, or injector pullers. I've done it for under $1000 with tools.

Here's one of your other troll posts:

1. The air suspension is probably in need of new parts. You can do it bit by bit, as if fails, or just get in there and replace the wear parts.
2. Rubber and bushings need to be replaced, again you can do it piecemeal or just roll up your sleeves and do it.
3, Seals, including head gasket, and some hoses need to be replaced...again you can drag it out or just do it.
4. Gearbox needs a new filter, seals, and oil, and has probably been neglected. The same for differential service requirements.
5. There will be electronic modules that have to be replaced. Figure out the ones that will inconvenience you and replace them before they go.
6. Timing chain and tensioners, and parts need to be replaced, this will cost you thousands if you pay someone else to do it (I think it's booked as a 22 hour job), and requires some specialty tools for timing. But if you do it and are smart acquiring the tools you need, it'll cost you maybe a $1K or less. If you pay a certified tech, it's a $4-$5k job.

1. EAS is incredibly easy to repair. The only parts that ever fail are the front air bags. New OE units can be had for under $500 for the pair. Valve blocks can fail if water is in the system. They are easy to replace with a good used unit.
2. That's every car.. New rubber bushings can be done easily, front suspensions are inexpensive to service and are no harder than a soulless Toyota.
3. Head gaskets will never need to be replaced, unless you neglect the water pump or other cooling components and overheat it badly. That's every car.
4. Gearbox filter is easy. $110, $100 for fluid, and the labour is cheap. I can do the entire deal in less than an hour.
5. Electronic modules fail on every car. Rover parts aren't extremely expensive. I had to replace an amplifier in my 2007, it was $130 and 15 minutes.
6. Timing chain jobs are getting rare now. Most cars have had it done, and 06-09 will never need them. Shops can do them for under $3,000. Chevy 3.6 V6s also have a high failure rate for timing chains. So do Chevy 5 cylinders, 4 cylinders, Ford 3.5 TT V6, Hyundais, Kias, and every other manufacturer. You're saying that the entire job can be done for $1000 or less, which is BS. Replacing ONLY the tensioners and guides can, and those parts + a crank hold total up to close to $800 IIRC from my last one.

What you're saying is mostly hate troll BS, I've gathered you've never owned one of these, whereas I've owned 15+ over the years. I've bought 2 this week that needed "Thousands of dollars of work" and fixed both for under $500 each. Now I have two beautiful running and driving trucks that I can lend out to people in the snow, and sell in the spring.

I used to buy Discovery 2s that needed head gaskets before winter, before that I bought Range Rover Classics. All of these cars are going up in value and the L322 is simply a great, reliable truck that like any used car will need a little bit of love before it performs as reliably as a 2018.

Your Maserati post.. I also find that funny. I owned a 2009 Quattroporte 5th generation with the 4.7 V8. My friend owns 3 or 4 of the pre facelifts. He calls those "reliably unpredictable" until you come to the facelift with the ZF transmission.

I hadn't any issues with it! It needs to be on a battery tender, the mechanical door lock stopped working, and brakes are horribly expensive. That's my list of complaints.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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I couldn't be bothered replying to this so called "expert" any more.
Maybe a kid in Moms basement?
Having just completed a full timing job our '11SC, and having done a partial on a '10 LR4, I can safely say he's full of it with the tools. Unless he has a full machine shop at his disposal...Kinda hard in the aformentioned basement.....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
First of all. Both of you gentlemen aren't the audience I'm addressing. You seem to be happy and confident turning a wrench. My post is aimed at the non-mechanic bargain shopper. The kind of person that hopefully does a little internet search before they buy that fantastic looking Range Rover sitting on the "we finance used car lot".

The kind of buyer who is looking at $10k-$15k SUVs because that's what they can afford. The kind of buyer who has never changed their own oil, and has no intention of working on their own vehicle. ....there are those people out there. In fact, there are a lot of them. There are a lot of buyers who can now afford a Range Rover now, but shouldn't.

