[OldMike]

I was looking at what appears to be a nice looking 2002 RR HSE on eBay (see http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HSE-...STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_19504wt_1010 ) and decided to check the free CarFax report -- yikes! Structural damage and accident history.

Does that kind of history bother anyone else, or is it just me?

Is the Buy it Now price ($7,500) really a good price? The bids are up to $6,000 which I figured would be a good price for the vehilce (65k miles) without the structural damage/accident history.

Am I just too picky, or what?

 

[mandingoman]

I was looking at what appears to be a nice looking 2002 RR HSE on eBay (see http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HSE-...STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_19504wt_1010 ) and decided to check the free CarFax report -- yikes! Structural damage and accident history.

Does that kind of history bother anyone else, or is it just me?

Is the Buy it Now price ($7,500) really a good price? The bids are up to $6,000 which I figured would be a good price for the vehilce (65k miles) without the structural damage/accident history.

Am I just too picky, or what?

I am just like you...the carfax is the second thing I look after checking out the car...Personnaly I would not buy a car with structural damage...so I agree with you...

 

[nosaint]

I'd sell you mine for that price, its a US car!

Depends on how they fixed it up. To make money or to do it right. Ask to see any accident pictures and then judge from there. I repaired a Jeep Cherokee from salvage. Had to get a frame inspection, then a complete inspection so that when it was done basically you knew everything was as good as new.

Course the laws may be different where you are

 

[OldMike]

I know that CarFax can be misleading at times, and maybe the damage isn't so bad, but there are other cars out there that haven't been damaged, so the price would have to be right to get me to even look at a damaged vehicle.

I passed up a pretty good deal recently on an 04 Jaguar because of the "checkered" past per CarFax. When I pointed out my concerns to the seller, he agreed that the history was a problem but he wouldn't come any more on the price, so I passed on it. He's a local (Palm Beach) used car dealer who I know pretty well, so I know he was trying to at least re-coup his cost -- the car was purchased for the company by one of his auction buyers who, obviously, has some learning to do! LOL

 

[marty_nz]

If it's had structural damage, then they must have fixed it up pretty well...

The listing says that the carfax report doesn't list any airbag deployment - so that to me says that it can't have been a bad crash that it was in. Maybe it was rear ended and the 'structural damage' was to the bumper/tailgate area?

The only thing that doesn't ring true for me is that it has Vitesse on the back. According to the Rangerovers.net home page, under the model specs, the latest year with a 'special edition' Vitesse, was 2000. From the home page:

4.6 HSE Vitesse Edition Suggested Retail Price $67,652 (Kelley Blue Book) had Navigation system standard. All were black with walnut leather; the Phone kit was not available. They had wood around the power window switches and had yellow turn signals like the county and like the County and HSK the Vitesse sticker was not as raised as the other stickers on the tailgate.

The colour scheme doesn't match obviously... So either the tailgate has been changed for one from a Vitesse and they have kept/replaced the sticker, it's had the sticker added to try and increase the value... or there IS a 2002 Vitesse which isn't listed on the home page for that model year...

Still looks like a nice vehicle though - Even with the carfax report, I'd still be interested in at least seeing it upfront and seeing any pictures of the structural damage..

Marty

 

[mattau]

I think we would all be surprised by what cars might have been through before we got them! It wouldn't surprise me if a lot have had some shunts, which have been repaired and are no longer noticeable. This ad carfax report says it hit a barrier, front/front left damage. Feb in New York, maybe spun out on some ice? Doesn't sound major to me, especially if no airbag deployment. It was also back in 2003, and the car has done 40+k miles since then, so that suggests it has been repaired reasonably well. Maybe in an ideal situation I would agree with you, I would probably prefer a car that has never been damaged, but if it's been repaired well, it wouldn't put me off. Saying that, not having looked at a carfax report before, would "structural damage" be used for a bent bumper? Or would it refer to something more serious (bent frame?) Above all though, there is no substitute for looking at the car. At least the RR is easy enough to get under and have a good look around.

 

[marty_nz]

It would have to be a massive impact to bend the chassis on a P38... have you seen how solid they are!!

Yes, it would be easy to damage some bodywork/bumper etc - and maybe some of the interior bodywork that holds the panels in place was damaged, and could be deemed as 'structural' but the actual chassis itself is stupidly tough..

This was posted up on a P38 facebook page I'm a group on a few days ago...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-crash-Boy-5-hip-broke-car-smashed-wall.html

Look at how mangled the back of the car is that got shunted by the RR... then watch the video, and they show a shot of the front of the RR... Yes, it's not nice to see a P38 bashed up like that, but looking at the rear of the other car - I can tell you what I'd prefer to be in!! Considering the amount of force it would have taken to a damage the back of the other car like that, and shove it through a brick wall, I think the P38 came out of it alright... Obviously, not good that children were injured etc.. and I hope they are all ok... but, even though the P38 would no doubt be declared a 'write off', I'd say it would still be fixable... well, a lot more that the other car!!

Guess my point is.. that whilst the carfax may list 'structural damage' and if it's been in an argument with a barrier, all of the important components (chassis etc) are most likely to all be fine - and as Matt points out - if the accident was in 2003 and it's had 40K mile put on it since then, I personally don't think there's likely to be anything wrong with it, as it would have been flagged up a long time ago!

 

[OldMike]

Well, some very well-reasoned replies here.

There's a used car dealership in Florida that has a reputation of selling cars that have had structural damage. I've checked out a few of them and there doesn't appear to be any issues -- at least not noticeably so. I have had cars in the past that were banged up, repaired, and then just never "tracked" right again -- not very obvious to anyone but me, but enough to make be hate the car and get rid of it!

