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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter #1
Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

Hi folks - I have prepared to do the transmission service on my 93 RRC and it's clear that I'll have to drop the crossmember and the exhaust in order to get the tranny pan to clear so that I can replace filter, O-rigs and gasket.

Here is my question: when I unbolt the exhaust manifolds from the engine and drop them, will I have to install NEW manifold gaskets when I rebolt them to the engine? The guy I bought the truck from replaced the gaskets less than 3k miles ago.

I am thinking that if they are virtually new, perhaps they won't need to be replaced - but I know gaskets in general do NOT like to be used more than once.

I appreciate any advice on this.

SMD.
1993 RRC SWB County Sport
Mileage: between 145K and 165K
 

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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

I did this job this weekend. I dropped the cross beam and the exhaust. PRO TIP: unplug your O2 sensors before unbolting the exhaust. The O2 wires are not long enough to go all the way down with the exhaust.

Inspect the gaskets. I bet you can just reuse them. I had to make one out of High Temp RTV because the last shop didn't reinstall the gasket making me one short. I used the VERY OLD gasket on the other side with some RTV. I hope it will hold until I get new gaskets in the mail.

http://okierover.com/blog/unplanned-problems-solved/

I don't have a post for the actual fluid and filter swap written up yet. But I'll be writing one soon. I remember the bolts and nuts for the cross member are 17mm. The exhaust were 13mm. Remember to use anti-sieze on the bolts on the exhaust when you reinstall them. A little penetrating fluid will go a long way to helping loose the exhaust bolts. Spray on and wait a bit then loosen. I had one that was very stuck and it came off real easy after I sprayed it with PB Blaster. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blaster-11-oz-Penetrating-Catalyst-Lubricant-16PB-THD/202597469
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

OkieRover: THANKS very much for the quick response and PRO tips - I am a novice wrencher and I get freaked out by big jobs like this - having this expert advice is really giving me additional confidence to tackle this........and I am TOO DANG CHEAP to pay $300 to a Stealership for something I know I can do. I am going to take some pix and write up a detailed post as to how this went - wish me luck.

SMD
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

It's not a very difficult job.
Two times, I changed the transmission cooler lines also; very messy.
I've done it 3 times now on different Classics...yuck.

Also, you will need to rig up something to get the trans crossmember out.
Sometimes they come right out, but on mine I had to use a bottlejack + pipe as a frame spreader to get the crossmember out.
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

New exhaust gaskets are a must for all the labor it takes to replace them, and how cheap they are. It would also be a good time to examine for leaks from the manifolds and replace those too if necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

I am so glad that I posted these questions for advice on how this procedure is done. Here is how little I knew: I thought that in order to drop the exhause to allow the tranny pan to be removed I would unbolt the manifolds from the Engine itself............now, after seeing some pix from OkieRover, I see that the exhaust pipes that lead from the catalytic converters are removable from the manifolds - right?

So, here are some further questions then:

If I wanted, could I drop the exhaust by removing the manifolds from the engine block? Looks like 5 or six bolts on each one and they seem to be in a pretty good spot for getting a socket on.

I ask this because the previous owner replaced the primary manifold gaskets at the block (hope that makes sense to those reading this).

So THOSE are the gasket that I said were new in my 1st post - not the smaller ones just above the cats where the pipes meet up with the manifolds. And since those are new - certainly they would *possibly* be reusable when I went to re-attach the exhaust.........?????

Thanks to everyone who previously chimed in and I look forward to feedback on this.

SMD
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

I am so glad that I posted these questions for advice on how this procedure is done. Here is how little I knew: I thought that in order to drop the exhause to allow the tranny pan to be removed I would unbolt the manifolds from the Engine itself............now, after seeing some pix from OkieRover, I see that the exhaust pipes that lead from the catalytic converters are removable from the manifolds - right?

So, here are some further questions then:

If I wanted, could I drop the exhaust by removing the manifolds from the engine block? Looks like 5 or six bolts on each one and they seem to be in a pretty good spot for getting a socket on.

I ask this because the previous owner replaced the primary manifold gaskets at the block (hope that makes sense to those reading this).

So THOSE are the gasket that I said were new in my 1st post - not the smaller ones just above the cats where the pipes meet up with the manifolds. And since those are new - certainly they would *possibly* be reusable when I went to re-attach the exhaust.........?????

Thanks to everyone who previously chimed in and I look forward to feedback on this.