Call that bs/hate/trolling if you like, but I assure you it isn't.

Reading your posts does nothing but back up my statements. If you think replacing the timing chain, guides, and tensioners on '11 SC 5.0L is a job just anyone could perform, then I don't know what planet you're living on. But in my world, that's not a job for the faint of heart, and there is a very good reason most shops will charge you anywhere from $5k-$8k to do that job.

For most people who are considering buying a 2011 Range Rover for $15k, that has around 100k on the odometer, and hasn't had the chain guides replaced, isn't going to be prepared for the possibility of their mechanic handing them $5k-$8k repair estimate. Or that first time they come out to get in their truck and notice the left corner is sagging a lot. God forbid they take it to a Range Rover Dealership and get a quote of $1000-$1500 to replace it. And then have it happen to their right side a few weeks or months later. I'm not talking to the guys and gals that can roll up their sleeves and DIY this b****. I'm talking about MOST of the people out there who buy cars and trucks and pay other people to service them. The 'Doug DeMuros' of the world.

But you're right, all cars have their faults, and need servicing. I just think people need to understand there is a very good reason these trucks can be purchased at 10-20% of their original purchase price. ...and it's not because they are incredibly reliable and maintenance is cheap.
 

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My first post asked if you knew this was a rr forum....Still stands
Most of the guys here know what they are getting into. So your rantings are a waste of space. So what makes these different from any other luxury brand? Nothing is the correct answer.
The fools that strap themselves are not going to be here looking for an I told you so. They are asking for advise.
As far as the timing etc being a diy job.....It obviously is, by the results I get
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My first post asked if you knew this was a rr forum....Still stands
Most of the guys here know what they are getting into. So your rantings are a waste of space. So what makes these different from any other luxury brand? Nothing is the correct answer.
The fools that strap themselves are not going to be here looking for an I told you so. They are asking for advise.
As far as the timing etc being a diy job.....It obviously is, by the results I get
Of course, I understand this is a Range Rover forum. What better forum is there to post about Range Rovers on?

They're not fools, they're just uninformed buyers. There are lots of people who don't understand there is a reasonable chance that in 2019 that 7-10-year-old truck priced at $10k-$15k might cost them their purchase price over again in repairs.

Hopefully, they don't end up like this gentlemen from this thread who seems genuinely disgusted with his experience.

(thankfully his was covered under a warranty...so good for him)

There are lots of potential buyers who use the internet for research. They need to understand that service histories are vital on these trucks and that they aren't Toyotas, deferring maintenance will bite them harder than some similarly priced used vehicles.

I'm not insulting you, or the Range Rover brand. It's not personal, and this isn't a team sport. I'm just stating facts, hoping that someone who is considering one of these trucks does a little internet research before buying them, and perhaps, just maybe, finds enough information to make an informed decision.

PS: I love the L322, and as I stated I'm particularly fond of the Ford/Jaguar engine.
 

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I don’t see how Rover ownership is any different from other car brands.

My Mercedes you are forced to bring it to the dealership, there’s a new check engine light on every other week. The last bill was a $1200 high pressure fuel pump. Now, the adaptive cruise needs a recalibration and after taking it in to an independent shop, was told because Mercedes updates the cars software every time the dealer tool is connected, I have to keep bringing it to Mercedes.

I generally bring my cars in to the dealer. There’s my hobby of DIY jobs as I buy so many cars, but the majority go to my local dealer or Indy shop.

If things aren’t neglected..everything is fine. Oil changes are kept at 5,000 miles timing tensioners never fail, if the gearbox oil is changed eventually, it won’t fail, if EAS is eventually replaced on the front it’ll last another decade.

You’re on a bloody Rover forum telling people not to buy Rovers...


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Discussion Starter #15
I don’t see how Rover ownership is any different from other car brands.

My Mercedes you are forced to bring it to the dealership, there’s a new check engine light on every other week. The last bill was a $1200 high pressure fuel pump. Now, the adaptive cruise needs a recalibration and after taking it in to an independent shop, was told because Mercedes updates the cars software every time the dealer tool is connected, I have to keep bringing it to Mercedes.

