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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

It comes with a heavy heart, and after just 3 months of ownership, that my beautiful 4l p38 Westminster has been subject to a roadside collision. It was parked on the side of the street where I live and was hit head on by a driver that wasn't concentrating.

The damage to the Westy is reasonably substantial and I'm worried that my insurer will write the car off based on a combination of scarcity of parts / labour costs / too much trouble to repair. Given the rarity of the car and the appreciating value (not least the fact I've fallen in love with it), I'd hate to see it take the stairway to car heaven.

I wondered if anyone could review the images of the damage and provide a prognosis (as best they can) on what needs to be done, how easy that will be and what the cost could look like. Bonnet and wings look reasonably ok. From what I can tell myself without inspecting underneath the car, the bodywork from the bonnet down needs to be replaced (tricky because its Bonatti Grey), fog lights destroyed, damage to headlights and wipers, radiator damaged and likely need replacing. Rest of the body panels look ok so hoping that the chassis hasn't buckled, but hard to tell. Annoyingly, I hadn't gotten around to finding the EKA code and the collision has triggered the immobiliser so the ignition won't turn.

I currently only have pictures in the dark as at last night but will update the post shortly with daylight pictures for more clarity.

Really appreciate any help with regards what to do in this situation, and potentially how to deal with the insurer (I'm fully comp with Admiral). I can see three p38 Westminsters for sale on eBay currently valued at: £5k (with overheating fault), £9.5k (diesel) and £10k (diesel). But none of them are the Westminster I fell in love with!

Many thanks,
Adam
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Doesn't look too bad to me. Not sure if the radiator will be damaged, AC condenser and oil cooler are in front of the radiator, but it will have destroyed the washer reservoir so that could be the puddle. To fix it yourself with parts from a breaker would be pretty easy but insurers don't use parts from breakers so would likely want to put it into a bodyshop and repair with all new parts. That could easily push the cost over what they consider it worth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Richard, really appreciate your response.

I agree its not in too bad shape but also agree with the view that your standard insurer won't go through the hassle of repairing something old. I don't suppose you know what would normally happen in this scenario? Would an insurer compensate the market price of the vehicle and allow me to buy it back off them for scrap value, allowing me to undertake the repairs myself? I'm a bit green with all this and bought the car as a labour of love and to become more mechanically savvy.

Much appreciated
Adam
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Not sure how it works these days and it will vary with each insurance company. Many years ago my partner had a Porsche 924 which was hit on the front corner needing a front bumper and wing. Insurance company wrote it off as the parts alone, buying brand new, would have been over a grand and they valued the car at £1800. She bought it back for £200 so they let her keep the car and gave her £1600. I got a secondhand wing (bolt on) and repaired the fibreglass bumper for under £100 all in. However, I understand that a lot of insurers will no longer allow you to do that but in your case you have a claim against the driver that hit it (assuming you know who it was) so it is his insurance companies problem and not yours. Or you take the hit (or see if the person that hit is would be willing to bung you a few hundred rather than lose his no claims) and don't go through the insurance, at least that way it won't be shown on the V5 as being a rebuilt write off.

As for the damage. Yes, the bottom of the radiator is damaged so it will need a rad, but there is virtually no damage other than cosmetic, nothing structural. I can put you in touch with a friend who buys P38s to break so could supply everything you would need, all you would probably need to do would be get the panels resprayed in the correct colour. Where in the country are you?
 

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First I don't know anything about insurance in UK.
But this Range need new bumper, side light, plastic under headlight and front grille. All parts can be placed in one hour time.
The condenser looks bad, but In realty they are strong and I not see any "freon" leaks around hit from plastic.

This is nothing serious, may be 200-500 hundred from local auto scrapers.



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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Richard
Not sure how it works these days and it will vary with each insurance company. Many years ago my partner had a Porsche 924 which was hit on the front corner needing a front bumper and wing. Insurance company wrote it off as the parts alone, buying brand new, would have been over a grand and they valued the car at £1800. She bought it back for £200 so they let her keep the car and gave her £1600. I got a secondhand wing (bolt on) and repaired the fibreglass bumper for under £100 all in. However, I understand that a lot of insurers will no longer allow you to do that but in your case you have a claim against the driver that hit it (assuming you know who it was) so it is his insurance companies problem and not yours. Or you take the hit (or see if the person that hit is would be willing to bung you a few hundred rather than lose his no claims) and don't go through the insurance, at least that way it won't be shown on the V5 as being a rebuilt write off.

As for the damage. Yes, the bottom of the radiator is damaged so it will need a rad, but there is virtually no damage other than cosmetic, nothing structural. I can put you in touch with a friend who buys P38s to break so could supply everything you would need, all you would probably need to do would be get the panels resprayed in the correct colour. Where in the country are you?
Hi Richard,

That would be really helpful if you wouldn't mind putting me in touch. I foresee that the the insurance company may quote a much higher price for the parts and labour to fix it, so if I could get a quote from your friend for the parts, that might help my case for it not to be scrapped. I essentially need to persuade the insurer that the car is valuable and that the repairs aren't that bad if you know what you're doing.

I live in London but I also travel to see family in Midlands area sometimes.

Cheers,
Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
First I don't know anything about insurance in UK.
But this Range need new bumper, side light, plastic under headlight and front grille. All parts can be placed in one hour time.
The condenser looks bad, but In realty they are strong and I not see any "freon" leaks around hit from plastic.

This is nothing serious, may be 200-500 hundred from local auto scrapers.



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Hi there, thanks for your message.

