[sam_rover]

Hey Team,
I've got a 93 LWB, and since I've owned it ~Feb 09 it has had a strange brake pedal application. I was told to flush it, I did and the brake pedal got a little worse. As you depress it you almost hear a vibration/pulsating sound and the brake pedal is very stiff compared to my friend's 95 LWB. So I looked at it some more and I had fluid (think brake fluid, but it was very dirty) around the rear right caliper and rotor (only inside part of the rotor, and not the outside). So I decided to rebuild the two rear calipers. I rebuilt them, cleaned them and bled the brakes. The brakes were perfect as I was pulling out of the drive way, but as soon as I got a few hundred feet away same thing started. I drove it like that for a couple of months (weekend toy), and I noticed there was fluid again at the rear right caliper and rotor.

I bought a used caliper and replaced it, I bled the system and again perfect pulling out of the driveway and then went bad. Yesterday I went to bleed the system again as I usually have air in the system when I do bleed them, and I noticed the rear caliper has fluid on the inside of the rotor and the OUTSIDE part of the INSIDE pad! I can't figure out what the heck is going on! Where the hell is it leaking from? It is not the connection between the caliper as that would cause fluid to be on the outside portion of the rotor as well!!!

I am really puzzled, my brakes still suck. On top of the vibration feedback I get (assuming it is from the air in the system) I have a strange clicking noise which is more like pulsing at each brake pedal application... btw: I have no lights on, my TC and brake light go out after ignition start when the accumulator fills up. ABS go out at 5mph and all sensors are happy.

Please help... has anyone experience anything like this? :think:

 

[piprover]

Are you sure its brake fluid (not insulting your intelligence)? I just had a wheel seal blow out on mine. Could be you've got a leaky inner seal.

dave

 

[rufant]

Smell the fluid, diff oil smells pretty strongly.

Sounds like the power circuit is not functioning properly with the poor brake pedal, this might be helpful

http://www.rangerovers.net/maintenance/brakebleed4.html

 

[sam_rover]

Ok so I checked again today, no brake fluid. Could possibly be diff fluid? But I do have a leak there.

I bled the brakes again, following the RAVE CD and still have a strange noise (as some on LRR said, like a geiger counter). I will follow the procedure listed on RR.net which is pretty much the same thing in a different order. However the first few steps, bleed the master cylinder that is different from the RAVE CD. Do I do this with the master bleed screw? The picture in the diagram and my 93RRC look slightly different. i've posted my pics, I think the first step is talking about the bleed screw which is lowest on the pics I posted, is that correct?
[attachment=0:3jlyy0iu]IMG_1786 (Small) copy.jpg[/attachment:3jlyy0iu]
3. Bleed master cylinder ( highlighted in diagram ).
Open bleed screw on booster, when fluid appears, close bleed screw.

4. Fit tube to bleed screw

5. Re-open bleed screw, depress pedal slowly and progressively.

6. Close bleed screw. Release brake pedal.

7. Repeat instructions 5 and 6 until fluid coming out of bleed screw is clear and there are no air bubbles visible in the fluid.

8. Open bleed screw again, depress brake pedal completely to floor, close screw

 

[rufant]

Your 93 could well be different to RAVE, as RAVE is for 94/95 softdash which is different in many respects.

I'm not sure about the exact answer to your question, i'll try to remember to have a look on mine in the morning unless someone else solves it first.

 

[sam_rover]

Hi Rufant,
Ironically the Rave CD I have and the pictures match my truck. I have a dual circuit, and looking at the image on RR.net I couldn't see that. On the front I have two Hydrostatic, and one other bleed screw on top of the caliper. On the rear just a single per caliper. So I have a total of 8 bleed points on the calipers.

Either way, if people have used this procedure for an ABS RRC I will try to follow it. The brakes work OK now after bleeding, BUT the ABS pump kicks in on the second Brake application which per the RAVE CD means I have to re-bleed again. The pedal is still hard, and the geiger counter is going at each brake application.

:think:

 

[RRToadHall]

Just an idea here, but have you checked for a split brake line or cracked flex? I chased a demon brake leak for months before finally laying under the rig with a buddy pressing the brake pedal. It ended up being a split line. My repeated removal of the caliper at that wheel only made it worse. I have also had flex lines leak and depending on their position at time of braking the fluid would squirt onto different parts. It's a long shot in the dark, but worth a peek.

 

[sam_rover]

I guess I can check for a split brake line, what bothers me is the weird noise (the Geiger counter). Just want to make sure how to fix it so my pedal can feel normal and not very stiff.

 

[Ryzman]

welcome to the club... Range Rovers are amazing vehicles but they are retards when it comes to stopping them. everyone i have ever seen or heard talking about the rrc say they have issues with the brakes... word of advice... replace all ABS components with non ABS stuff... KISS keep it simple stupid... hard part is finding a rrc without ABS...
i feel for ya man. im living with a clicking petal and non responsive brakes for the last 4 months...
best of luck and let us know what you find out...

 

[Danny]

welcome to the club... Range Rovers are amazing vehicles but they are retards when it comes to stopping them. everyone i have ever seen or heard talking about the rrc say they have issues with the brakes... word of advice... replace all ABS components with non ABS stuff... KISS keep it simple stupid... hard part is finding a rrc without ABS...
i feel for ya man. im living with a clicking petal and non responsive brakes for the last 4 months...
best of luck and let us know what you find out...