SMD
Of course you could unbolt the manifolds, but you would be hard pressed to get them back on due to problems aligning them with the y-pipe on, so I wouldn't even try that. Also, the gaskets at the y-pipe squish to fit the gap when you torque them, and when you reinstall the y-pipe the alignment may be slightly different causing a leak. So, do yourself a big favor and just buy the gaskets which will run about 10-15 dollars. What you want to do is in no way worth it, trust me. I've done countless y-pipe and manifold gaskets.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

Oryx: that makes a LOT of sense man - thank you for explaining. I will order the gaskets today and prepare to do this job right.
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

I have never had to drop the exhaust, only the crossmember.
I've done it that way as well, but it is a lot easier with the exhaust out of the way.
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

Oryx: that makes a LOT of sense man - thank you for explaining. I will order the gaskets today and prepare to do this job right.
Get some PB Blaster and start spraying it on the bolts from the y-pipe to the manifolds every day till you do the job. The more the better. There are three bolts per side. These studs are the biggest unknown factor in the job because they can break when you try to remove them. Usually with the PB and taking it easy they come out, but I've had a few break, which usually means you will have to remove the manifold to get the broken stud out. One advantage to yours is that they have been done recently which means that they should come off easier. Use the PB before hand just in case.

David
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

^^ Exactly, the y-pipe to manifold bolts are the unkown ^^

I actually removed my LWB y-pipe last nite.
Soaked the 6 nuts the day before.
But they were not easy- 2 of the 6 backed the stud out.
1 ALMOST rounded off the nut-I kept stopping; hammering the socket on tight and 20 minutes later the last one was out.
It was a tough one on the passenger side(higher up).

Kroil is a great soaking oil.
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

Exhaust studs are dirt cheap. Whenever working on any exhaust I always replace them. I've had ones that come out fairly easy but snap when properly torqued again. It's just not worth the frustration or uncertainty for such an inexpensive item.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

I have never had to drop the exhaust, only the crossmember.
Ian - thanks for the feedback. So, I am thinking that you are saying that you can do the filter replacement without dropping the exhaust - but am am guessing that you are NOT able to fully remove the tranny pan and are pulling it down and as far out of the way as possible and then using some wrench/socket/swivel configuration to get at the 3 bolts that hold the filter to the valve assy?

Any chance you could lay out some details of what it took to do this without dropping the exhaust?

I LIKE the idea of NOT having to get into the exhaust headaches.

Thanks - SMD
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

Exhaust studs are dirt cheap. Whenever working on any exhaust I always replace them. I've had ones that come out fairly easy but snap when properly torqued again. It's just not worth the frustration or uncertainty for such an inexpensive item.
RRTH: I am such an absolute novice to certain things.....and how exhaust systems are put together is one. Could you explain a bit how to remove the studs at the bottom of the manifold where it meets the pipes? I am all for putting in new hardware when I do this job and am putting new gaskets in as well. So, I get a socket on the nuts - 3 each side - and with luck and patience, remove the nuts, then, how do I remove the stud itself? I guess I just don't see what the procedure is. Thanks for any additional time you might spend explaining what is probably obvious to many here!

SMD
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

There is a tool for removal of studs. I do not have one. I use the two old nuts,screw them on the stud, torqued them together and then work with the first one (top one) you have put on the stud. This way the second,(the bottom in you case) will not come loose. I personally never replace them and have no issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ATKL4G04M
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

RRTH: I am such an absolute novice to certain things.....and how exhaust systems are put together is one. Could you explain a bit how to remove the studs at the bottom of the manifold where it meets the pipes? I am all for putting in new hardware when I do this job and am putting new gaskets in as well. So, I get a socket on the nuts - 3 each side - and with luck and patience, remove the nuts, then, how do I remove the stud itself? I guess I just don't see what the procedure is. Thanks for any additional time you might spend explaining what is probably obvious to many here!

SMD
You remove just the nuts. The studs stay there. With the nuts off on both sides (6 total) the pipe will come free from the manifolds.
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

You remove just the nuts. The studs stay there. With the nuts off on both sides (6 total) the pipe will come free from the manifolds.
Thanks again everyone! (the light bulb is now dimly glowing.....) Ok, so, the studs themselves are threaded into the lower part of the Manifold, but, if I can successfully get the nuts off, no need to remove the studs UNLESS I torque one off or a stud backs out because the nut won't break free.....Or, unless I purposely remove the studs for the purpose of replacing them with new ones.

I got a can of PB Blaster and am going to spray the nuts down starting today and for the next 3 days.......I really want to be able to do this without F'ing up any of the studs. Gaskets will probably arrive tomorrow from Atlantic British and I can get started once they are here.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

There is a tool for removal of studs. I do not have one. I use the two old nuts,screw them on the stud, torqued them together and then work with the first one (top one) you have put on the stud. This way the second,(the bottom in you case) will not come loose. I personally never replace them and have no issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ATKL4G04M
Eugene: meant to thank you for the You Tube Video link - that makes it crystal clear - I kept thinking about studs like wheel lug nut studs and just didn't get how that applied to exhaust - now I see that the studs are threaded on both ends and it makes sense now.
 

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Re: Doing full tranny service on 93 RRC SWB - pretty sure I have to drop the exhaust

You are welcomed! And you are correct on both counts about the studs. It is "little tight" there to removing them, but no problem. As I recall the nuts are 12 mm. Before you drop the exhaust, unplug the 02 sensors. That is tight space also, the plugs are stuffed by the firewall and you need both hands, one to squeeze the connector and one to disconnect them. No idea, why "they" did not make the wires longer on serviceable item.
 
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