RangeRovers.net Forum banner

21 - 38 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
143 Posts
Did you try swapping all plugs and coils from one bank to the other? It looks like one full bank is misfiring...which to me means that it is unlikely that all 4 plugs and coils failed. But, without replacing the components...switching banks and seeing the issue also move will prove its not plugs/coils.

I know you said your injectors are flowing, but are the pressures OK. In a recent video posted here about the rover/jaguar 5.0 engine there are two fuel pressure sensors, two high-pressure pumps and the main in-tank pump that could be causing issues.
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover Sport
Joined
·
10 Posts
I had a couple that had timing chain done at the dealer showed up at my shop , this is what we found.
1.Engine running rough when cold , the intake valve was sticking on the guides and when it warm up it will run fine.
2. Found piston rings stuck to piston causing misfire compression was only 12% off from other cylinder, both vehicles had over 100,000 miles on them
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
283 Posts
As it appears that one bank is underperforming I recommend re-checking every single electrical connector plug both on the front cover(s) as well as the rear of the inlet manifold. It's easier to check the rear electrical connections with the HVAC plenum removed, of course.

You also need to double-check that the small harness ground (under an 8mm bolt) in the front cam cover is fully tightened on both front cam covers.

If your O2 sensors are the originals as installed when new, I'd replace all four to ensure that they are performing correctly (they are heated sensors and so it's important that they respond correctly).

On the mechanical side, are you certain that every inlet cam bucket went back in to their original position/sequence if they were removed?

Ideally, same for the exhaust buckets, too.

Rob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
FIXED - For now.

I swapped the o2 sensors and it made no change in the misfire or the readings I was pulling from the Gap-Tool.

I did however swap the MAF sensors bank to bank and the reading from the o2 sensors swapped as well. I cleaned both with CRC MAF cleaner and also filled the tank with more 91 octane. The misfire eventually disappeared.

Huge thanks to everyone who gave their input (especially mylife1903). I'll be sure to update if anything changes, but all seems well so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
As it appears that one bank is underperforming I recommend re-checking every single electrical connector plug both on the front cover(s) as well as the rear of the inlet manifold. It's easier to check the rear electrical connections with the HVAC plenum removed, of course.

You also need to double-check that the small harness ground (under an 8mm bolt) in the front cam cover is fully tightened on both front cam covers.

If your O2 sensors are the originals as installed when new, I'd replace all four to ensure that they are performing correctly (they are heated sensors and so it's important that they respond correctly).

On the mechanical side, are you certain that every inlet cam bucket went back in to their original position/sequence if they were removed?

Ideally, same for the exhaust buckets, too.

Rob
I had a massive amount of trouble reconnecting everything on the back of the supercharger. Hopefully nothing is out of place back there, but I was very thorough to make sure I didn't miss anything before torquing it down.

I will definitely recheck the ground. I did not think of that and is a good possibility that it could still be slightly loose.

All o2 sensors are original as far as I know. If the misfire pops back up, I will likely just replace them all.

As for the cam buckets (I'm assuming you're referring to the VVTs?) - I replaced all 4 with new ones from Land Rover and timed them up according to the workshop manual and the Atlantic British tutorial. And as long as I was reading the values correctly, they still show to be timed correctly.

Thanks for the help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Can you guys take a look at these screenshots and let me know if anything seems off? These were all taken after a 15 minute drive and at idle. Last night as I was sitting at a light, it stumbled a little bit. Which has me thinking it's not fully sorted out. Thanks in advance.
IMG_0401.png IMG_0402.png IMG_0403.png IMG_0404.png
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
283 Posts
Your valve timing is fine, based on those readings.

You might want to consider pulling the injectors and sending them off to be tested and cleaned.

You'll be surprised how well the motor runs with a balanced set of injectors once they're all flowing within 1% of each other.

I've had good luck with these folks in the link below (your motor has direct injection and not every injector shop is able to service such high pressure injectors, fwiw). They usually offer a very rapid turn time and will supply before and after flow charts.

Be sure and have them install new teflon seals while they're at it and order a re-install kit for fresh o-rings too.

You'll need a puller to remove the injectors.


Rob
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
532 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
Your valve timing is fine, based on those readings.

You might want to consider pulling the injectors and sending them off to be tested and cleaned.

You'll be surprised how well the motor runs with a balanced set of injectors once they're all flowing within 1% of each other.

I've had good luck with these folks in the link below (your motor has direct injection and not every injector shop is able to service such high pressure injectors, fwiw). They usually offer a very rapid turn time and will supply before and after flow charts.

Be sure and have them install new teflon seals while they're at it and order a re-install kit for fresh o-rings too.

You'll need a puller to remove the injectors.


Rob
My injectors were incredibly hard to remove - I do have the LR tool and had difficulty getting them out. I wouldn't be surprised if I had damaged one or multiple. Would it be worth sending them in and if they found a few damaged to replace just those? Or would I be better off just getting all new ones and skipping the cleaning?