I doubt that a test drive would reveal a minor issue like that but after driving a few thousand miles or more, I'd get real annoyed if it wasn't tracking right. Other than that, structural damage that doesn't effect the operation of the vehicle isn't a deal killer if the price is right.

Also, someone here mentioned the fact that the damage was a long time ago, and many miles ago - this can tell me that the damage isn't/wasn't bad or was properly repaired -- or that the owner just isn't as picky as I am! :grin:

 

[sydneyman]

is it just me or did the RR have some bling in the grill? Looks like its gotten the "RR Sport" treatment. especially odd if true because apparently the guy was 80!

 

[hjames710]

is it just me or did the RR have some bling in the grill? Looks like its gotten the "RR Sport" treatment. especially odd if true because apparently the guy was 80!

Looks like a normal P38 grill to me.

Is it possible that the tailgate which says Vitesse was swapped from an older actual Vitesse RR?

 

[LarryS]

He's talking about the awful drilled/coloured grill on the crashed one. The front on the one for sale looks screwy though and decals missing (or position/gapped wrong) is always a good indication of something perhaps not right, even if you didn't have it in black and white in a report...for free.

 

[sydneyman]

oops yeah meant the one in the video.:thumb:

 

[hjames710]

oops yeah meant the one in the video.:thumb:

My bad.

Maybe his grandsons car? I'm sure it was totaled. Looks like a '99.

 

[mattau]

I wouldn't be so sure the RR is totalled. No doubt the insurance co might want to take that as the easier option though! Most modern cars are designed to fold for accidents, but this isn't always a write off. I would guess also that the RR hit the Caddy higher up, hence the Caddy seems to have lost its entire boot. But as Marty pointed out, the chassis rails on the RR are massive, so the chassis might have got away unscathed. Interesting original thread though. I wouldn't have considered getting a "write off", but as it happens, my RR was a Cat D (lowest type of UK insurance write off). I only found out having already decided and travelled to buy it. Turns out it was an insurance write off early 2003 (mine is a 2000 car), so would have depreciated a fair amount, but was pretty much brand new (and still expensive). Often cars go Cat D when they are stolen and then recovered. Either way, at almost 10 years ago I decided it was still a reasonable deal. Fingers crossed it seems ok so far.....! (Usual P38 things aside!)

 

[OldMike]

I was reading another ad for a P38 and had to laugh out loud -- the seller said the car spent its entire life in Georgia and Florida -- funny that the car is now for sale in NY and according to the CarFax link that's part of the ad, the car was in FL, NC, and for most of it's life, in SC. Again, don't people read the CarFax? Sure turns me off when the CarFax contradicts the seller like that. Makes me wonder what else he's saying that might not be true.

 

[mattau]

I know what you mean, it would be nice if people were just honest about cars they want to sell, as even if they are "hiding" something minor, it makes you wonder about everything else. I went to see an "excellent condition" car recently... It was at best average, and that's before we get on to the fact that the front wing had been half ripped off! When I asked seller about the "excellent condition", he said, "well, it is, apart from the front wing"! haha. I had to laugh. Didn't buy the car of course....

 

[marty_nz]

What also peeves me off is when on an eBay auction for example they list the vehicle in "great condition for its age" and then go on to list all the 'little things' that need looking at.. Good on them for being honest, but it just frustrates me, as a P38 owner to read this drivel and know that some of the things they're dismissing as minor issues are actually not minor, or just due to negligence and lack of serving etc.

If it really is a "cheap, 10 minute fix" then why haven't they done it themselves, and then sold the vehicle as fully working, where it would be then in a great condition... I also laugh at the fact they all put "no time wasters please"... When if you've got a vehicle with knows issues, of course people as going to want to bargain for it... Spend a day fixing all the niggly "quick fixes" you've listed on the auction, and then you're in a better position to sell the vehicle. And in my opinion, you're likely to get a better quality buyer too!

I went over my one I bought pretty thoroughly when I bought it, but had I dug a bit deeper I would have found more issues than the apparent ones... I probably would have still bought it, because it was the colour I wanted, and had all the extras too.. Also being 5miles from home and cheaper than some of the others I looked at, clinched the deal...

Even though there have been a few more issues than I expected, I've enjoyed the learning curve of doing more of the work myself!

Marty

Sent from my S4

 

[OldMike]

I wonder if a lot of buyers just fall in love with the photos and buy it sight-unseen?

I went to a used car dealership in South Florida about 60 miles from my house after finding a very nice looking car that I was very interested in buying. The price was close to what I'd pay, and the photos made the car look like showroom new condition. I showed up unannounced and asked if I could just look around at the cars they had -- of course, they let me. They had a large "showroom" that was actually a very large garage with a very high ceiling and poor lighting. I found the car and could see many door dings and scratches that didn't show up in the photos. I asked if I could see the car in better lighting -- this is the answer I got --- First (he told me) I'd have to agree on a price, then he'd pull the cars out that were blocking it in so we could get it outside so I could look at it, and only look, not drive. I said I couldn't negotiate a price without first seeing it in better lighting and hearing the engine run. He said "We're not a test drive facility, we're an internet business!" I left.

Someone probably bought the car from out of state and was very disappointed when they got it delivered.

 

[Joe-S]

I'm pretty sure it does happen. It happened to me when I bought my other car. I saw it in poor lighting (underground parking), had reeeeally low mileage, fell in love, drove it around out in the open, (in hindsight, I should've gotten out to inspect it further), and I went for it. After owning it I noticed the shoddy bodywork on one of the fenders. It turns out it had a front end crash (radiator frame was replaced). I don't regret it, the car is still running strong, but I would've fought for a better deal. Also, we have nothing such as CarFax here. You either have an honest "mechanic" friend or you know your stuff and start knocking on the body panels looking for body filler. I learned my lesson the hard way.