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2019-2021 Range Rover Sport
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Discussion Starter #1
Does P400E have mode where petrol engine works together with electric motor to lower fuel consumption?

This is how i drove my previous car:
  1. 50% of my kilometers was daily commute (under 15 miles per day) which could be easily done with electric mode in P400E
  2. 40% of my kilometers were under 200 miles per day, and if P400E has 'combined' mode and if i could get the low fuel consumption somewhere near the LR numbers for the range of 200 miles, i would be sooooo happy.
  3. 10% of my kilometers are my vacation trips and hybrid won't help me there.
Thanks
 

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All of the P400e specifications and details for your market are on the LR site for your country. All models share a single click on the home page to choose a model. In this case you are choosing the P400e regardless of what model you want it in. That comes later.

You will need to do your own homework for your market because things can vary quite a bit between markets. For instance some markets had this available for 2018 model ordering. The NAS has always had this as being a 2019 release on our website. All P400 have aversion of "combined" mode. It's called something else in the marketing materials but does the same thing to ensure the best mileage possible in such a heavy vehicle.

There are lots of options and features we don't get here in the NAS market. We didn't even get diesels until a few years ago.
 

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2019-2021 Range Rover Sport
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Discussion Starter #3
I read the all specs, FAQs and brochures and fine print i could find, but there is no info about the range i'm looking for.

Only range/consumption metric i could find is combined consumption 3.2 L/100km or 88.3 mpg, nothing else.

Asked my dealer (the only one in country) and they don't have a clue, as this is the first call to order where hybrid can be ordered for my country.
 

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Well you can log onto the US website and see if it has any range info. Again though it may not be accurate for your market. I know I have not seen any range info that jumped out at me but I am not looking that closely at the new power plant.
 

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2019-2021 Range Rover Sport
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Discussion Starter #6
yeah, same thing here
 

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isn't this what you're looking for? and btw there are a ton of videos on youtube, they sure answer all questions about the PHEV
DRIVING MODES

Choose from Parallel Hybrid mode (the default driving mode) which combines gas and electric drive or the full electric drive of EV (Electric Vehicle) mode


 

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So they are calling "combined" as "Parallel Hybrid" Electric only is limited to 31 miles. If your charge reaches zero you still have the standard engine for long range driving.
 

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2019-2021 Range Rover Sport
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Discussion Starter #10
That's it!

Great, so there is a parallel hybrid mode. As i said, i read the whole website, seen all the promotion videos, but somehow i missed this fact.

But i'm quite sure that they did not gave the info about range in that parallel hybrid mode nor the fuel consumption.

They gave the combined consumption numbers (3.2 L/100km or 88.3 mpg) which are probably the numbers from combined city and highway numbers, but they haven't stated how many electric miles are used in calculation, what's the range of the parallel hybrid mode (because when the battery runs out, car switches to pure petrol mode until enough energy is recovered from slowing down / braking), what's the combined consumption in parallel hybrid mode, or anything like that.

The only important number i've managed to remember is 51 km or 30 miles as pure electric range.
 

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In fact the charge never reaches zero as you are always topped up by regenerative breaking. So you always have the extra burst of acceleration for over taking another vehicle etc. So you are never limited to just teh 2.0l engine which is what i was originally worried about.
 

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I get that, but i'm not interested in boost effects of parallel hybrid mode, i'm interested in fuel consumption. So basically if i go and drive 1500 miles non stop what will be my fuel consumption. My guess is it will be close to consumption of RRS with 2.0 ingenium engine. But if we're consider 200 miles and parallel hybrid mode, i guess there will be considerable fuel saving as the car tries to balance petrol and electric engine and for that reason it lowers consumption.

I seriously doubt that regeneration can recover energy for things other than time to time power boost, and for that reason i'm arguing that at certain point battery will deplete to low level. My question is after how much miles that happens?

I hoped that there are members who own P400e and maybe know this info from their experience.
 

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I understand what you want to know, but today it’s worldwide the first deliveries of P400e cars and for sure there are 0 valid user experiences.

But your request is anyway not easy to answer, as either for PHEV, EV or regular Cars you get such informations, as driving style, geography and weather changes the consumption of.cars dramatically.

Fact is, P400e is usually starting every trip automatically in parallel mode, so the computer decides the best combination to get most out of the range.
Best results you get by entering your destination in the navigation, then the computer calculates including geographic facts on your way.

I had a pre P400e and tested a bit, but fully understanding comes after a few thousand miles.

I am sure, driving the car entered with destination will always be more efficient than the petrol only version can be, because I own the old RRS diesel hybrid and the added weight of the hybrid technology was overcompensated by the return of electric energy compared to the same engine using diesel only.

Best
René
 

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That makes sense. I was under impression that Full Size Range Rover started a year earlier with phev model but it seems i was wrong.

This info about sat nav and optimization for fuel consumption is very interesting.

