[Goswin]

I am using such a device for quite a while now and I must admit, it works great. Are there any other users who are using such a LR-clone?

I must admit that I have 'fired-up' one, but I am not sure if that cheap chinese copy was the cause or the power-supply I connected during the read-out.

As a matter a fact: is there anyone who can repair such units? I opened up my VCM and yes, there it is. One of the resistors has been blown up (I actually think it is a Capacitor).

See the Capacitor (?) in the left top of this picture:

Who know which exact numbers are on this specific electronic part? I can't read them anymore since the part really blew up.

Hopefully with the replacement of this item I can fix this VCM again...

Who can help?


Thanks and regards,
Goswin de Rouw


PS: The VCM is from Rotunda

 

[Rich998a]

Yes, they are cheap(er), but TBH, the genuine IDS is pretty reasonable anyway. I think software updates is going to be the biggest issue with the China version.

 

[Goswin]

You can buy them for around $600 / $699 and software updates are available automatically thru internet (as long as it is patch-work from 1.16.1 - 1.16.2 - 1.16.xx ....etc.etc. major updates are only available on DVD obviously).

I do not know if the latest version (version 1.19 / 1.20?) can be used with these clone-VCM systems. I haven't tested this yet, but I have noticed that FORD update 62 does not work with these clones anymore (and version 59 still did).

Bye,
G.

 

[Rick-the-Pick]

I've not seen an IDS VCM clone that works properly yet.

All the clones i've come across stopped powering up after a short time so the quality isn't there.

I use the VCM, it's genuine, it's works, it doesn't give you the detail or choices like a faultmate, & the reason i have it is because the faultmate doesn't cover jaguar.

The latest software of the IDS requires you to register online & you have to pay for the updates & patches. If you use this disk on a cloned VCM i've heard it locks the VCM up & you have to use a password to deactivate, so in theory, rendering the VCM useless like your's is now.

Mine was updated by a dealership before i aquired it so it's updated to 2009 so i haven't got the chance to try the updates.

 

[Rick-the-Pick]

Just an update.

I took the IDS online to get the latest patches & to make sure it was fully updated. It wants the purchaser's details or dealership, garage, & then it checks that the VCM serial code matches. Once all these are checked the downloads take place.

I can't see how the chinese clones can achieve this so if they do work, they must work in a somewhat retarded manner with many of the features completely missing.

 

[Goswin]

Rick,

An update for you: the chinese clones work exactly the same. You have to insert / select a dealer address and than the updating goes automatically thru the internet. Only the latest FORD version, version 62 is too new for these clones and cannot be used. A downgrade fixes the problem.

Further, about the updating, when you do not have a subscription, the VCM only updates patches. So when you have Land Rover DVD 1.16, the software will update to version 1.16.1, 1.16.2, 1.16.x ... 1.16.9 nothing more. It does not get the update to version 1.17 from the internet. That is a major update where has to be paid for...

That is for your records than

The clones are really clones of the original and these work fine in my opinion. There is one big difference though: the WIRELESS card cannot be used with the clones, so you will always have to work with the ODB2/CANBUS cable.


Regards,
Goswin

 

[Rick-the-Pick]

That's good to learn.

I'm updated to the 2009.5 or the 1.18.5, on Ford, landrover & Jaguar.

The missing card slot is a surefire method for spotting the clones, but as you say, it's not needed if you stick with the cables.

All in all it's not a bad system, i find it slightly retarded compared to Faultmate diagnostics. It's the type in the vin number, select the vehicle, etc etc etc. I think i've just been use to plugging it in & going straight to the module & finding the problem in question.

 

[BBS SPY]

Hiya all

Take my opinion and input as biased if you wish,
I have now had quite a bit of experience with these Chinese clones of the VCM, sadly not all good.
I have an origional which we have always used most happily, and it provides us with some reference.

I think the IDS software sucks big style, but thats only a personal opinion and i know that dealers who have never had anything better are quite happy to use it.
Lets face it, it is what LR dealers have been using world wide to maintain and repair all LR vehicles, so despite my opinion as to its software usability aspect, it obvious can do what is needed and it is likely you can get quite used to it.
For a business user, its a real contender to fully consider.

Anyway moving on to the hardware. The origional LR Red Brick VCM is connected to the PC with a cable that connects to the ethernet port. If you are lucky enough to own a Cisco Aironet PC4500 wireless card you can whip of the clear cover slap it in and get wireless comms. Anyone who has one please let me know

The Ford equivilent was provided under the Rotunda equipment suppliers name, (really Snap on, hence the red) was provided with a USB cable that has a bubble in the cable housing a realtek USB to ethernet chip along with associated components was more common and was also adopted by LR to go along with its re IDS badged panasonic CF18/19 tough book. The other side is just an OBDII cable.

Anyway, a year or so ago when the Chinese clones first appeared we purchased one and put it throught its paces. We were well impressed that it updated as per OEM to the latest firmware / software which we always use, now 118.5 patched to P11 ish. A few months ago we ordered 2 more, we supplied 1 to a freind who had already had one he got elsewhere that had blown up big style and we supplied another elsewhere. We also sold our origional test unit. Before the week was out we encded up sending 2 back to our supplier who eventually exchanged them both, we also ordered 4 more spurred on by their willingness to deal with our previous problems. However when they turned up 2 were faulty on arrival, smelling and smoking etc. one of the exchange units did not work right and we had another come back with a blown up problem, hence now 4 are returned for repair / replacement.