I generally bring my cars in to the dealer. There’s my hobby of DIY jobs as I buy so many cars, but the majority go to my local dealer or Indy shop.

If things aren’t neglected..everything is fine. Oil changes are kept at 5,000 miles timing tensioners never fail, if the gearbox oil is changed eventually, it won’t fail, if EAS is eventually replaced on the front it’ll last another decade.

You’re on a bloody Rover forum telling people not to buy Rovers...


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Not at all.

I'm saying certain people should not buy Range Rovers.
 

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++ On the comment telling Rover Forum users not to buy. I've +20 years aviation maintenance so turning a wrench isn't a big deal. Service history is good as a Hilton Head kept vehicle (they had the dealer buy the tires!!). They were due so I completed brakes and disks all around. Oil is easy with the Mityvac. Are there any recommendations for decent manual for a 2012? So far the youtube generation has had a video for the items I'm working and programmer works great, but I'm use to having a decent manual around.
 

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I agree with the original post here - makes total sense. I paid $42k in April 2016 for mine and added a $2800 warranty. At that time, it was the most I'd ever spent on a vehicle. It wasn't a stretch of my budget or anything, but I'm also not a 1%'er (yet!). I will be happy to accept $15k for it now, and that's after a $16,400 trip to the dealership for the past two months and total unexpected repairs totaling nearly $25k during my ownership.

Are most potential buyers of an 8 year old truck that originally cost over $80k expecting to spend thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars to keep it running for a few years? I really don't know, but I wouldn't think so.

I think your "average" person who is looking to make a RR their daily driver understands that parts are expensive, labor is expensive, and they're not the most reliable vehicles on the road. That's not even subjective.

But should an $80k truck that's been well-maintained leave you stranded six or eight times in a 42 month period? No.

More reliable vehicles can obviously be purchased today for $15k. Luxury brands included.
 

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Of course, I understand this is a Range Rover forum. What better forum is there to post about Range Rovers on?

They're not fools, they're just uninformed buyers. There are lots of people who don't understand there is a reasonable chance that in 2019 that 7-10-year-old truck priced at $10k-$15k might cost them their purchase price over again in repairs.

Hopefully, they don't end up like this gentlemen from this thread who seems genuinely disgusted with his experience.

(thankfully his was covered under a warranty...so good for him)

There are lots of potential buyers who use the internet for research. They need to understand that service histories are vital on these trucks and that they aren't Toyotas, deferring maintenance will bite them harder than some similarly priced used vehicles.

I'm not insulting you, or the Range Rover brand. It's not personal, and this isn't a team sport. I'm just stating facts, hoping that someone who is considering one of these trucks does a little internet research before buying them, and perhaps, just maybe, finds enough information to make an informed decision.

PS: I love the L322, and as I stated I'm particularly fond of the Ford/Jaguar engine.
Genuinely disgusted is absolutely correct.

And I love the posts. I remember researching these when I started looking, and I don't remember the timing chain issue coming up at all at that time. Granted, that was 2015/2016 so perhaps it hadn't surfaced yet.
 

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My first post asked if you knew this was a rr forum....Still stands
Most of the guys here know what they are getting into. So your rantings are a waste of space. So what makes these different from any other luxury brand? Nothing is the correct answer.
The fools that strap themselves are not going to be here looking for an I told you so. They are asking for advise.
As far as the timing etc being a diy job.....It obviously is, by the results I get
This is a good example of someone taking your post personal, OP. I don't understand it. Your post simply lays out the fact that most people looking to spend $15k on a vehicle should look right past this particular vehicle, and you're exactly right. The timing job IS NOT A DIY JOB FOR THE AVERAGE BUYER. It's awesome that leftlanetruckin can do it, but most people don't have the tools, skill, or TIME.
 

