[miggit]

As part of my upgrades I'm fitting an aftermarket central locking remote with flipkeys, as I don't trust the alarm!! I've just been looking at the wiring diagram for the 89 RRC and it's not very helpful And the Chinese instructions aren't much better!!

From what I can make out, the controller has 2, 2 way relays in it that can be used to switch either + or - pulses to the central locking system, and the RRC has 2 wires going to each motor Orange and Pink, so they must flip flop between + and - depending on which operation is going on. And now the $64000000 Question, what do I pluse to which wire? ie. is it permanently live and I pulse the earth, or is it permanently low and I pulse the live?, or are they both dead and I have to send + and - at the same time to opposite leads?

If only they had included a diagram of what was going on inside the master switch, it would have made life alot easier!

 

[aussiebushman]

I'm struggling with exactly the same problem after the PO ripped out the original control unit and alarm system, replaced it with a Chinese aftermarket unit but did not hook it up. For what it is worth, I found the following in another thread dealing with replacement of the actuators (can't remember the source) but it might help simplify the identification of the wiring.

Maybe we can both work on it and share the results. Article in part, with edits and additions of my own reads:

The first challenge is to ensure power is getting to the controller. Then with a meter or circuit tester, check the wiring FROM the controller, meaning what goes live when the remote buttons are depressed. Two of these will be the "lock/unlock" and one will probably be ground

The rear door actuators are “slaves” to the front doors and only require 2-wire connections. The driver door is a master (as it controls all doors) and requires a 5-wire hook-up. The passenger side can be either a slave or a master.

When the 2/3- wire connections that lock/unlock the rear doors have been identified, that combination will remain the same on all doors.

When you know which is the ground, there are only 2 more to test and connect to the front door actuators​

 

[miggit]

That, unfortunately, isn't the system that I've got. Mine is the early 4 wire master and 3 x 2 wire slaves, no tailgate.... My system doesn't have a controller, it is all handled by the master actuator in the drivers door, which has the 4 wires, a +12v and ground, and 2 wires that link to the rest of the motors. I'm assuming that the 2 wires are totally isolated from the rest of the car and are only linked in the master actuator.

I can work out how to get them working with the central locking remote, that bit is easy.. the problem that arises is what happens when I use the key....

The remote has 2 relays, lock and unlock, by changing the feed to the actuators to the common on each relay,I can feed 0v to both wires and when a loc or unlock signal is sent from the remote the corresponding actuator feed is switched to +12v for .5 of a second. However if the key is turned in the lock, and there is power in the cars' battery (highly likely as mine has 2 batteries), there will be a direct short to earth on one of the lines. And there lies the problem... Yes I can wire it up to make the controller work, but it will cause no end of problems if the the key is used instead of the remote.

 

[miggit]

Been doing some more thinking, OUCH!, and I'm beginning to think that I'll have to add some additional double pole double throw relays into the system to isolate the normal key operated system....Something like this..

But I'm now wondering if having a second relay operated by a 0.5 second pulse will be slowing things down a bit and there might not be enough time to trigger the locks..

 

[PLR]

G`day ,

i don`t have any answers for you .

Just a comment that alot of switching on these is done with earth and not power like most things .

 

[miggit]

Well I wouldn't disagree with that statement...

However the master on my early car only has 4 wires, not the 5 of later ones, and the slaves have only 2... as all the motors are in plastic cases I can only assume that the 2 wire ones are + and - which is reversible depending on what operation it's trying to do. As the master is only linked to the fusebox, earth and the other motors, it must contain something like a power window switch to send the correct polarity pulse up the save wires.

The later system with the 5 wire masters has a controller unit under the steering column, this does the +/- to the correct slave wires and the 3 extra wires are the common and earth switching from the master solenoides ie. lock signal, unlock signal and trigger (normally earth)

As I can't get into the master switch I can't access the trigger circuit to apply the earth pulse to the correct line, so I'll have to built a controller of my own and integrate it in to the system... So I'll be making up something like the second diagram I posted, which should allow me to pulse the link wires, but stay isolated so that it doesn't interfere with the normal key operation.

 

[PLR]

G`day ,

you may have this .

NK brown/pink , positive

B black , Negative

K Pink , one side of motor

O Orange , other side of motor .

clinches are

O , K , O

K , O , K

B , B , B

K , K , k

O, O , O

All the motors are K , O

I have a 4 wire in the shed if i can find it .

The motor ate the plastic gear if i remember but it was a while ago .

Our 85 has no alarm but is a 4 wire system

 

[95classiclwb]

Miggit, on my old 87 classic I installed keyless entry and remote start. I understand the concern and difficulty with the power lock system, in the end I used a slave actuator and attached it to the existing lock mechanism then wired the slave into the lock unlock wires of the aftermarket brain.
in this manner it emulated a hand moving the actual lock and all other locks worked. this with out damaging the existing wiring or the possibility of a short.

 

[PLR]

Miggit, on my old 87 classic I installed keyless entry and remote start. I understand the concern and difficulty with the power lock system, in the end I used a slave actuator and attached it to the existing lock mechanism then wired the slave into the lock unlock wires of the aftermarket brain.
in this manner it emulated a hand moving the actual lock and all other locks worked. this with out damaging the existing wiring or the possibility of a short.

G`day ,

that makes sense and the best way of doing it .

After looking at the switch unit , i had seperated the 2 halves at some time i see that even though the circuit diagram shows it as having a motor it does not and relies on the key movement .

We`ve had our 85 over 25 years and it was a while ago i looked at remote lock but it didn`t occur to do as stated .

