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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Recently rebuilt my 2004 Range Rove (M62 BMW engine, cracked intake cam, bent valve cylinder 8) used timing tools, refaced the heads, replaced a bunch engine components, etc... About 1 in 3 COLD start up, the engine will pull codes P0011 and P0021 no other codes. Engine idles very smooth, rev through the rpm range without displaying any faults or codes, just on start up.

Wondering what people thought the problem might be? Car is running on 5-W40 engine oil, would this be the problem? I live in Canada, car sits outside in -5 to -20 Celsius.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Just replying to my own question for those who want to know. I changed the oil to 5-W30 both error codes still pops up.

Ideas anyone? Could both cams be timed wrong or maybe something else crankshaft position sensor, or crankshaft time wheel?
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Recently rebuilt my 2004 Range Rove (M62 BMW engine, cracked intake cam, bent valve cylinder 8) used timing tools, refaced the heads, replaced a bunch engine components, etc... About 1 in 3 COLD start up, the engine will pull codes P0011 and P0021 no other codes. Engine idles very smooth, rev through the rpm range without displaying any faults or co


Wondering what people thought the problem might be? Car is running on 5-W40 engine oil, would this be the problem? I live in Canada, car sits outside in -5 to -20 Celsius.
Uhhhh, no. Not directly.


But isn't it a little cool to be using 5w40?

And no matter what others may post, remember that there is almost no such thing as a stupid question regarding the 03 - 05 RR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

5w40 was oil shop used after they rebuilt the engine, make sense for safe break in.

After switching to 5w30 I am still getting the p0011 and p0021 codes. Waited a few days then added recommended amount of Seafoam to the crank case. Been a few days now still getting the same two codes. Was hoping VVT solenoids are source of the faults and a bit of Seafoam will clean them out, it does not appear so...

Any ideas guys?

Only other thing I can think of is the shop timed it wrong BUT the engine runs and idles smooth. Probability of them timing both cams wrong when they had the timing jig seems very low.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

I would not drive it until it is fixed. Something is wrong with the vanos or timing is off. Or the chain guides are broken.
If it fails it could bend valves Ect...
Search over on the bimmer forums for a lot more info. It could be the timing is slightly off too.
 

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2016-2018 Range Rover MkIV / L405
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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Keep in mind, 5W40 and 5W30 have the same viscosity at cold start up...so switching between them will not correct the original issue...as at cold start your vehicle is seeing the same exact oil. The "W" stands for winter (not weight as some mistakenly assume). As soon as your vehicle reaches normal operating temperature, the 5W is gone and the other part of your multi-grade is valid. To get thinner oil at cold start, you need to go to 0W...to get thicker, go to 10W.

In cold weather, like in Canada...I'd personally be running 0W30.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

kind of off topic here, I do agree going 0W30 can be a good idea. Some down sides as well such as lower shear strength, means more oil changes. Also another thing I always wondered is lets say it is -30C out both 0w and 5w wouldn't really flow, it is left up to the the oil coated on since engine was turned off to protect the engine during start up. 5w seems like it would do a better job of sticking on than 0w before things warms up? If these M62 engines had a block heater it would be another story!

As for looking up other car forums, I did go through many BMW ones none that directly answered my questions. Oddly some Subaru forums popped up discussing burnt out turbos and clogged oil systems causing p0011 and p0021 codes. Some of these engines uses same oil pressured based systems for VVT and most of them fixed by replacing or cleaning vvt solenoids. Unless someone has an idea, Ill just have to do some trial and error replacing the VANOS solenoids... cost of repairs is adding up fast!
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

My money is on it being timed wrong. Setting up the cams is simple, but setting the VANOS correctly can be tricky if the shop doesn't have experience with this engine, which will cause these faults.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Not sure what oils you're using...but a good brand's 0W is strong enough for most people's applications. In fact, a lot of 0W and 5W carry the same shear stabilities.

We use Castrol Edge 0W30 (German Castrol), PAO full synthetic. You don't have viscosity improver loss with a full synthetic like seen with conventional oils.

90% of engine wear is at initial start-up...whether it's summer or winter...so a lower viscosity at start up is typically better for most engines.

A thickness of 10 cSt @ 212ºF (operating temp) is a rough standard for us using 0W30 through 10W30...but at 75ºF your oil is 40 cSt for 0W, and 100 cSt for 10W. So there's a big difference when trying to protect your engine during start ups, until that oil warms up...because thick oil typically gets bypassed, meaning you're starving your engine for oil.

I'm sure you know...synthetic oils are much better for temperature extremes...in cold weather, synthetics don't thicken as much when cool...which means thinner oil when starting...which means greater flow and protection. Synthetics also cling better, due to higher film strength, providing what you refer to as "sticking on".

Low temp "cranking temp" for 0W30 oil I refer above to is rated at -35ºC, HT/HS is 2.9, pour point is -65ºC, VI is 167.
For comparison, the 10W30 of the same brand, cranking temp is -25ºC, HT/HS is 2.9, pour point is -36ºC, VI is 151.

VI is the measurement of viscosity change with temperature variations. The higher the number, the more stable your oil is throughout its temperature ranges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

The places I went does do engine rebuilds regularly but they did tell me this is their first M62 rebuild. Sad thing is with in a city population of 800,000 people I can't find a shop that specialize in BMW engines. I can take it back to the same shop but if they couldn't get it right 1st try what is there to say they can get it on the 2nd. Maybe good time to try another places... I did get the car for cheap but as it stands I am about to spend more on repairs than what I can buy another L322 for.

That is a lot of engine oil information Foster! Guess my questions is answered 0W30 is better for winter... went 0W30 in early spring few years ago, engine behaved slightly different (on a different car) worried about sheer strength hence why I went back to 5w30 recommended oil. This was a few years back oil these days would of improved drastically as 0w20 seems now readily used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

This thread is going all over the places lol.... Foster or anyone else, is there a crank case additive you would recommend in cleaning out engine sludge slow and safely? The 5w40 oil used by engine shop after about 400km got pretty dirty, I say it seems more like 3000km oil. Hence why I am trying Seafoam in the crank case. Picked it as it seems the weakest (weaker the safer so not too much sludge brakes off at a time) crank case cleaner.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

I highly doubt that oil alone is the problem, if it were every L322(and anything with the M62 would be having issues in the cold) If anything with the lubrication system, I would be looking for a restriction, either from oil filter debris, or from timing rail debris if they came apart.

The only thing I would suspect that could be from actual oil build up would be internal to the VANOS. These are known to 'gum up' internally overtime, which causes low power output on fully functional engines due to them not being able to fully advance/retard valve timing, but when setting up the timing, can also cause them to not be able to be set properly. To set these up, a DVOM is used to ohm out the unit and check continuity across them to find their end point of travel, as they have no internal lock. If this was not done properly, or they were gummed up enough to not allow an electrical path, the timing is not set correctly, and even if cam to crank was set properly, as soon as the 'slack' in the VANOS is taken up, it is no longer correct.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

I run Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40 from walmart. It's my understanding that 0w-40 shears down to 0w-30.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Believe all oil will shear over time. Doubt any good reputable brand of synthetic oil will shear that fast? Maybe after 5000 km of average driving habits and conditions 0w40 may reach 0w30?... I am no oil chemist so who really knows.

As for my problem it still persists. Looked up some recommended crankcase oil additives, came down to Marvel Mystery Oil and Auto-Rx. Auto-Rx is from a small online company, didn't want to wait for the mail. Got the Marvel Mystery Oil from Walmart instead, will see if it clears the codes. So far engine is staying pretty clean on this 2nd oil change + Seafoam maybe there is no sludge.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

I believe a 0w weight will shear faster than a 5w.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

I was curious, so did a quick google search for the codes with BMW and came up with the following:
"If you have checked the obvious like working CPSs, and made sure all sensors are plugged in, then your sensor plate could be bent. When you take the valve cover off, you will see a circular jig like plate on the very front of the intake camshaft. With the valve cover off, you can see that the plate spins very close to the Cam Position Sensor. When it spins, it gives information to the CPS. If this plate is bent, then the CPS is getting false information, and the ECU doesn't know what position the vanos is in. So it throws these codes. Mine was bent to the point that I could visually see it cocked. So i bought a replacement from BMW, and put it on and it has worked ever since. However, you do need the timing tools to reposition the plate inrelation to the cams. I retimed my motor while I was at it, just to be sure that I wouldn't have to tear it apart again. The whole process really wasn't hard at all. TAKE YOUR TIME!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Hey Viper, I did look into the timing wheel as possible cause. Maybe if you can confirm the following...

It appears the L and R banks uses exact CPS plate cut out? So even if the L and R got mixed, when they go rebuild the engine it should be fine?

Also is it possible for them to installed the timing plates flipped (such as flipped heads and tails on a coin) They are dished so this doesn't seem likely?


It is winter, I do not have a heated garage to work on the car. Ontop of that I paid a large sum of money for this engine rebuild would prefer a fully functional engine after paying that much money.

*Side note, when I was servicing the transmission last night noticed a credit card sized access hole in the bottom of the transmission, under neath the torque converter area. Is does not appear normal (searched online 5HP24 transmission) most of them seem to have a black plastic covering? Would a missing cover plate be a the cause of p0011 and p0021?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

Update... pulled and cleaned the passenger bank VANOS solenoid (soaked it in Marvel Mystery Oil for 4 hours) and cam sensor (cam sensor plate is defiantly not flipped). Cleaned all the connections with brake cleaner. Lastly changed the engine oil. Fired it up both P0011, P0021 codes popped up.

One last thing I can check is the ground wire for VANOS solenoid, maybe weak link and drop in current/ voltage? Not even sure where that is located. So far nothing has helped thinking more and more it the physical timing issue.
 

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Re: Can wrong oil weight viscosity cause P0011 and P0021 on cold start up?

The problem is that the timing is wrong. I had a nasty experience with the two codes when I overhauled my vanos system. The problem in my case was the use of wrong timing camshaft lock set i.e use one meant for bank 1 for bank 2 and vice versa. I have to reopen the engine and do the timing again. Please search for vanos overhaul write-ups and follow the instruction to the letter.
No solution without doing the timing again.
 
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