[Ranger SAR]

I'm under the impression that the 3.5 oil pump is barely adequate. I'm preparing for some desert camping and i'm looking into fitting an oil cooler. I know later classics came equipped from factory with a cooler, but I am concerned about pressure. What do you think?

 

[JohnnoK]

The GM 3.9l V6 engines have the same front cover as the 3.5 V8 with the uprated oil pump as standard fit. Cover is a straight bolt on to the V8 engine.
Then you should be good for oil pressure and volume.

 

[RRToadHall]

Why would pressure be an issue? You are simply adding more cooling area utilizing what is little more than a longer pipe, not additional load. It takes no more load to circulate oil in a longer trip through the cooling circuit.

 

[xalt]

The GM 3.9l V6 engines have the same front cover as the 3.5 V8 with the uprated oil pump as standard fit. Cover is a straight bolt on to the V8 engine.
Then you should be good for oil pressure and volume.

You mean the Buick 3800 series right?

Many T-type guys have actually installed Rover Suffix B front covers because they supposedly provide more reliable pressure.

 

[95classiclwb]

I'm under the impression that the 3.5 oil pump is barely adequate. I'm preparing for some desert camping and i'm looking into fitting an oil cooler. I know later classics came equipped from factory with a cooler, but I am concerned about pressure. What do you think?

if you're worried about oil pressure, first look at the age of the engine. if satisfied with wear and tear due to normal use, contact mark at aluminum v8 dot com. he has an early v8 pressure upgrade kit as well as remote filter relocation and oil cooler kits.
the first time I used one of their pump kits I had a constant 60 psi at idle, cold on a rebuilt 3.5 engine.
the later classics you mention were equipped with the 3.9, you can use/retrofit those 3.9 components on the 3.5. direct fit.

 

[JohnnoK]

You mean the Buick 3800 series right?

Many T-type guys have actually installed Rover Suffix B front covers because they supposedly provide more reliable pressure.

I'm not sure what you call them over the pond, but in SA they were in a limited edition Opel Commodore V6.
Basically the same castings as the V8 but with 2 cylinders lopped off the back and iron versus ally block, cam in the valley, not the heads.
I think you guys referred to it as the odd or even fire engines?...

 

[xalt]

I'm not sure what you call them over the pond, but in SA they were in a limited edition Opel Commodore V6.
Basically the same castings as the V8 but with 2 cylinders lopped off the back and iron versus ally block, cam in the valley, not the heads.
I think you guys referred to it as the odd or even fire engines?...

The Buick "Fireball" V6 fired like the 215 V8, and hence always felt it wasn't running right. After 1967, the Chevy 250 took over on all their cars, and tooling was sold to Kasier-Jeep who used them in the CJ-5 until 1971.

During the oil crisis of 73 a group of Buick engineers went to a junkyard, and convinced their superiors to buy the tooling back from AMC. 3 years after returning to the market, they redesigned the crankshaft to make it "even firing" and bored it out.

 

[KK88RRC]

You can resurface the face of your oil pump and it will dramatically improve your pressure. My cold idle is 40 and hot idle just under 20.

 

[Ranger SAR]

Thanks for all of your valuable input and sage advice.

95classiclwb - don't the 3.9's run their oil coolers through the radiator? I'm not sure my 3.5 rad has provisions. also, do the hoses from the block go through the timing cover? I'm going to drop a note to the folks at aluminumv8.com to see what they have on the shelf.

I was going to run this sandwich plate and an aftermarket cooler:
https://www.holley.com/products/plu...ers/sandwich_oil_filter_adapters/parts/510ERL

I was afraid additional resistance in the system would reduce the pump's ability to properly lubricate the engine. I think I see why this was a naive concern.

KK88RRC - what does resurfacing the face entail? The timing cover or the actual gear itself?

 

[95classiclwb]

"don't the 3.9's run their oil coolers through the radiator"

yes they do and the "sandwich" is what the 3.9 uses as a cooler adapter. on my 3.5 I used an aftermarket external cooler from the shelf of a local parts store as a retrofit.

 

[Ranger SAR]

Great! Thanks for the pro tip.

 

[KK88RRC]

I've been trying to find the write-up I followed but this is a general overview that I found....

"Check the pump too, replace the gears if needed and check the base plate for scoring.

If it is scored then you can resurface it by lapping it on a piece of wet and dry laid on a piece of plate glass. Make sure you use nice even figure 8 motions and you'll soon have a nice flat pump base."

If IIRC, I used some super fine wet/dry with some machine oil. I'll keep searching for the write up since it had pics.