 

[miggit]

A 5 wire slave actuator is definitely an option, have seen it done before on a Y60 Patrol, but I was trying not to add any extra wires into the door loom as it's all a bit tight to start with... I'll build up the the relay switch and give it a go and report back.

 

[miggit]

Well after a bit of fiddly soldering and a lot of head scratching I can confirm that the only way to remote operate the system is with a slave actuator... D'OH!

So I've been on the bay of fleas and I'm now playing the waiting game for a new slave actuator to arrive... And while I do have a Ping Pong special to hand, I decided to go with a heavy duty actuator as they produce over 3 times the power of a standard unit, and therefore is less likely to be affected by old / stiff locks etc.

 

[aussiebushman]

Wise choice Miggit. Was asking Ward at Graeme Cooper Automotive about using aftermarket actuators, especially the "pistol" type - he claims they just do not have the required power and even if they work initially are very prone to early failure - false economy.

I still have not sorted mine out but it definitely IS a 5 wire system

 

[miggit]

So what exactly is your system not doing?

Is it still operating on the key OK or is that fubar'd too?

 

[aussiebushman]

Miggit - I presume your last question was to me.

The PO had ripped out the entire controller and alarm circuit and replace the former with an after-market unit but had not connected it up. None of the doors now lock with the key - only lock by pushing down the top lever. The key DOES unlock the driver's door mechanically, but not electrically so there seems to be no power getting to the actuators.

I have yet to pull off the door trim and check for power to the actuator because there have been too many other minor irritating jobs to do first (like the electric seat wiring, the air con resistors and several other things). I'll get the trim off today to see what is going on - or not, as the case may be.

 

[miggit]

That's a tricky one.. do you restore the LR controler under the steering wheel, or start again with a complete aftermarket unit with new actuators?.... in reality they probably cost the same as you can get Ping Pong 4 door kits for under £30 over here, and I imagine that it's the same your side of the ball!

Think I'd be tempted to go factory if the loom connectors are still there, but if they are missing I'd go for a fresh install, new everything including wires...

 

[aussiebushman]

The PO did not replace the actuators - only the controller. I have now pulled off the door trim and found that the multi-plug to the actuator had become disconnected. I have yet to check the power at the plug, but with the plug reconnected, the new controller now clicks when the new remote fob is depressed but there is no sound or movement of the actuator.

Adjusting the actuator mounting plate makes no difference - the key still only unlocks the door, but will NOT lock it so the problem may (I hope) only be mechanical - perhaps a broken over-spring so I'll have to remove the unit for inspection and bench testing. However, I expect to find the actuator is stuffed. My gurus say the aftermarket types do not have enough torque and are a waste of money and a new one is approaching $300 here.

How are you getting on with yours?

 

[PLR]

G`day ,

if a wrecker nearby have a look at VR VS commodore some RR use the same actuators .

If yours are the type that loom plugs into actuator body some are the same thing .

 

[miggit]

There are 2 types of actuator available on the aftermarket, the common type like this

These are the only rated at 1.5KG pull and are ok if everything is in prefect working order.... but we are talking 30 year old Range Rovers here... prefect working order might be rather expensive to achieve, if at all possible.
But they also make a heavy duty version, that looks like this

These are rated at 5KG pull, so they are over 3 times the grunt of the standard item. This is the type that I've gone for, and hopefully weather permitting, will be fitting today!

If your car is missing the controller, I very much doubt that it will operate full stop, the central locking controller on the 5 wire system is the unit that sends the pulse to the actuators, the 5 wire actuator is a 2 wire with a switch that is only mechanically linked to the motor, not electrically... that is done by the controller... so if it's missing you've got 2 hopes... Bob Hope and no hope! Hence the question are the wiring loom plugs still there for the LR controller?

I would suggest that you look on ebay, but not in Australia, try the US site, most of the central locking kits are from China which should be cheaper carriage for you, but you've got to find they first!! Remember that the flat motors have more umph, and hopefully you can get a good deal!!

 

[95classiclwb]

The PO did not replace the actuators - only the controller. I have now pulled off the door trim and found that the multi-plug to the actuator had become disconnected. I have yet to check the power at the plug, but with the plug reconnected, the new controller now clicks when the new remote fob is depressed but there is no sound or movement of the actuator.

Adjusting the actuator mounting plate makes no difference - the key still only unlocks the door, but will NOT lock it so the problem may (I hope) only be mechanical - perhaps a broken over-spring so I'll have to remove the unit for inspection and bench testing. However, I expect to find the actuator is stuffed. My gurus say the aftermarket types do not have enough torque and are a waste of money and a new one is approaching $300 here.

How are you getting on with yours?

did you emulate closing the door by latching the latch in the closed position before testing lock unlock motion? front doors have a safety feature built in where they must be closed for the locking system to lock this way you don't lock your keys in the truck.
or you can roll down a front window, and then test the lock unlock function. if at this time the actuator fails to work properly you may have found your culprit.

 

[aussiebushman]

Thanks Guys - all good input. Yes, I have tried all options for locking - with the window down just in case it worked!

I'm getting power to the actuator also to the key-wiring but nothing happens. I understand the actuator needs only the pink and orange wires active to operate, but it waits for a signal from the controller to do this. If black is ground, it must be the red/pink and yellow/red doing that

The workshop manager at GCA reckons the new controller fitted by the PO may not be compatible and is not sending the signal to the actuator.

I'm getting increasingly frustrated by this and may just have to pay the money for the techos to reinstall the whole lot - not a happy prospect