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Agreed..my 2011 SC and 2008 HSE were two of the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Besides EAS and a water pump both were incredibly reliable. The 2011 did have a replacement engine at 80,000 miles, but I put that down to 15,000 mile oil changes. My 2010 Sport did not have these issues outside of warranty.

And then my 2017 HSE that went to 100,000 miles needing 2 water pumps and that's it.
Rovers are incredibly reliable when maintained, like any other car. My fleet of 4 Chevrolet Impala 3LTs (Natural Gas) are constantly in the shop needing something. One is on the 3rd HPFR, costing $800 each.

I read your other posts, seems you're here as someone with salty past. Timing job can be done without the timing tools, or injector pullers. I've done it for under $1000 with tools.

Here's one of your other troll posts:

1. The air suspension is probably in need of new parts. You can do it bit by bit, as if fails, or just get in there and replace the wear parts.
2. Rubber and bushings need to be replaced, again you can do it piecemeal or just roll up your sleeves and do it.
3, Seals, including head gasket, and some hoses need to be replaced...again you can drag it out or just do it.
4. Gearbox needs a new filter, seals, and oil, and has probably been neglected. The same for differential service requirements.
5. There will be electronic modules that have to be replaced. Figure out the ones that will inconvenience you and replace them before they go.
6. Timing chain and tensioners, and parts need to be replaced, this will cost you thousands if you pay someone else to do it (I think it's booked as a 22 hour job), and requires some specialty tools for timing. But if you do it and are smart acquiring the tools you need, it'll cost you maybe a $1K or less. If you pay a certified tech, it's a $4-$5k job.

1. EAS is incredibly easy to repair. The only parts that ever fail are the front air bags. New OE units can be had for under $500 for the pair. Valve blocks can fail if water is in the system. They are easy to replace with a good used unit.
2. That's every car.. New rubber bushings can be done easily, front suspensions are inexpensive to service and are no harder than a soulless Toyota.
3. Head gaskets will never need to be replaced, unless you neglect the water pump or other cooling components and overheat it badly. That's every car.
4. Gearbox filter is easy. $110, $100 for fluid, and the labour is cheap. I can do the entire deal in less than an hour.
5. Electronic modules fail on every car. Rover parts aren't extremely expensive. I had to replace an amplifier in my 2007, it was $130 and 15 minutes.
6. Timing chain jobs are getting rare now. Most cars have had it done, and 06-09 will never need them. Shops can do them for under $3,000. Chevy 3.6 V6s also have a high failure rate for timing chains. So do Chevy 5 cylinders, 4 cylinders, Ford 3.5 TT V6, Hyundais, Kias, and every other manufacturer. You're saying that the entire job can be done for $1000 or less, which is BS. Replacing ONLY the tensioners and guides can, and those parts + a crank hold total up to close to $800 IIRC from my last one.

What you're saying is mostly hate troll BS, I've gathered you've never owned one of these, whereas I've owned 15+ over the years. I've bought 2 this week that needed "Thousands of dollars of work" and fixed both for under $500 each. Now I have two beautiful running and driving trucks that I can lend out to people in the snow, and sell in the spring.

I used to buy Discovery 2s that needed head gaskets before winter, before that I bought Range Rover Classics. All of these cars are going up in value and the L322 is simply a great, reliable truck that like any used car will need a little bit of love before it performs as reliably as a 2018.

Your Maserati post.. I also find that funny. I owned a 2009 Quattroporte 5th generation with the 4.7 V8. My friend owns 3 or 4 of the pre facelifts. He calls those "reliably unpredictable" until you come to the facelift with the ZF transmission.

I hadn't any issues with it! It needs to be on a battery tender, the mechanical door lock stopped working, and brakes are horribly expensive. That's my list of complaints.
I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly...

Your '11 RR has been one of the most reliable vehicles you've ever owned, but you replaced the engine at 80k miles, and you're justifying the replacement of that engine by the fact that you stuck to the manufacturer-recommended service schedule of 15k mile oil changes?
 
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