Do you have leancodes?
I did have a lean code on bank 1 after I swapped the MAF sensors. But I believe that would be the bank that was not throwing the misfire codes earlier (cyl 1, 3, 5, 7)...?
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
532 Posts
My injectors were incredibly hard to remove - I do have the LR tool and had difficulty getting them out. I wouldn't be surprised if I had damaged one or multiple. Would it be worth sending them in and if they found a few damaged to replace just those? Or would I be better off just getting all new ones and skipping the cleaning?



I did have a lean code on bank 1 after I swapped the MAF sensors. But I believe that would be the bank that was not throwing the misfire codes earlier (cyl 1, 3, 5, 7)...?
Cylinder 1 means bank1
I believe Bad injectors can cause lean situation.
You are lean on both banks, correct?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Cylinder 1 means bank1
I believe Bad injectors can cause lean situation.
You are lean on both banks, correct?
Thanks - I thought bank 1 was opposite of cylinder 1, but couldn't find a definite answer.

I only had the light come on once after I swapped the MAF sensors and it showed only bank 1. I then cleaned the sensors and cleared the code and haven't seen it come back, yet.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
532 Posts
Thanks - I thought bank 1 was opposite of cylinder 1, but couldn't find a definite answer.

I only had the light come on once after I swapped the MAF sensors and it showed only bank 1. I then cleaned the sensors and cleared the code and haven't seen it come back, yet.
If the trims are still like 15-16
You will see “chekie chan” soon
Limits are %10
One bank codes are really annoying mostly a hard to find airleak
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
283 Posts
Congrats on the work you’ve done so far. I don’t think you’re too far [from almost good as new] with what you have to work with.

The injectors can be a pain to pull (even more challenging on some cylinders on LR Sports) but maintaining as “straight a pull in line with the injectors especially on cylinders 5 and 7, and 6 and 8” can indeed be tough - the proximity of the strut mounts and trim panels notwithstanding.

I’d remove the injectors and have them tested. The shop will let you know if any of the eight are unserviceable and need replacing. Individual Bosch injectors range between $100-300 depending on the vendor.
Replacing all eight will run close to $1000 even from a value vendor or closer to $3000 from LR versus around $400 for a tested and cleaned set of eight :(

As you already pulled them recently they should come out pretty easily this time.

While adding a little extra time, once you’ve removed the HVAC plenum consider also removing the “corners” which the two HVAC plenum attachments mount to. These would be the plastic 90 degree shaped panels behind the strut mounts surrounding the brake booster on the driver side and the battery on the passenger side.

Once you’ve pulled the injectors, check for any blow by on the tips (black deposit). If you observe blow by either the Teflon seal failed or the injector wasn’t quite fully seated (more likely).

When you reinstall your known good eight injectors make sure you “tamp down” the final seating of each injector, using the install tool in reverse, until you hear a solid metallic noise vs a hollow noise - but don’t go all Thor on it;)

Rob


My injectors were incredibly hard to remove - I do have the LR tool and had difficulty getting them out. I wouldn't be surprised if I had damaged one or multiple. Would it be worth sending them in and if they found a few damaged to replace just those? Or would I be better off just getting all new ones and skipping the cleaning?
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
143 Posts
given how many times (potentially) the injectors need to be removed, for us 5.0L guys it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a spare set of working injectors at all times. Think about it...unless you do all the jobs at once...the injectors may need to come out if you're doing: VVC work, timing chain tensioner work, supercharger work (i think), hesitation/rough idle diagnosis, or fuel work if one goes bad, etc.

If it were me...if possible, I'd get a new set from Atlantic British. Otherwise, get them serviced as it was suggested. Best of luck and keep us posted!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
I have 8 new injectors on the way. By the time I send the old ones down, maybe replace a few, and get new seal kits; I'm not far off from a new set. I will update as soon as I get them swapped in. Thanks Rob for the tip on reinstallation. I didn't tap them back in. Just pushed in until they stopped and used the fuel rail torque sequence to set them in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Found the culprit - Injector seal failure causing a lot of blow-by on cylinder 7. Had slight blow-by on all the others. Is it worth sending the old ones in to test/clean and would anyone pay for used injectors after having them done? I just put them in the boxes the new ones came in for now. Thanks again for everyone's help.
IMG_0460.jpeg IMG_0462.jpeg
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
532 Posts
Found the culprit - Injector seal failure causing a lot of blow-by on cylinder 7. Had slight blow-by on all the others. Is it worth sending the old ones in to test/clean and would anyone pay for used injectors after having them done? I just put them in the boxes the new ones came in for now. Thanks again for everyone's help.
View attachment 283552 View attachment 283553
Respect for a good challenger
Happy for you
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
283 Posts
Much respect for your dogged pursuit discovering your motor’s problem.

Especially given that 99% of the folks who come to this forum and ask for help rarely return to close out their problem with an updated post-issue post (success or failure).

Your completed thread will undoubtedly help others in the future.

FWIW, I’d have the “old” injectors tested and cleaned and sell them to recover the expense of the new replacements (LOTS of folks will be seeking a bargain for these good as new direct injection injectors - remember they fit Jags too, among other types).

Cheers, Rob
 
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
Top