Even today i am writing argumentative mails to state that we really do know how to connect and test these to our supplier, i hope all will go well and we get working exchange units that will be ok, however i just know that for some reason these units are not as robust as they should be that i can't quite put my finger on the whys and where fors. i have the one my freind bought elsewhere and one our Ford dealer fried and i have OEM ones i can take to bits to compare against, i can see which chips go big style, i can post pictures of them, and i can obviously see the build quality difference.

For anyone that has a good one, fair play and well done, its a bargain, try to keep it that way, I however will certainly not be buying any more until i am sure that the quality and reliability matches that of the OEM one.

just my 2c's worth

regards software version, we find that after V118 the IDS software / system does want periodic on line updates which we are fortunatley able to provide.

 

[Rick-the-Pick]

& i thought it was me.

The IDS does the job, it's a complete pain in the arse, it took forty mins to read & clear umpteen faults on an x type.

It's similar to using a T4 in it's style, & after it's session i gingerly put them into their cases, when inreality, i want to boot them down the road.

But until such a time faultmate covers a wider spectrum of non land rover vehicles i'm falsed to use this third world ****.

 

[BBS SPY]

Nope sort of sums it all up quite well really 8)

Goswin, i have some blown up ones with that part intact, i will do you some pics and add links to them here for you.
In the meantime its the same part on the other upper board. There are 2 real close side by side between the two 1 CM square chokes.

 

[Goswin]

@Colin: Top!

'

There are 2 real close side by side between the two 1 CM square chokes.

'

Do these parts have the same numbers on it as the one that blew up?

Thanks and regards,
Goswin

 

[BBS SPY]

Yea Goswin, thats why i said :thumb:

I can't remember now if they are 106's or 107's but you cant miss them,
The number is decoded into value as shown on this site
http://www.oselectronics.com/downloads/All about Capacitors.pdf

regards

Colin

 

[Ka177ran]

Pardon my ignorance guys, but is the Chinese VCM / IDS system actually a serious competitor - quality control issues accepted - to a Faultmate or Testbook system?

Can it read live data from say the oxygen/MAF sensors and accommodate and reset adaptive values?

Is it restricted to Engine management or can it talk to the BeCM and other ECUs?

 

[Goswin]

You can do all the work / adjustments like a LR technician can. So any item / ECU / Computer in your car can be addressed / changed and programmed.

Please note: Only cars from 2005 and up.

Regards,
Goswin

 

[BBS SPY]

No apology required Ka177ran.

If i am not mistaken, thats thoe whole point of forums such as this, to ask questions, gain clarification and understanding.
I suspect you may have only asked what many others are just thinking.

The IDS (Intergrated Diagnostic System) which was derived from the Ford WDS (Worldwide Diagnostic System) was introduced to dealers as an add on to support their CAN BUS based cars which the T4 kit could not. By add on i mean that it works off the same Laptop and they added an initial choice menu between the T4 and IDS software which you would select based of vehicle type. The Discovery 3 / Lr3 and the sport always use only the IDS for diagnostics as does the later Freelander 2 and the Defender 07 on. With the L322 thats a bit different. In all 2005 models with the later touch screen display the infotainment is IDS and the rest uses T4. In 2006 the Petrol versions now fitted with Jaguar engines also use the IDS for the rest of the vehcicle but the Diesel is the same as 2005 This stayed the same until the Diesel got the infamous TDV8. Interestingly although the IDS is / was introduced to support the CAN BUS communications of the later cars, it can also communicate with the legacy BMW systems still in the L322 up to 2010 as well as the Legacy ABS and Alarm in the defender. The IDS however wont look at a P38 or any other prior model at all. And in fact i suspect that simply plugging it into earlier models or even earlier L322's is what might be the cause of some of the Chinese clones going up in smoke.

In fact there is a TSB (Technical service Bulletin) that states you need to snap off a couple of pins in the OBDII connector to stop the IDS interface (Known as the VCM ( vehicle Communication Module)) from being irreprably damaged.
Dunno if you read that one Goswin. :thumb: I personally could not bring myself to do that, however i suspect that like Goswin, i only ever plug my VCM (clone or origional) into the right cars for it.

I have been accused of being unwantonly negative and biased in my posts regarding alternate diagnostic equipment, I am therefore quite pleased to now have an opportunity to prove my accusers are not right all the time, because although the user interface and ease of usability of the IDS system really does suck like a Dyson, otherwise it does provide the most capability of any system out there. Cost wise it is undoubtedly currently the best option for any trader. We of course already offer some significant features in our software that the IDS does not, such as full vehicle configuration editing, which does give us a workable edge, especially for private users, but we do still have a long way to go in respect of adding all the bread and butter stuff beyond what i have mentioned and the fault code reading & clearing etc that the IDS does on Can Bus type vehicles, for example we dont read the Live data you mention on the later cars, or any live data at all for that matter. We are only just about to release ECU programming and the adaptive resets etc. If the Chinese could get their act together and copy the IDS properly this would indeed be good news for all businesses, until then i can only say that they should stay away from the clones but consider the genuine one, even though it costs a bit more, it's still more capable and cheaper than anything else for them at present.

