[miggit]

As part of my upgrades I'm fitting an aftermarket central locking remote with flipkeys, as I don't trust the alarm!! I've just been looking at the wiring diagram for the 89 RRC and it's not very helpful And the Chinese instructions aren't much better!!

From what I can make out, the controller has 2, 2 way relays in it that can be used to switch either + or - pulses to the central locking system, and the RRC has 2 wires going to each motor Orange and Pink, so they must flip flop between + and - depending on which operation is going on. And now the $64000000 Question, what do I pluse to which wire? ie. is it permanently live and I pulse the earth, or is it permanently low and I pulse the live?, or are they both dead and I have to send + and - at the same time to opposite leads?

If only they had included a diagram of what was going on inside the master switch, it would have made life alot easier!

 

[miggit]

That, unfortunately, isn't the system that I've got. Mine is the early 4 wire master and 3 x 2 wire slaves, no tailgate.... My system doesn't have a controller, it is all handled by the master actuator in the drivers door, which has the 4 wires, a +12v and ground, and 2 wires that link to the rest of the motors. I'm assuming that the 2 wires are totally isolated from the rest of the car and are only linked in the master actuator.

I can work out how to get them working with the central locking remote, that bit is easy.. the problem that arises is what happens when I use the key....

The remote has 2 relays, lock and unlock, by changing the feed to the actuators to the common on each relay,I can feed 0v to both wires and when a loc or unlock signal is sent from the remote the corresponding actuator feed is switched to +12v for .5 of a second. However if the key is turned in the lock, and there is power in the cars' battery (highly likely as mine has 2 batteries), there will be a direct short to earth on one of the lines. And there lies the problem... Yes I can wire it up to make the controller work, but it will cause no end of problems if the the key is used instead of the remote.

 

[miggit]

Been doing some more thinking, OUCH!, and I'm beginning to think that I'll have to add some additional double pole double throw relays into the system to isolate the normal key operated system....Something like this..

But I'm now wondering if having a second relay operated by a 0.5 second pulse will be slowing things down a bit and there might not be enough time to trigger the locks..

 

[miggit]

Well I wouldn't disagree with that statement...

However the master on my early car only has 4 wires, not the 5 of later ones, and the slaves have only 2... as all the motors are in plastic cases I can only assume that the 2 wire ones are + and - which is reversible depending on what operation it's trying to do. As the master is only linked to the fusebox, earth and the other motors, it must contain something like a power window switch to send the correct polarity pulse up the save wires.

The later system with the 5 wire masters has a controller unit under the steering column, this does the +/- to the correct slave wires and the 3 extra wires are the common and earth switching from the master solenoides ie. lock signal, unlock signal and trigger (normally earth)

As I can't get into the master switch I can't access the trigger circuit to apply the earth pulse to the correct line, so I'll have to built a controller of my own and integrate it in to the system... So I'll be making up something like the second diagram I posted, which should allow me to pulse the link wires, but stay isolated so that it doesn't interfere with the normal key operation.

 

[miggit]

A 5 wire slave actuator is definitely an option, have seen it done before on a Y60 Patrol, but I was trying not to add any extra wires into the door loom as it's all a bit tight to start with... I'll build up the the relay switch and give it a go and report back.

 

[miggit]

Well after a bit of fiddly soldering and a lot of head scratching I can confirm that the only way to remote operate the system is with a slave actuator... D'OH!

So I've been on the bay of fleas and I'm now playing the waiting game for a new slave actuator to arrive... And while I do have a Ping Pong special to hand, I decided to go with a heavy duty actuator as they produce over 3 times the power of a standard unit, and therefore is less likely to be affected by old / stiff locks etc.

 

[miggit]

So what exactly is your system not doing?

Is it still operating on the key OK or is that fubar'd too?

 

[miggit]

That's a tricky one.. do you restore the LR controler under the steering wheel, or start again with a complete aftermarket unit with new actuators?.... in reality they probably cost the same as you can get Ping Pong 4 door kits for under £30 over here, and I imagine that it's the same your side of the ball!

Think I'd be tempted to go factory if the loom connectors are still there, but if they are missing I'd go for a fresh install, new everything including wires...

 

[miggit]

There are 2 types of actuator available on the aftermarket, the common type like this

These are the only rated at 1.5KG pull and are ok if everything is in prefect working order.... but we are talking 30 year old Range Rovers here... prefect working order might be rather expensive to achieve, if at all possible.
But they also make a heavy duty version, that looks like this

These are rated at 5KG pull, so they are over 3 times the grunt of the standard item. This is the type that I've gone for, and hopefully weather permitting, will be fitting today!

If your car is missing the controller, I very much doubt that it will operate full stop, the central locking controller on the 5 wire system is the unit that sends the pulse to the actuators, the 5 wire actuator is a 2 wire with a switch that is only mechanically linked to the motor, not electrically... that is done by the controller... so if it's missing you've got 2 hopes... Bob Hope and no hope! Hence the question are the wiring loom plugs still there for the LR controller?

I would suggest that you look on ebay, but not in Australia, try the US site, most of the central locking kits are from China which should be cheaper carriage for you, but you've got to find they first!! Remember that the flat motors have more umph, and hopefully you can get a good deal!!

 

[miggit]

Well I can report back that those actuators have got massive grunt behind them... I installed mine yesterday, and while I did have a few issues at first, I got there in the end..

This was the only place that I could mount the actuator, which meant that I had to extend the push / pull rod by 3", luckily I had a spare clamp block and some rod.. I connected it to the inside lock button rod, just below the door frame. I managed this by bending the rod down a bit so that I could attach the clamp and then bent it back as best I could. the second clamp block just happened to fall in to a place that is accessible, so that was easy... The button inside is noticeably stiffer, but I thought I'd try it with an independent battery before it all went back together.... WOW!! talk about positive action.. these actuators really have got some power.

It would be easy to replace an original actuator / motor with one of these... but some crafty rewiring would be needed, not impossible, and I reckon that you could use 99% of the Range Rover wiring as well.

 

[miggit]

Right the plot thickens... I have been bugged by your central locking dilemma and been doing a bit of digging and have discovered that there are 2 types of central locking aftermarket kits... the common one is the remote add on, which is for use with an existing system... I suspect that this is what you have, it relies on the system working and adds the lock / unlock signal to the original controller. The second type is usually found with a kit and it uses a 5 wire actuator to power the other locks... And this is the type of thing you need, unfortunately I haven't found one that isn't part of a kit...But I have found a kit that's silly money cheap!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252688531620?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

You can use just the controller to get your system working and sell the actuators at $5 a pop and get most if not all your dosh back!

I'm not 100% certain that your controller is wrong as you haven't posted any pictures, HINT!!, But I'm 99% sure that the previous owner / muppet has tried to fit the common remote add on in place of the LR controler, which has left the system unpowered... there is also a way to overcome the problem with a series of relays, but that rather depends on your wiring skills!

 

[miggit]

That's virtually what I have done, I assume that your RRC is an older one with the 4 wire system.. because the extra actuator isn't required for a 5 wire system..

Anyhow I was referring to aussiebushman's problems where a previous owner has replaced the LR controller, under steering wheel, with an aftermarket unit and fubar'd the entire system.. Why is anyone's guess, but as he has a lack of LR controller I think it could get expensive, very quickly if it were given to a garage / auto shop to repair... I've got a fairly good grasp on how the systems operate and reckon that a cheap solution is possible... Just need to see what we're up against!!

 

[miggit]

Right if the controller isn't LR, then that kit has the right controller... assuming that your after straight lock / unlock, not locking on the move, it can be easily adapted to fit the Range Rover system.... I have also discovered that you can get heavy duty 2 and 5 wire actuators... they are silly money expensive in Aus... but if you go direct to China then they are stupidly cheap!! Over the last few years I have brought a lot of stuff direct from China using Aliexpress and paying with a card... it's like ebay but a lot cheaper, about 50% of it is free postage, but it does take a few weeks as it comes by sea.

H/D 5 Wire.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car...lgo_pvid=19eebeca-b92d-488e-9f14-5eb5e9d546d9
H/D 2 wire.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car-Auto-Universal-Heavy-Duty-Power-Slave-Door-Lock-Actuator-for-Motor-Central-Locking-System-2/32601414903.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.90.z2YWaB&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10157_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10181_10182_10078_10079_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_16,ppcSwitch_7_ppcChannel&btsid=55da1393-efae-4ffb-9f11-971e369f5575&algo_expid=19eebeca-b92d-488e-9f14-5eb5e9d546d9-12&algo_pvid=19eebeca-b92d-488e-9f14-5eb5e9d546d9

As you can see they are silly money cheap compared with the prices I have seen on fleabay Aus, I dare say a C/L system might be cheaper from there too... but I'm not going to wade through thousands of pages looking, and it'll only be a few cents..

 

[miggit]

Here is the wiring diagram for a 1990 Range Rover

I have coloured the wires in, BUT, the green is actually black / earth / negative..and the solid red is actually brown / +12v / positive.

Here is a typical diagram for the aftermarket system, which I have applied the same colours to..

With 6 connections the aftermarket controller can be substituted for the missing factory controller, also your remote locking controller can be added to the system so you have keyless entry too!

The only difference between the 2 setups is the aftermarket diagram is only showing 1 5 wire master actuator, where as the factory system has 2, but due to the way that they work you can double up on the Red/Pink and Yellow/Orange wires to add another master to the after market system!!