Not me. I think the brakes are fantastic and stop the car much better than you would expect from a 15 year old, two ton lump of metal.

One thing that can happen is that the front abs sensors are only an interference fit in their housing and have a tendency to work their way out over time. Because the gap between sensor and abs ring increases it can make the abs more sensitive, ie allows it to cut in unnecessarily, before it gets unseated enough to actually throw an error code. The approved fix is to withdraw the sensors and refit with a new bush. In reality I just give mine a gentle tap back in the right direction. Only takes a few minutes, most of which is spent jacking up the car and taking the wheel off.

 

[classicjack]

Im going with Danny on the failed sensor, also the brake booster can be a problem, valves fail and make it feel like abs is activated, this is an expensive part, but can be rebuilt, also used sensors can be had cheap for troubleshooting on e-bay, I've seen them for $25. Good luck on this, when these systems go bad they can be a pain, I understand why the dealer is so expensive, they just reccomend replacing everything.

 

[sam_rover]

I am going to eliminate the ABS since I removed all sensors, cleaned them and re-sat them when I bought the car to correct the TC and ABS light which was on. However I will try to do it one more time just to be sure. I can also swap sensors from my buddy's 95 and try it out.

Are brake booster rebuild kits easily available? I can look into it, I am pretty inclined mechanically and if it doesn't require a lot of special tools I should be able to do this. Will post more once I have more info.

Thanks again guys.

 

[RRToadHall]

welcome to the club... Range Rovers are amazing vehicles but they are retards when it comes to stopping them. everyone i have ever seen or heard talking about the rrc say they have issues with the brakes... word of advice... replace all ABS components with non ABS stuff... KISS keep it simple stupid... hard part is finding a rrc without ABS...
i feel for ya man. im living with a clicking petal and non responsive brakes for the last 4 months...
best of luck and let us know what you find out...

I never had an issue with the brakes on my 95. They always felt very safe and secure and provided dead straight on stopping or slowing from high speeds.

 

[Ryzman]

I am going to eliminate the ABS since I removed all sensors, cleaned them and re-sat them when I bought the car to correct the TC and ABS light which was on. However I will try to do it one more time just to be sure. I can also swap sensors from my buddy's 95 and try it out.

Are brake booster rebuild kits easily available? I can look into it, I am pretty inclined mechanically and if it doesn't require a lot of special tools I should be able to do this. Will post more once I have more info.

Thanks again guys.

ya i think that would be the best course of action... however i found a complete brake system on craigslist today and the guy wants 75 bucks for it... the parts came off a rig that had 60K original miles. i might bite the bullet on this one and replace the pump, "death star", and master cylinder... maybe see if someone in your area has parts available ABS or non and go from there. do not buy from Land Rover... huge waist of money considering these cars sell for about 2500 bucks... the job itself cant be too difficult. i have found nothing so complicated so far that needed professional help... find a donor car? i found one for 500 bucks but i just started school and cant afford it since my books cost a small fortune but 75 bucks for the brake pump, accumulator ball thing, and master cylinder sounds like a deal to me... keep your options open...

 

[Ryzman]

you know its great some of you guys dont have issues with your brake system but for the people that do our options are extremely limited due to cost. instead of gloating about how great your brakes are, how about helping the people that have issues. isnt that what this forum is all about?

 

[sam_rover]

you know its great some of you guys dont have issues with your brake system but for the people that do our options are extremely limited due to cost. instead of gloating about how great your brakes are, how about helping the people that have issues. isnt that what this forum is all about?

Hey Ryzman,
People on this forum are great, there are some suggestions as to what to check for already. I am going to really study the brake system on the Rover and start to eliminate one item at a time.

Sam

 

[Ryzman]

hey sam check the bearing seal that sits on the spindle. also is the fluid covering your rotor fresh or cruddy fluid? could it be water in your bearing grease? is it a blown axle seal? check your gear oil levels on your axle and make sure your full of gear oil or whatever your putting in it... i think the clicking in your brake pedal is separate from your wet rear rotor. im not 100 percent sure but i think the clicking is happening because only either the front brakes are working or the rear but not both. i believe there is a plastic piston in your master cylinder that may be leaking causing low brake fluid pressure, or it could be a worn out accumulator "death star" or it could be a weak abs pump. im not sure as i am having similar problems with my brakes. i think as soon as i get some extra money i will replace everything with gently used parts. check craigslist weekly as there are people willing to part out there rovers. man i wish you the best of luck because i know first hand how frustrating it is...

 

[Ryzman]

interesting read...
http://rangerovers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23569

 

[Ryzman]

hey sam i went on a mini off road trek this afternoon before school and went up a pretty steep incline... and on the way back down i turned on the traction control... my brakes felt a little spongy at first but then the clicking completely went away... i wonder if you completely bleed out the brakes if there might be air in the lines when you bleed them if the traction control is off all the time... try some light offroad and engage the traction control to see if it fixes your clicking pedal... i have not driven the rover since the trip but will in about an hour or so. i hope it fixed itself but not sure.
i have to say with the traction control on it really worked amazing. oh and i will never sell this rover... i have been hooked big time. it crawled up such a steep hill and on the way back down the traction control was tits!!! amazing vehicles!

 

[Ryzman]

so i still have a clicking pedal... going to replace all brake parts ie; pump, accumulator, master cylinder... for a grand total of 75 bucks! cant wait to tear into the system and finally fix it!