I live in London and the repairs here will be quite expensive, especially as it will need to be towed to a Range Rover specialist to sort the EKA out. I will try and look around for some quotes tomorrow based on the pictures (wont be easy) and use this as evidence for my discussions with my insurer.

Cheers,
Adam
 

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Speak to your local Land Rover dealer and ask them for a printout for the car. That will give you the EKA along with plenty of other details (radio code, lockset barcode, build date, specifications, etc). You'll probably need to show them your V5 to prove it is your car, but they should be able to give you all the information from their computer system free of charge. Not quite sure why the impact would have caused the immobiliser to kick in, usually that only happens if you lock with the fob and unlock with the key.

I'll PM you the details for the parts but your best bet would be to have a good look at what is damaged, make a list and then visit to get the parts you need. He's just disposed of a 2001 Vogue which would have supplied everything you are likely to need.
 

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Adam, is it definitely the immobiliser that tripped from the impact, or the inertia switch in the kick panel?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Adam, is it definitely the immobiliser that tripped from the impact, or the inertia switch in the kick panel?
Hi Malibu,

You're right to mention it. I actually just managed to get the engine going. The force of the impact jammed the steering wheel in place and it just needed a tough wiggle, along with the ignition key, to enable me to turn the key. So it wasn't the immobiliser after all.

It started on the first full turn! I kept it running for half an hour and it got up to temperature and maintained it. No water leak from the radiator. Remarkably the indicator and the fog light (dangling down by the wire) work and those are the only warning lights on the dashboard, so I think it might be driveable...! I think the radiator will need to be replaced still but that might be the only serious area of repair. The rest is just replacement bodywork and lights. Whether its all covered on insurance, we'll have to wait and see...

Cheers,
Adam
 

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In the US if you have your insurance company repair or total it out under the collision coverage you will pay your deductible and they will then go after the other driver's insurance to recover what they paid out. If they eventually recover, you will receive all or part of your deductible back.
If it's a total loss and your insurer pays, they calculate market value and salvage value. If you opt to keep the salvage they deduct salvage value and deductible and require you to drop collision coverage. Very similar process if you go through the other driver's insurance except for the collision deductible part. In the US you always have the option to keep your vehicle if you're willing to accept their assessment, or negotiate a salvage value more favorable to you.
 

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Have you checked the chassis rails? Check underneath and within the engine compartment and make sure they are straight and no signs of rucking anywhere. If OK then repair should be pretty straightforward. If not, then it will be a bit of a task to repair and require professional jigging!
 

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Take a look here: ABI dealing with third party claims and here: ABI write offs
You didn't say whether you have the other driver's insurance details, but assuming you do, the job of their third party insurance is to put you back in the position you were before the incident, no better and no worse. I've used this to argue both with my own and third party insurers over the years with great success. Good luck, and don't let the b*****ds fob you off, cus they will definitely try!
 

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I think you need to get the car off the road before some jobsworth books you for a dangerous car on the road. I would repair it as its mainly bolt on parts. The front chassis and inner wing structure are rusty enough to need a patch or two. Get the steering checked for alignment, you might need the offside track rod. If you have trouble with the perps. insurance company, then a small claims court will be an option. I hope you get it fixed, as it looks too good to scrap. I pulled out a 1993 Classic R/R out in the back yard after it wrapped itself around a tree and the whole car was a banana. New roof, doors, and good polish. I drove it 375 miles home with a tarpaulin gaffer taped over the damage. They are pretty strong vehicles, just need a good Porta Pack to move the stiff bits.
 

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Hi all,

It comes with a heavy heart, and after just 3 months of ownership, that my beautiful 4l p38 Westminster has been subject to a roadside collision. It was parked on the side of the street where I live and was hit head on by a driver that wasn't concentrating.

The damage to the Westy is reasonably substantial and I'm worried that my insurer will write the car off based on a combination of scarcity of parts / labour costs / too much trouble to repair. Given the rarity of the car and the appreciating value (not least the fact I've fallen in love with it), I'd hate to see it take the stairway to car heaven.

I wondered if anyone could review the images of the damage and provide a prognosis (as best they can) on what needs to be done, how easy that will be and what the cost could look like. Bonnet and wings look reasonably ok. From what I can tell myself without inspecting underneath the car, the bodywork from the bonnet down needs to be replaced (tricky because its Bonatti Grey), fog lights destroyed, damage to headlights and wipers, radiator damaged and likely need replacing. Rest of the body panels look ok so hoping that the chassis hasn't buckled, but hard to tell. Annoyingly, I hadn't gotten around to finding the EKA code and the collision has triggered the immobiliser so the ignition won't turn.

I currently only have pictures in the dark as at last night but will update the post shortly with daylight pictures for more clarity.

Really appreciate any help with regards what to do in this situation, and potentially how to deal with the insurer (I'm fully comp with Admiral). I can see three p38 Westminsters for sale on eBay currently valued at: £5k (with overheating fault), £9.5k (diesel) and £10k (diesel). But none of them are the Westminster I fell in love with!

Many thanks,
Adam
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Hello,
Same occurrence opposite side a few years back. Damage appears very similar. The bumper absorbed most of the impact and if as in my case may have slightly deformed the metal "beams" that attach the bumper to the chassis rail. I decided it wasn't going to be up to any insurance company to determine the repair. Ordered a new bumper, used head and side light, the lower finisher, etc. When the insurance adjuster showed up I presented him with the parts invoices and time estimate for repair. He did not quibble and wrote a check on the spot. I now make sure to keep "Betty" out of range of my neighbor and her phone. If of any help the insurance check was for $ 2,200+.
 
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