Thanks
 

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My understanding was as well that the battery will never be empty as the car will charge the battery - I assume not only by regenerative braking as this recuperation is very minimal. So probably the fuel engine will recharge the battery to a certain point but I'm not sure about this.

I owned a tesla before and can tell you that generative breaking is very helpful for breaking but not for recharging the battery. If this is the only system they use for recharging, you will reach a point where the battery is completely empty.

Take 51 km with a grain of salt as probably this will mean around 30 km in real life. And as mentioned before one of the most important parameters for a battery is temperature (thermal management). So be aware that when it's cold outside you may easily lose another 10 - 15% of the capacity of the battery. (at least this was the case with my tesla)

Some more info on the driving modes from a brochure I could find:
INTRODUCING NEW
RANGE ROVER SPORT
PLUG-IN HYBRID
ELECTRIC VEHICLE
PHEV’s CO2 emissions are from 64g/km making it our
lowest emission powertrain yet. See page 14.
Capability, performance and cutting-edge technologies are at the heart of every Land Rover.
Taking our vehicles into the future, electric power now propels us into an exciting new era.
Our first ever Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV), is driven by our most innovative powertrain
yet; an advanced Ingenium petrol engine and electric motor combine to give an output of 404PS
and deliver 0-100km/h in 6,7 seconds, together with CO2 emissions from 64g/km*. With a full electric
charge, it has a range of up to 51km*. Drivers can select from two driving modes to best suit their
needs. See pages 14-17 for details.
Parallel Hybrid mode (the default driving mode) – combined petrol and electric drive. When in
Parallel Hybrid mode, the driver can optimise battery charge or fuel economy by utilising two
alternative charge management functions:
SAVE function – prevents the battery charge dropping below the level which has been selected
Predictive Energy Optimisation (PEO) function – by entering a destination in the Navigation
system the driver enables the feature, which utilises altitude data for the route selected to
intelligently switch between the electric motor and petrol engine to maximise fuel economy
EV (Electric Vehicle) mode – full electric drive.**
In addition to the benefits described above, an increasing number of major cities are introducing
vehicle restrictions and charges from which drivers of PHEV vehicles could be exempt.
CABIN PRECONDITIONING
You can pre-heat or, uniquely to PHEV, pre-cool the
cabin before you get into the vehicle without starting
the engine, making life that bit more comfortable.
See page 15.

*Official EU test figures. For comparison purposes only. Real world figures may differ. Low fuel warning at 9 litres
approximately.
**Parallel Hybrid mode will be automatically re-engaged should the driver require more power
and torque than is available, or the battery charge drops to an insufficient level to maintain progress.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Here's the ZF transmission that has the built-in electric motor as a kit that makes any vehicle that uses that transmission a hybrid https://www.zf.com/corporate/en_de/products/product_range/cars/cars_8_speed_plug_in_hybrid_transmission.shtml

I'm kinda disappointed that Land Rover went the way of using the outsourced technology to make their vehicles hybrid. I know that that's how the car companies operate for the last few decades but it doesn't build trust that Land Rover has a good grip on new emerging technologies and transition to fully electric vehicles.

Now i'm interested more in learning about I-Pace to learn whether the car itself is also using outsourced EV technology or is it developed in-house.
 

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I don’t see the point „outsourcing“ negative, that’s the usual car business nowadays. JLR got more reliable since they started to work and invest into better suppliers.
Please mind, the existing V6 Engines are also not in house own constructions, just adapted and the cable electric is from valeo, the ZF 8 speed gears are serving Porsche, BMW, etc.,...

Same for the ZF Hybrid drivetrain, its in the BMW X5 since years, Tuareg, 1st Cayenne and Panamera Hybrid and a few more.

The LR engineers are still great how they construct and adapt the right techniques together.
By the way, not any other competitor offering the full electric off-road gear(coaster) and drive, only LR.

For the the fully electric future, in general that’s less complex and easier to handle than Hybrid technology for car makers. I prefere they adapt existing top end technology from 3rd party and optimize this, so they can bring the cars on the road instead of loosing time to the competition.

Best Rene
 

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Godza, you really need to learn about the automotive industry supply chains. ALL car companies outsource. A car company will out source production of parts or assemblies to third party suppliers. These suppliers can make specialized parts with better quality, higher quantities and faster than doing it themselves. This is nothing new and certainly not something limited to the "last few decades". Many mainstay car companies have done this for over a hundred years. It's all about partnering up for the best quality parts for the best quality finished assembled product.

Since you brought up transmissions... ZF produces transmissions for automotive, marine and military applications. LR has used the progression of ZF transmissions for decades. So has many other car companies. LR has also used tried and true transmissions from GM and Chrysler. Many V8 and V6 engines are still supplied by Ford. Diesel engines from BMW can be found around the world in different makes including LR products for several models and generations. Glass has been supplied by Pilkington. Valeo for climate control. Behr and Nissen for cooling products. The supply chain list of companies is long, changing and evolving and all of these companies ship parts to the various assembly plants.
 
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