Regards all earlier vehicle like the P38, sadly there is still nothing availible that can touch us for capability on those, despite any promises or appearances.

 

[Rick-the-Pick]

Ka177ran,

The geniune IDS VCM is a main dealer tool. It covers Fords & Jaguar's from 1996 onwards & Landrover from 2005.

It's not pleasure to use at the best of times & can be very hit or miss on the fault clearing process.

The Chinese cloned VCM's, when they work, can be very unpredictable & seem to have a mind of there own. The first step of using a clone is that when it's plugged in, it doesn't start smoking. Second step is to make sure it's not re-configuring the vehicle under it's own accord. It's like the buttons are stuck on your keyboard & you can't stop it, so you have to yank the power, although the people that buy them wont admit this happens, but i've seen it enough times to make my own mind up.

If it had to contend against overs, i'd put it against Decscan or autodiagnose but it's certainly fields apart from faultmate.

If you're going to buy one, make sure it's a geniune VCM & don't expect any wizardry.

 

[Ka177ran]

Thank you all, for the clarifications.

Whilst I will probably not buy a chinese clone even for my brothers L322, I was tempted by the open pricing structure.

I tend to only hand over hundreds of pounds for a product where I can actively browse support pages and get access to support pages before making the choice to buy.

Colin - Whilst I agree that your product is probably the best, I am 'intimidated' by your overly complex pricing structure and hidden user support.

I am sure that it is not the first time you would have had such feedback as I remember you announcing a few months ago how you were going to address that issue when you updated your site - unfortunately for me your site is still very tricky to navigate.

I actually bought a T3 box about a year ago (without cables and requiring some TLC) and will probably need to do some research into getting that going.

Again thank you, Goswin, Rick and especially Colin for your time and honest feedback. :thumb:

 

[p38arover]

Colin - Whilst I agree that your product is probably the best, I am 'intimidated' by your overly complex pricing structure and hidden user support.

I am sure that it is not the first time you would have had such feedback as I remember you announcing a few months ago how you were going to address that issue when you updated your site - unfortunately for me your site is still very tricky to navigate..

I agree about the hidden support and site navigation. I would have loved to be able to read the forum (even if I couldn't participate) before I got my MSV.

I actually bought a T3 box about a year ago (without cables and requiring some TLC) and will probably need to do some research into getting that going.

Kam, did I tell you we couldn't find a copy of the Testbook software at the ex-dealer. He thinks LR took it all back.

 

[Rich998a]

Kamran:

After plenty of headscratching, I decided to run with Omitec's UCM. It cost very little (in comparison to other commercial systems) but the down side of it was that Omitec haven't provided complete coverage of all the later vehicles such as the 07MY Puma Defender and Freelander 2. Omitec have promised to get the software up and running (to 'Dealer Spec') by the end of this year. AllyV8 has a beta for their next update which he uses but I've not had the opportunity to use the UCM yet as T4 has covered the BMW L322's easily and efficiently.

T4 also had extra tools which can be useful if you don't have access to a Picoscope. These extra things like clamps etc simply plug into the T4 module into the second port while the first port hosts the OBDII data link.

As an example, T4 will allow you to test the D2 Td5 fuel pump by a guided diagnostic. The software tells you what cable(s) is required and all you need to do is follow the on-screen instructions.

The UCM add-on is nice in that it is compact and much less bulky than the T4 mobile module. From reports on the shop floor, Omitec has fast and efficient software where it counts, but with the obvious issue which is that it isn't yet dealer spec.

When you look at the diagnostic options, I was quoted approx 3,500 for the IDS which was an original genuine version (from GEG - http://www.gegdiagnostics.co.uk/products/ids.php ). I managed to get T4 and the UCM for a total of 5,295 + VAT. My personal reasons for going that route were that T4 works and is not a reverse engineered system, Omitec may end up being contracted by TATA to provide the next generation of diagnostic systems (and why not having developed the efficient UCM?) and most importantly, I can call AllyV8 whenever I get a problem with anything. Provided I don't interupt his breakfast/lunch then that actually works very well... :lol: :wink:

When you see the 8,500 + VAT price tag on the autologic system, it makes you sick (I've been quoted closer to 9,500 as well). Well that's the cost of 2 new 4 post ramps or a year of rent on 1,850sqft of modern commercial premises.

If you think about it, the UCM can only be a uniquely designed system. Other systems like the China mfr'd system and Autologic must have been reverse engineered, in that the software must have been copied/cloned or at least based on the original? The UCM is a fresher approach and this may explain why it is so efficient but so slow in getting developed? :think:

Anyway, for non-commercial use, non of the above is any use to anyone. :doh:

 

[allyv8]

Rich, I trust you have made suitable arrangements for lunch on Friday ? :dance: