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Premium Member
1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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455 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Let me explain.. there was another thread here
NO diagnostics
but since a lot of things happened.. only not the desired result.

I have a non starting Diesel manual P38 in here, it is a highland edition for the Italian market. I suspect it is on its second BECM. The key looks dodgy but has a good battery.
It doesn't accept the EKA I received from LandRover GB


I have tried every diagnostic line about 17 times.
Everything communicates as you could wish, except the BECM. Even the HEVAC.

So I have had at last another p38 in, unfortunately it is a petrol 4.6 with a brake problem.
But it served well to test every other ECU apart from the Diesel engine ECU.

So at last I could check out the BECM
it starts the other p38 just fine (thanks to Blackbox I could store my settings :mrgreen: )
the Engine ECU code is CORRECT.
it operates the WORKING (not the stuck one) door locks on the OTHER car.

all door locks open and shut when I turn the key n the offending one.
the driver door lock has been tested with Marty's patented instructions ©

the EKA is correct
it is not in lockout. (great news, but then I can unlock them)

In the offending p38 the only OTHER errors are ABS related ( i have disconnected that and the HEVAC as well to test )
¡¡AND!!

the engine ECU produces an immobilizer link error.

Can this prevent BECM communication?

I had the non communicating BECM issue in another P38 before but then it was a door lock.
HERE all door locks are good ( i replaced a rear one which wasn't)

Or does anyone ( ¿¿ MARTY ?? ) have another idea :?:
 

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Premium Member
1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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455 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
PS.
I have put in the EKA about 10 times. VERY slowly. The boss did it another 5 times. ALL door latches click and do their thing.
But nothing flashes or says wrong code. There isn't even an error not the display apart from the usual window stuff that you get after disconnecting the battery.
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover Classic
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1,413 Posts
if it is immobilized, yes you will not be able to communicate with Becm because it thinks it is being stolen and thus locks it self from further comms.
Marty or Scotty may be able to assist, I have not had major Becm issues on p38's in a while thus not as sharp as with other models.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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113 Posts
Annette, you are sure it has nothing to do with C102 connector behind the trim panel on footwell by the inertia switch? I saw Marty mentioned that in the post you reference above, but I dont think I saw that you had checked that connection. When I had a problem with my Nano Connecting I found that C102 had water dripping on it and was green with corrosion. I cleaned up the connection, and applied dielectric grease. I was then able to communicate to all ECU's with my nanocom.

C102.jpg
 

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Premium Member
1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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455 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited by Moderator)
Thank you .
Yes I cleaned them off and many others. There was green corrosion in a fair amount of plugs.

MARTY or BOLT pleeeease read
What I am thinking now is...

IF the BECM is not locked AND starts another car (don't worry the settings are back as before MINUS the immobilizer and alarm)
THEN it is not the BECM that 'thinks' the car is being stolen.
IF all door locks move as they should these are NOT interfering with my EKA

WHAT is between the BECM and the locks that STORES the immobilizer state?

A virtual BeerCoin for any good answer!!
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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417 Posts
I don't know if this will help but I recently set off my alarm, and the immobilizer was on(in the computer center),
and it would not start until I turned the key to the left for 2 seconds and back to the right(lock) all of the windows rolled up and presto when I UNLOCKED the immobilizer was off. I was nervous for a minute. It would not run by just turning the key to the left to unlock.
Good Luck
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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1,422 Posts
This is a long shot, but happened to me on my 02. Same symptoms
Remove the door sill trim plate on the right side and lift out the wire bundle that is below.
Remove the junk tape they used to wrap the bundles, and carefully inspect all the wires with particular attention to splices or nicks in the wiring.
On mine, the obvious cause of the eventual failure of 6 wires in the loom including OBDII to Becm lines! was that someone on the assembly line had slammed the door shut on the wire bundle before the rubber stripping was installed. This caused a series of nicked wires, the diagonal pattern of which, exactly corresponded to the entry and exit of the loom when it was hanging out of the truck.
Of course, they did not replace the wires, just put more crappy tape on the nicked bits and hid that with more factory junk tape.
Add moisture (Got that in CR?) and I found 4 of the 6 wires to be corroded through thus no connection. Perhaps the same dolt on the line did yours too?
Happy hunting!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover Classic
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The Becm receives the input from key thru door lock and or remote, vehicle unlocks alarm is deactivated. key or key fob goes into ignition barrel and a virtual handshake is performed, Becm double checks the rolling code generated during the virtual handshake and sends the signal for ecu to receive mobilize code.
security and mobilization is housed, generated and controlled by Becm.

basically your engine ecu is not accepting the virtual handshake. I have a Becm sidds it is 54 pages long on pdf. long story short it says to check all power connections on the engine fuse box.

I am trying to convert and make it available or share thru email, my pc is a mac and does not like sharing with windows programs.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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1,426 Posts
You transferred the diesel BECM into the petrol p38 and reprogrammed it with the petrol settings and it ran. This proves the BECM is OK I would say, inc the logic board and the diagnostic connectors.

You then reprogrammed the diesel settings back into the BECM with Faultmate while in the petrol car and fitted it back into the diesel and it shows an engine immobiliser link fault? to me this means the BECM has the wrong immobilisation code.

To be clear, you read the immobilisation code from the Bosch diesel engine ECU while in the diesel car and wrote the same code into the diesel BECM when fitted in the petrol car? It is the only way you can do it as the petrol does not have the right engine harness to fit the diesel ECU and you can't read or write to the BECM when fitted to the diesel car because of a wiring fault.

You say you suspect the BECM has been changed. Did the car ever run with the BECM it currently has? or was it towed in?

It sounds like two faults to me: a wiring harness or plug connector fault on the diagnostic line to the BECM and wrong diesel settings in the BECM. As well as the immobilisation code, there is an early and late version of the EDC. If the BECM was changed it may have been set incorrectly. I think the change over year was around 1997. Try switching it from early to late or vice versa.

Another reason for not starting is a problem with the FIP. It has a stop solenoid in it.
 

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Premium Member
1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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455 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I am trying to convert and make it available or share thru email, my pc is a mac and does not like sharing with windows programs.
My Mac is a Mac and doesn't like windows either..
PLEEEEASE share. Unless it is the wiring diagram, got that.

____________________________________________

To be clear, you read the immobilisation code from the Bosch diesel engine ECU while in the diesel car and wrote the same code into the diesel BECM when fitted in the petrol car?
Yes, exactly.
BTW it happened to be the right one stored in the BECM, I wrote it down on a paper AND on top of the BECM's lid. And saved it in my computer.

You say you suspect the BECM has been changed. Did the car ever run with the BECM it currently has? or was it towed in?
yes it did.
we were going to tow it in as it would not start several days, then the owner was lucky and it started. He drove all the 2 1/2 hours to our garage without ever turning the ignition off. I could start it once or twice but NEVER was able to communicate with the BECM.
The owner also tells me that he BOUGHT the EKA from the stealership two years ago for 50 dollars and it never worked.
I wrote to Land Rover UK and they confirmed it. I can also confirm that this very EKA was stored in the BECM when I connected it.
It is a 1995 BECM hence i think it is not the original one. The car left the factory in January 1997 and went to Italy. This BECM is a part number I usually see here in the petrol ones of the first series.

Further, the owner says somebody else already tried to talk to the BECM before the starting problems and could not communicate. I know the guy and he is very credible, the other garage has confirmed this since.

Another reason for not starting is a problem with the FIP. It has a stop solenoid in it.
I agree. But it is not the issue I think.
that would not stop the car accepting the EKA would it? or OBD communications?
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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OH WOW!!!
What a treasure trove of information!
I am going to grab a bunch of those files before they somehow get swallowed by a data black hole!
The Becm file is a must read for anyone with a P-38!
THANK YOU!!!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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1,426 Posts
Wow!!! from me as well.

Lots of good stuff there that I need to download in case the link goes down.
 

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Premium Member
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1,340 Posts
Wow!!! from me as well.

Lots of good stuff there that I need to download in case the link goes down.
I'll pass on the praise :thumb:. We're trying our best to host all the info we find. And I know the webmaster wont take it down unless he has to.

Filip
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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4,219 Posts
Sorry, I'm away working and not had a lot of time to get on forums and catch up etc.

So,
BECM from faulty vehicle was put into working vehicle, and all OK...
Put back in the Diesel, and still no go.

Have you tried putting the BECM from the petrol into the diesel one - with the diesel settings programmed into it?

The immobilizer link fault on the engine ECU is just a case of it not having received a valid code - it's not a fault per se.

I think that the issue is definitely in the diesel vehicle. I also think it is worth checking the continuity of the wire that goes from the BECM to the engine ECU that it's used for the immobilizer link line. If there is a break in that (or again too high resistance as it's a digital signal) then this will also stop it from getting to the engine ECU.

If you drop me a PM, or an email on [email protected], then I'll be able to respond quicker than on forums as I'm not always on the laptop onsite, but generally have my phone on me with email etc and I can try to help out more!

As it's a really early P38, then there might be one other thing that I've seen only ONCE before which caused a non-starting issue - but it was on a pre-production P38 (also diesel/manual)

Is the BECM set to 'Early EDC' or 'Late EDC?'

Also, what is the part number of the engine ECU?



I would also do as Bolt mentions and check the wiring loom in the sill to the BECM, as I've also seen a couple of P38's with broken wire(s) in the harness in there which have caused random problems.

Marty
 

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Premium Member
1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
My virtual beer goes to 95classiclwb
Carlos was very kind and sent me 52 pages of BECM input/output pages.

Let me just say it is fascinating literature. A must read for all battery drains

Marty and Bolt thanks a lot for taking your time.
Marty I am sure it is not the BECM, I had 4 different ones in there. I tried only 2 in the other p38.
The Diesel ECU setting is late and that is correct, I only ever had 94/early 95 ones needing early and I can tell them apart from far (remember I'm from France where most p38s are diesel)



Here comes the bombshell ( for me at least)

it says for C362 1, 8,9 and 10 Serial Link 8-0=. that is the left door with the key barrel.
No such thing as gnd or 12V when door ajar etc
same goes for C326 9,10,12 and 19 between BECM and right outstation
they are all outputs, but where are the inputs?


So /:( if I got that right these messages pass in some secret morse code or P38 Beer Can signals.

So I am still lost, where is the feedback to the BECM about the door lock status?

I am starting to think something in all these cables sends the 'alarmed' message from outside. But who does it?
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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4,219 Posts
The actual door latch microswitch signals go to the door outstation, which then are send to the BECM over the serial link which is mentioned in the SID.

Those serial link wires aren't actually just outputs, but bi-directional communication between the BECM and the outstation. eg the BECM gets the door latch info sent to it, and then it will communicate to the outstation to drive the relays for the window/mirrors/locking etc.

On diagnostics, on the 'inputs' -> 'doors/locking' (from memory) section in the BECM you will then see what it thinks is happening with things like microswitches when they are toggled - they will show a change between 12V ad GND well, that's how they are displayed on my Nanocom)

If the vehicle isn't showing signs of being locked/alarmed, then I would look closely at the link wire from BECM to the engine ECU. Generally if the issue is at the BECM with immobiliser/alarm then you get ENGINE DISABLED on the dash - unless it's in alarm lockout - which if you have had the BECM on the faultmate, then this is easily resettable to 'normal' if required.

will the key sync to the vehicle?
 

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2,227 Posts
Just a random thought which probably isn't relevant but just might be. I almost always turn off passive immobilisation in the BeCM settings but did it on an early diesel and then found it refused to start, it would crank but not fire. Turned it back on (as it was the only thing I had changed) and it fired right up.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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That's one part of my thought process. I've seen a few P38's where when passive immobilisation is turned off, the key won't resync - but turn it back on and it syncs fine... then if it's disabled again whilst the key is synced, then it behaves normally. I'm wondering if there's something a bit crazy going on with that where it doesn't think it's immobilised, but almost in 'limbo' and not sending the code when it should (assuming the wire from BECM to engine ECU for that is all ok!)
 
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