 

[KK88RRC]

Ok I found some of the info I was looking for.... and more.

This is the link with more info & pic of before and after of the oil pump. http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/oilpumpbase.html

I also recalled people with way more knowledge than me saying it is a bad idea because the original face is anodized and the resurfaced face is now just soft aluminum.

"The surface of your oil pump front cover does indeed look rather scored. When new, the entire cover is anodised so as to maximise the useable life. Once the anodising has been worn through, as it the case of the visible scoring present on your cover, further use has ended.

As you expected, it is a pointless exercise in sanding the mating face of the cover to as to eliminate the score marks. The entire face is then free of the hard anodising, and if used in this state, soft aluminium debris will quickly fill the engine as the spinning oil pump gears eat into the cover.


The only viable solution is to purchase another cover." Not so viable anymore. Found a few new ones for sale for around 300 pounds! Full thread is found here.

Which made me wonder & search more. Came across a thrust plate kit by Melling for the Buick 215. I wonder if this would actually work?!?

 

[95classiclwb]

Ok I found some of the info I was looking for.... and more.

This is the link with more info & pic of before and after of the oil pump. http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/oilpumpbase.html

I also recalled people with way more knowledge than me saying it is a bad idea because the original face is anodized and the resurfaced face is now just soft aluminum.

"The surface of your oil pump front cover does indeed look rather scored. When new, the entire cover is anodised so as to maximise the useable life. Once the anodising has been worn through, as it the case of the visible scoring present on your cover, further use has ended.

As you expected, it is a pointless exercise in sanding the mating face of the cover to as to eliminate the score marks. The entire face is then free of the hard anodising, and if used in this state, soft aluminium debris will quickly fill the engine as the spinning oil pump gears eat into the cover.


The only viable solution is to purchase another cover." Not so viable anymore. Found a few new ones for sale for around 300 pounds! Full thread is found here.

Which made me wonder & search more. Came across a thrust plate kit by Melling for the Buick 215. I wonder if this would actually work?!?

advance auto parts kit #P201 plus K201 is what D&D fabrications sold me about 15 yrs ago, a plate, gaskets, piston, 3 different springs, gears and longer bolts.
that and a complete overhaul gave me an initial whooping 80 psi upon start up on cold days using 10w40 oil.
as it warmed it would maintain 60psi.
on extremely hot days with a/c, on idle in gear in city traffic the engine would maintain 40 psi, well beyond the minimum of 5 psi and maximum of 20 listed in the rave.
I used to abuse said engine, eventually it was replaced by a full serpentine 4.6.

on that note, if you were to find a complete 3.9 or 4.2 with serpentine drive and you were so inclined, you could retrofit the serpentine drive components to the 3.5 starting with the front cover with the crank driven oil pump.

furthermore, all your rotating ancillaries can be retrofitted from your 3.5 to any rover v8 motor up to the later bosh blocks.
an old classic with a 4.6 is a joy to drive, light weight with gobs of power...

 

[KK88RRC]

advance auto parts kit #P201 plus K201 is what D&D fabrications sold me about 15 yrs ago, a plate, gaskets, piston, 3 different springs, gears and longer bolts.
that and a complete overhaul gave me an initial whooping 80 psi upon start up on cold days using 10w40 oil.
as it warmed it would maintain 60psi.
on extremely hot days with a/c, on idle in gear in city traffic the engine would maintain 40 psi, well beyond the minimum of 5 psi and maximum of 20 listed in the rave.
I used to abuse said engine, eventually it was replaced by a full serpentine 4.6.

on that note, if you were to find a complete 3.9 or 4.2 with serpentine drive and you were so inclined, you could retrofit the serpentine drive components to the 3.5 starting with the front cover with the crank driven oil pump.

furthermore, all your rotating ancillaries can be retrofitted from your 3.5 to any rover v8 motor up to the later bosh blocks.
an old classic with a 4.6 is a joy to drive, light weight with gobs of power...

Would love to have a 4.6 in her.
Since we're on the topic of oil pressure..... what is considered tooooo high?

 

[95classiclwb]

at 60 psi you're pushing your luck with leaking seals on an old engine. I believe factory states 5 to 20 psi range to be standard, I don't know if anyone ever saw 30 psi out of one of these engines un adultered.

 

[KK88RRC]

I think 5-20 is at idle. WSM states minimum 25 psi at 2400 rpm. All my research only finds minimums. My mechanic said not to worry about 60 but it would be nice to know when you're pushing your luck & gonna blow a seal.

 

[95classiclwb]

30 to 40 psi at 2400rpm on a warm engine.