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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I wanted to share my recent experience with all of you. I had searched long and hard for an OEM winch mount, and was unable to source one. I really didn't feel like spending $1000+ for a winch bumper, so I found a seller on ebay, bmw_rocket_science, who makes a winch tray similar to the OEM. I decided to take a risk and purchase one. I don't know if I can post the ebay link here but if I can please inform me and I'll do so. The seller had it listed for $375 + shipping with a "make offer" option. In the end I got it for $275 shipped.

Issue number 1: I bought and paid for the mount on 11/15/2011; waited 4 days for some tracking information to be received - nothing from the seller. So I messaged him. He says his name is Michael, but his Paypal address has a name of Joan. He stated that he was waiting for the mounting bolts to arrive and that he should have them within 1 week. That was on a Monday. I waited until the following Tuesday, the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, and no response or tracking info from the seller. I messaged him, he doesn't respond until the day after Thanksgiving, and tells me that it has shipped. He provided a FedEx tracking number. I wait 5 days, no activity has posted to the tracking info on the Fedex website except for "shipment information received". I message the seller telling him that no tracking info is updated, and that it doesn't take Fedex Ground days to deliver from FL to NC. He agreed, and stated that he will look into it. He responds back stating that because he overpaid the shipping costs, they did not ship the box. I called him out on that - BS. I also called Fedex and they told me that not only would they never do that, but also that the tracking number being referenced had a destination of KS. I don't live in KS. I message the seller back, furious at this point, and he responds that he'll look into immediately. TO his credit, he does, and responds rite back. He stated that the Fedex people had put the wrong label on the package, and that it was now fixed. I told him if I did not have a valid tracking number by noon the next day, Sunday, clearly showing the destination to be Charlotte, NC, that I would file a dispute with Paypal. I waited until 2pm the next day - nothing. At this point I filed the Paypal dispute for item not received. He sends me a new tracking number, and it does show the destination to be Charlotte, NC. I call Fedex to confirm the recipient info and they confirm. TO make a long story short, It finally arrived this past Wednesday. I have all of the messages sent through ebay that I can post up here to prove everything that I just wrote.

The tray itself - it seems decent. The brackets, however, are absolute GARBAGE. Please see the photos below. All of the individual pieces used to build the brackets are of disproportionate sizes, cut off-center, are jagged and have lots of metal flashing on them from the cutting process. The welds - a blind man with no hands could have done a better weld job. The weld beads are very inconsistent, and there is spatter present everywhere; once again refer to the photos. So I messaged the seller again, expressing the aforementioned concerns. I stated that due to the delayed shipping, and the poor quality of the brackets, that I was requesting a refund of the shipping costs. The seller agreed, stating that he would refund my shipping costs, and that "he is more than willing to work with me". That was yesterday. I advised him that if I did not receive the refund within 24 hours, that I would file another Paypal dispute for Item Not as Described. The listing states that the winch tray depicted in the photos was made out of scrap metal, and that if purchased, all components would be new. I messaged him back earlier and have not heard from him. I advised that I have searched him, and have encountered numerous posts on the Bimmer forums stating that he engages in bad business practices, and that I know that he has been banned from forums for said practices. I stated that if the refund is not received that I am going to start threads on all of the Land Rover forums warning members not to do business with him - No response from him as of yet.

I have done research on him, and it seems from numerous posts from mostly Bimmer forums, that he has been banned for unprofessional business practices. He apparently sells poor quality items, uses photos of forum members' cars on his website without their permission, etc. The following link is just one example. He apparently has used other similar names on forums after being banned .
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/745994

I don't even know if the brackets will mount up correctly to the frame rails. And since my winch is back-ordered for the next 30 days, it will be at least that long before I know if the entire things even mounts up or nothing but a pile of scrap.

So check out the photos regarding the brackets, tray itself, etc. The brackets are absolute garbage and and he knows it. As such, the entire winch tray is useless. I'm going to post the entire message log from ebay.

CIMG0546.jpg CIMG0547.jpg CIMG0548.jpg CIMG0549.jpg CIMG0550.jpg CIMG0551.jpg CIMG0552.jpg CIMG0553.jpg

Nice craftsmanship, huh?

Here is the ebay message log, from newest to oldest:
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

First of all..
We always want our customers happy. And do our best to achieve that. You attitude has just diminished any possibility of any kind of amiable negotiations. I don't know why you think that your threats are a solution to your demands... WHICH by the way.. is now recorded in print and report to Ebay.
I apologized to you for your inconvenience. When I became aware that Fed Ex had a problem with the box and they did not contact me.. also there was an error on the label in shipping.. I corrected it as soon as I could. It was HUMAN ERROR>> Im sure you have made some mistakes in your life as well. Second of all...I had no control of Fed Ex 's pickup schedule. I responded to you by telling you that I put in a dispute with Fed Ex about the shipping, and my disgruntled customer. I did not promise you anything by a certain time /date. IF I get a refund.. so will you.
And Third... I have a huge disclosure in my listing which apparently you did not read thoroughly but decided slander was your best device.
I build a custom made product that depends on other subcontractors skills to complete. They work here in the USA . I try and keep our hard working Americans from being unemployed. If you think that you can get what I have created for you cheaper, better, and delivered the minute you snap your fingers.. then you should have shopped around. You can say what ever you like.. its freedom of speech. However, Be advised that we reserved the rights to take steps against slander. Thank-you.. and have nice day!

- bmw_rocket_science
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-09-11 14:42:26 PST


Dear bmw_rocket_science,

I
have not received the refund of $75 as you promised... I will now file
another Paypal dispute for item not as described. I will also be
posting new threads on the Range Rover forums.

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-08-11 15:58:58 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

Hello Mark
I will give you a refund, but to do that , the item not received dispute needs to be taken off, or I can't do any
transaction through paypal. There is a hold on funds I need to refund you. I am more than willing to work with you
Best regards
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-08-11 15:45:00 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

After
reading several forums, I also see that you have had multiple problems,
especially on bimmer forums, pertaining to your business practices,
some of which have gotten you banned from said forums. Please issue the
$75 refund for shipping immediately, and we'll just forget about this
transaction - no negative feedback will be left. However, if no refund
for shipping is issued. I will pursue other means.

Respectfully,
-Mark

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-05-11 16:32:36 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

according to Fedex the package has been picked up and is on it's way.
I'll see that Fedex will refund me for the shipping, since it's their mess-up. I then will refund you
what I got refunded
best regards
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-05-11 16:24:08 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

In a sign of good-faith, I think that you should refund at least half of the shipping charges. I think that is only fair.

-Mark

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-04-11 05:49:57 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

Office max opens at 11 I'll be right over there and change out the label.
then when they pick it up tomorrow you'll get your update from fed ex.
here is the new tracking number already 719802315000147
best regards
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-03-11 19:23:08 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Like I said - by tomorrow noon, and I want proof of the delivery address.

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-03-11 19:12:11 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

OHHHHH
my ... ok I see they stick the wrong label on the box... again I
apologize, I seem to be lucky as the fed ex location hasn't shipped the
box off today. So tomorrow I'll pick it up again and then get you the
right label and tracking number... you are right, this was very
unprofessional , and I apologize again, I'll make it up to you
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-03-11 18:30:51 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Alright
Michael - I just spoke with Fedex again - that tracking number is for a
package going to Mark Bishop in Lenexa, KS. NOT ME. Furthermore, they
advised that Fedex Ground does not even operate today, and they never
received the package at all from you; they also stated that they would
never not ship a package based on what you said. If you don't provide
me with a VALID tracking number that shows Charlotte, NC as the
destination by tomorrow at noon, I'm going to file a Paypal claim for
full refund and leave you negative feedback on ebay. This is
ridiculous.

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-03-11 14:38:44 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

Ok it.s sorted out... they actually didn't ship , because the weight on the label was higher than the weight of the box!!!
I
went there and told them that they usually refund me any difference...
around christmas time they get so lazy it's not even funny.
anyway it is of your way now, and I think the old tracking number should work
best regards
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-03-11 05:51:07 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Thanks, Michael. If you could forward the new tracking number when you get it I would appreciate it.

Best,
-Mark

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-03-11 05:24:46 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

I got an update... the fed ex drop off didn't like the weight of the packaging and want me to make a new label
and so didn't ship.But they didn't bother to call me and let me know
I'll go and see what that is all about. however , the box will move your direction, either way today.
I apologize for the delay
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-02-11 13:12:14 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Thanks, Michael. I do appreciate it.

-M

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-02-11 12:10:31 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

absolutely right... let me find out what’s going on I'll come back to you this evening
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Dec-02-11 10:04:07 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Michael,

Could
you please advise what is going on with the shipment? FedEx only has
record of the package shipment information. There is no shipment
information for the item at all - I just spoke with them on the phone.
If it was shipped on 11/25 as you said, it should be here by now, as a
shipment via FedEx ground from FL to NC should not take a week.

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Nov-26-11 12:02:13 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

Hello Mark it's been shipped via Fedex
have a great weekend
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Nov-26-11 10:27:58 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Hello,

No worries. What carrier was it shipped by?

Best,
-Mark

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Nov-26-11 06:05:18 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

Hi Mark
I apologize, I was out of town and didn't see your email. But the tray is on it's way and here is hte tracking #
719802315000130
I hope you had a great thanksgiving
Best regards
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Nov-23-11 06:46:46 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Hi Michael,

Just wanted to confirm shipping of the winch tray today as advised?

Thank you,
-M

- malamuszka09




[HR][/HR]From: bmw_rocket_science
To: malamuszka09
Subject: Re: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Nov-18-11 11:31:33 PST




Dear malamuszka09,

We Have the brackets and Winch tray itself done.
We just need to wait for some of the hardware to arrive, which should be Tuesday. Then Wednesday we'll ship.
thank you for contacting us
Best regards
~michael

- bmw_rocket_science




[HR][/HR]From: malamuszka09
To: bmw_rocket_science
Subject: Other: malamuszka09 sent a message about Range Rover P38 1995-2003 Heavy Duty Winch Tray #150697841992
Sent Date: Nov-18-11 11:14:48 PST




Dear bmw_rocket_science,

Hi,

Just curious when the plate will be shipping?

Thanks,
-Mark
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Oh, and Michael [aka bmw_rocket_science], if that's even your real name, I'm sure you'll be reading this soon. Post whatever you like PLEASE DO :) - I have a plethora of negative information about you from all over the web...try me...
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Oh, I almost forgot, Michael! - I'm sure that Land Rover, USA will be interested to know that you're infringing their copyright of parts of the factory winch plate mounting instructions...No worries though - I've gone ahead and contacted them about that already for you! :thumb:
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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36 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

didn't read all of the posts, but yeah that mount looks like crap.

what the hell did he make that out of? scrap steel and a pair scissors?
 

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Administrator
Joined
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27,834 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

I was wondering how long iot would take ole Michael to surface somehow. His vendor status was pulled here for claiming that his set up was endorsed by Mile Marker. When the folks at Mile Marker caught wind all holy hell broke loose. He is very good at twisting words but even better at the fine art of the back peddle. When he first started into this project he claimed far superior build and design to that of the LR winch mount yet didn't even know what grade 8 hardware was. Needless to say his engineering skills are only bettered by his diplomacy and artistic use of foul language. His language and fighting in the forums got him permabanned from RRnet. Sorry you had to go through this.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
Joined
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9,248 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

He was a member on here, until he got the heave ho by a mod for being a jerk.
Sorry you got burned like that, his stuff is pure junk IMHO.
His name is indeed Michael, but forgot his old screen name now.

Let me know if I can be of any help though.....my stuff is a "little" better than that;-)

Martin
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
Joined
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9,248 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

IIRC Scotty on here has 1 front receiver and a portable winch mount left.....`)
After seeing them myself, I can personally guarantee you will have zero complaints. CNC laser cut etc.

Martin
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Ahhh I see his reputation precedes him! Go figure. That Mile Marker part is just too funny. The actual winch tray itself, in all honesty, looks like it was made by someone completely different than he who made the brackets. I'll post a few pics of it. But, yeah, those brackets are the saddest attempt at engineering I have ever seen. The mounting holes from bracket to winch tray are completely off - the photo actually does it justice...

Martin - I'm sure you're stuff is light years ahead :) I'll let you know if I need any help in fabbing new brackets. BTW - got the A6 heater core on the way. I opted for the aluminum one with plastic sides versus the copper - thanks for that info again :thumb:

Here are photos of the tray itself:

CIMG0555.jpg CIMG0556.jpg CIMG0557.jpg CIMG0558.jpg CIMG0559.jpg

He actually did include grade 8 hardware believe it or not HAHA.

I wish you guys could see the tray in person...the brackets too.

-Mark
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Here is the latest reply just received...it's hilarious!

Dear malamuszka09,

As I stated before.. When I get my shipping refund from Fed EX you will receive yours. Not sure what you don't understand. No need to write about false rumors. That is just jealous gossip. So at first you just complained about the partial shipping refund. But now you claim fault with a custom made order. This is one of many trays that have been made and delivered, no complaints. If you want to send back tray/brackets by all means ...please do.

- bmw_rocket_science
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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2,064 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

YIKES HE"S BACK !!!!:lol: It's amazing how he wormed his way back on to the board...:lol:

So this is actually (Turbos designs ) we just tweak it a bit... I only have the one set at this point. I just told Martin that I needed to drop the set of so I could have others made up. I'll do that Monday for any one who is interested I'll get a few made up..
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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2,565 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

hmm, shame you had to find out this way and retrospectively do reverse research, looks like you were the first guy to have purchased the item and no feedback existed on the item you offered on. perhaps there's a reason it was only $275, that said customer service - or lack off - is another matter. Either way its sad you had to go through this and find out this way and didn't come to or find the board sooner but now your here i'm sure the guys/vendors will point you in the right direction.
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Scotty your setup looks really nice:thumb: I'm just not a fan of the receiver-type mounts.

I figured for the price I would take a shot. He has 100% feedback on ebay (somehow). It wasn't a lot of money but he handled the situation entirely wrong, and I cannot believe that anyone would actually even think about shipping brackets like those that I received. I think I'm going to have 2 new brackets made; 1 piece of 1/4" steel bent at 90* with corner gussets welded in - oh, and symmetrical this time. I measured the bolt pattern for the winch itself and it is spot-on. So I'm going to try and make it work. If all else fails I might just buy a winch bumper :???:
 

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Administrator
Joined
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27,834 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

There are other P38 tray kits out there. All Michael has done is take someone elses winch bed and scrub together some mounts in an attempt to make it work on a P38.
 

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Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Who else makes a tray for the P38? I've been unable to find one at all. Any idea what tray Michael used for this kit? Hummer perhaps?
 

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Registered
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Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

YIKES HE"S BACK !!!!:lol: It's amazing how he wormed his way back on to the board...:lol:

So this is actually (Turbos designs ) we just tweak it a bit... I only have the one set at this point. I just told Martin that I needed to drop the set of so I could have others made up. I'll do that Monday for any one who is interested I'll get a few made up..
Scotty,
I'm interested in a set. PM sent.

Best Regards,
Gary
'98 SE
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
Joined
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9,248 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

The winch tray is a Mile Marker item from a military Humvee. Thus why it looks different. He bought some of Ebay and then used them on a P38. read the thread and it will become clear.
The "American welders" are himself. I told him in his thread to make sure he is using a 220v welder, but that never got answered, along with other things...

Martin
 

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Registered
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267 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

Sorry to read about your experience.
My other car is an E31 (BMW 8 series). BMW Rocket Science is well known within the 8 series community, notorious would be a better description. He has indeed copied other peoples mods and designs, used other owners' photos without permission and generally made a bad name for himself. One to avoid.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
Joined
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2,492 Posts
Re: BEWARE: P38 Winch Mount from BMW_Rocket_Science - LONG Post

IIRC Scotty on here has 1 front receiver and a portable winch mount left.....`)
After seeing them myself, I can personally guarantee you will have zero complaints. CNC laser cut etc.

Martin
I like to hear that you appreciate my work buddy ;)
 
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