[Malafax_dand]

Last night the Rover spent the evening outside. It was about -25 degrees F with wind chill last night. This morning at about 4 degrees F I started the car and let it idle for about 5 minutes. About 5 minutes of driving, I had lots of oil smoke.

Popped the hood and was watching oil dribble quickly out the back of the valve cover onto the exhaust manifold on both sides of the engine. What on earth am I dealing with here. Is this really cold enough to cause such a huge failure in the gaskets. Are we dealing with a combination of aluminum engine contraction and brittle cold gasket ? Upon inspection of the engine, it looks like I was leaking oil along both side of both valve gaskets and possibly also from the head gaskets.

I am now wondering what the health of the engine seals are. Is it just the cold that did this, or a combination of cold weather and gaskets that are in really bad shape. In that 10 minutes of driving, I lost about 1 quart of oil (serious leak).

Any thoughts?

 

[Gazellio]

Last night the Rover spent the evening outside. It was about -25 degrees F with wind chill last night. This morning at about 4 degrees F I started the car and let it idle for about 5 minutes. About 5 minutes of driving, I had lots of oil smoke.

Popped the hood and was watching oil dribble quickly out the back of the valve cover onto the exhaust manifold on both sides of the engine. What on earth am I dealing with here. Is this really cold enough to cause such a huge failure in the gaskets. Are we dealing with a combination of aluminum engine contraction and brittle cold gasket ? Upon inspection of the engine, it looks like I was leaking oil along both side of both valve gaskets and possibly also from the head gaskets.

I am now wondering what the health of the engine seals are. Is it just the cold that did this, or a combination of cold weather and gaskets that are in really bad shape. In that 10 minutes of driving, I lost about 1 quart of oil (serious leak).

Any thoughts?

With that weather you need a TDV8 with Pre-Heater so Engine 7 Cabin nice and warm before you crank :shock:

Seriously though sorry to hear about the oil leak it sounds a nightmare

 

[Malafax_dand]

I added a quart to the oil and checked the fluid level. I then started the engine and monitored it all through the warm up cycle. There is no more oil leaking out from the engine seals. This is a very strange occurance. Can anyone lend some experience to this? Can seals and or sealing surfaces fail like this only temporarly? 1 quart is a seriou leak. but now it appears to be ok.

I am going to clean all the oil off and see if I have any more leaks over the next few days. It would not be so bad if I did not live in a place that gets cold every year.

 

[gw2doc]

whoa buddy, youve got me a little worried now, when i take my kids to school tomorrow morning its going to be about that... 4 degrees F or so...

my rig sits outside everynight, think that has anything to do with, normally sitting inside? not sure how it would...

ill let you know if my kids make it to school tomorrow... ray:

 

[Malafax_dand]

If I had to do it over again. Let the car fully warm up in the drive way first. I probably would have caught the leak and or the leak would not have happened. The leak probably happened or became much worse because of the higher RPMs when I was driving around before the engine was up to full temp.

I am also going to give the valve cover bolts a little tighten.

 

[q-rover]

Letting an engine idle itself warm is never a good idea.

 

[adara]

"Letting an engine idle itself warm is never a good idea."

Why? You are saying that one should drive straight away even with high RPM with a cold engine? I am always concerned when leaving in the morning, mostly because the diesel has a very clunky noise when cold. Then again my wife’s new Volvo (diesel too) doesn’t even have an engine temp monitor anymore...

 

[q-rover]

Experiment
Idling to warm up?

Just search Google.
99% of sites/ articles/ forum posts are of the same opinion. If it's so cold you
feel the need to idle the engine before driving off, fit a preheater. :roll:
Either a Webasto/ Eberspacher or a simple block heater. I use mine all year round.

 

[Gazellio]

Experiment
Idling to warm up?

Just search Google.
99% of sites/ articles/ forum posts are of the same opinion. If it's so cold you
feel the need to idle the engine before driving off, fit a preheater. :roll:
Either a Webasto/ Eberspacher or a simple block heater. I use mine all year round.

As I said before a pre-heater is definitely the way forward.

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

Although I've not had this problem myself, I have read about it being a common occurrence on the BMW boards. It can happen if the water freezes in the PCV System, mainly in the oil separator. Because the oil emulsifies with the water it then freezes and blocks the return pipe. You then get a build up of pressure which can force oil places where it doesn't normally go.

I cant seem to find the info at the mo, maybe I need more coffee, but I think the last post I read was "dumped all oil over the floor in 30 seconds"

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

I cant seem to find the info at the mo, maybe I need more coffee, but I think the last post I read was "dumped all oil over the floor in 30 seconds"

OK, had more coffee:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14565&p=97204&hilit=oil+leak#p97204

 

[adara]

My RR is a Td6 so it comes with a preheater. So you think using the preheater when very cold is a better idea then idling to warm? How about the battery, doesn't the preheater discharge it faster?

 

[Gazellio]

Sounds like you need Thermal Blankets on you PCV hoses. Good call Dan.

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

My RR is a Td6 so it comes with a preheater. So you think using the preheater when very cold is a better idea then idling to warm? How about the battery, doesn't the preheater discharge it faster?

You may need to get the timer kit so that you can set it to come on 20 minutes before you are due to use it in the morning etc. Yes using a pre-heater is far better for the engine that letting it idle to warm. The engine takes longer to get warm when idling, even so I generally leave mine to idle for about 30 seconds whilst I dither about in the morning. The important thing is to make sure the oil has found its way around the engine, after 30 seconds everything should be fully lubed.

I've thought about getting a kenlowe pre-heater, you can get a petrol fuel burning heater but its a lot of agro to install and very expensive.

 

[Gazellio]

My 07 TDV8 has the pre-heateer and a remote control I keep hanging up in the upstairs bedroom overlooking our forecourt/drive. I click the on button about 5-10 minutes before I leave at the moment and the car is fully defrosted, very warm inside and the Engine is already warmed for cranking. As you soon as you put the key in the ignition the pre-heater automatically stops. Brilliant works every time and uses almost nil Diesel

PS: Must be the perfect bit of kit for those American winters and after all thats why its there and installed by LR after all :thumb:

 

[q-rover]

The fuelburning preheaters use about 6dl fuel/ hour and result in no
cold wear on the engine. How much fuel does the engine use idling for 15mins?
Plus (with timer) not only is the engine warm, so is the heater and interior,
which means it starts blowin hot air straight away.
As for battery, just make sure it's fully charged. I had no problems with my 110
with a normal battery.

 

[Stevemfr]

"Letting an engine idle itself warm is never a good idea."

Why? You are saying that one should drive straight away even with high RPM with a cold engine?

I assume you came to an understanding in the meantime, but this is definitely NOT what he was saying. Drive rather than idle, but easy. No high RPMs.

 

[gw2doc]

just wondering but if its because of water freezing, why was this a problem at 4 degrees and not 10 or 14 degrees????

 

[Stevemfr]

My RR is a Td6 so it comes with a preheater. So you think using the preheater when very cold is a better idea then idling to warm? How about the battery, doesn't the preheater discharge it faster?

The preheater uses next to no battery, that's why it burns fuel. The only battery is for the glow plug upon start up (moderate draw on the batt for 30 secs or so), fuel pump (dedicated heater fuel pump - next to no draw), water pump (next to no draw), and heater blower motors to warm the interior (moderate draw). Using a preheater is better for the motor (less wear), emissions (in burning, the preheater emits significantly less pollutants than a cold motor in a warm-up cycle), and much better for the driver's well being. (Sorry if I sound like a Webasto sales-guy - one of the things we did at the shop I worked at putting myself through school was installing and servicing these things)

Depending on the conditions, starting an ice-cold engine can draw significantly more from the battery than the preheater+starting a warmer motor. TD6's have the preheaters installed as a supplemental heater to the motor as the motor itself warms too slowly. As far as I've figured, cars with the Nav installed have the functionality to allow timer starting of the preheater (programming is done via the nav). RR's with the MID radio have no way of programming the preheater and can only use the preheat function with a remote (which costs nearly as much to have installed by LR as a complete, new preheater at a Webasto dealer.). Can anyone comment on this?

 

[Stevemfr]

I am now wondering what the health of the engine seals are. Is it just the cold that did this, or a combination of cold weather and gaskets that are in really bad shape. In that 10 minutes of driving, I lost about 1 quart of oil (serious leak).

Any thoughts?

Hey Storey,
Wow. This is like the third issue (?) you've had with your LM in what, 6 months? Wholly bejeez. In your shoes, I'd have to slowly start hiding these things from the missus - otherwise I'd have to start finding good reasons to keep the car.

Once you get your PCV system straightened out, if you are interested in a OEM preheater, lemme know. I may be able to work some deals.

And I hope the RR starts becoming a little more reliable for you...
Cheers
Steve