Are/will P38s be collectable?
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Everything is collectable to someone.
Not sure, but then a Mk3 Cortina which you would see half a dozen in every street in the '80's, and we more or less threw them away when they got rusty are now worth what i call stupid money for rough models, so when all the P38's that are around are converted to coils then the EAS models will command a higher price lol, so one day I believe they will start to creep up in value and exceed the MK3 L322 in price and collectiveness (is that a word lol), :thumb: as I don't think the BMW engined models won't attract that same Britishness the P38 has.( even Stags with a perfectly good Rover V8 are shunned by the Triumph community) so time will tell I think.
There's bound to be some joker who says that as most owners need to buy 3 cars in order to keep 1 roadworthy, they're already "collectable"...:-?
Once upon a time, I had a 1973 Mk1 Ford Escort as my first car and I sold it and moved on. I saw a Classic car-type magazine where rotten old Mk1 body shells, with more rust than steel were changing hands for £3K!!! OOhhh, if only!
I now believe that if a car has a bit of a cult following, or is significant in car history, it's day will come. I think the Classic is the original 4x4 mould breaker, but the P38 was a serious technological breakthrough at the time, in terms of the intentions of the designers, we're talking Space Shuttle standards here. Okay, the execution of the ideas has come with mixed success, but when everything works, I never cease to be amazed by the onboard technology.
I'm trying hard to keep mine original so that when I'm about 80, I might make a few bob on it! Actually, having looked at my Interest-Only Mortgage, Bank Balance and Pension, I reckon it's my best prospect!
Once upon a time, I had a 1973 Mk1 Ford Escort as my first car and I sold it and moved on. I saw a Classic car-type magazine where rotten old Mk1 body shells, with more rust than steel were changing hands for £3K!!! OOhhh, if only!
I now believe that if a car has a bit of a cult following, or is significant in car history, it's day will come. I think the Classic is the original 4x4 mould breaker, but the P38 was a serious technological breakthrough at the time, in terms of the intentions of the designers, we're talking Space Shuttle standards here. Okay, the execution of the ideas has come with mixed success, but when everything works, I never cease to be amazed by the onboard technology.
I'm trying hard to keep mine original so that when I'm about 80, I might make a few bob on it! Actually, having looked at my Interest-Only Mortgage, Bank Balance and Pension, I reckon it's my best prospect!
Just look at how much you would have to pay for something as mundane as a Mk1 Escort these days, even a rotted out pile of scrap will cost you 4 figures. Keep a tidy, standard P38 in good nick and it will start to appreciate as all the others get used, abused and neglected. I've seen very nice, low mileage P38s going for £5k plus yet you can now pick up an early L322 for only a couple of grand more.
As far as the U.S. Market is concerned, I dont think they'll be worth much any time soon but there are already people willing to pay as much as 5 times book value for one in showroom condition with low miles - and I'm certain that market will remain strong.
I ended up scrapping my old Classic 3.5 V8 a few years ago because I simply couldn't sell it, even with 4 months MOT. Dropped the advertised price to £250 and got one caller who looked and never returned. All it needed was Sunroof Seal, and A-Pillars de-rusting.
Final scrap price was £230 . . . how gutted am I now :naughty:
Final scrap price was £230 . . . how gutted am I now :naughty:
Equally, I paid £900 for a fairly scruffy '93 Classic LSE around 5 years ago. Ran it for a couple of years and then parked it up and used it as a standby in case the P38 was playing up (which it did regularly when I first got it). Did a few bits and pieces on it, put 12 months MoT on it and stuck it on eBay around a year ago expecting to get maybe £1500 tops. It sold for £2500 and the guy that bought it was ecstatic and reckoned it was in far better condition than he could have hope for. So even if it had been far worse than it was, he would still have paid that for it.
Certainly will be collectable soon but whether will be silly money collectable or more stable (ish) prices for use / collect folks I don't know. Silly money seems to be ether dead rare and exotic or nearly all rotted out but wanted by the "I want the first car I loved" brigade. Best guess is its going to get into the Bristol V8 price ranges at best so not stupid. Lot of similarities to the Bristol too in build techniques, intrinsic durability and overall being a very capable car which the punditaria always get wrong.
Assuming we are still allowed to buy fuel for and run them the P38 is probably among the last of the high(ish) end collect and keep running vehicles. As opposed to collect, polish, trailer and show ones. Mechanics are generally rugged and fixable. Weak points are known and can be dealt with. Even the BECM et al isn't beyond reverse engineering for a small collectors market if someone really, really wanted to. Compare to an L322 and later along with similar vintage and market level cars. Up to the gills with electronics and sensors which realistically aren't going to be replaceable once supplies run out, I'm told there are no new computers left for some high end 1990's Mercs. Engines pretty much beyond re-building and transmissions just too complex and highly engineered for small run replacement parts or make one good out of three expedients to work any sense. Old car blues are a pain with anything, however simple. Older L322's are already suffering badly in this respect with "keep changing parts until the problem falls off" repair expedients being resorted to a bit too often. And thats with cars in regular use. I can see a lot of the modern stuff just refusing to wake up again after sitting for a few months.
From what I can see P38 prices have pretty much stabilised for taxed, MoT'd and could put into service cars. My smart but not pristine 77,000 mile model year 2000 HSE 4.0 cost me £2,900 three years back which was a bit low but not an exceptional bargain. Almost certainly hafta pay more now.
Clive
Assuming we are still allowed to buy fuel for and run them the P38 is probably among the last of the high(ish) end collect and keep running vehicles. As opposed to collect, polish, trailer and show ones. Mechanics are generally rugged and fixable. Weak points are known and can be dealt with. Even the BECM et al isn't beyond reverse engineering for a small collectors market if someone really, really wanted to. Compare to an L322 and later along with similar vintage and market level cars. Up to the gills with electronics and sensors which realistically aren't going to be replaceable once supplies run out, I'm told there are no new computers left for some high end 1990's Mercs. Engines pretty much beyond re-building and transmissions just too complex and highly engineered for small run replacement parts or make one good out of three expedients to work any sense. Old car blues are a pain with anything, however simple. Older L322's are already suffering badly in this respect with "keep changing parts until the problem falls off" repair expedients being resorted to a bit too often. And thats with cars in regular use. I can see a lot of the modern stuff just refusing to wake up again after sitting for a few months.
From what I can see P38 prices have pretty much stabilised for taxed, MoT'd and could put into service cars. My smart but not pristine 77,000 mile model year 2000 HSE 4.0 cost me £2,900 three years back which was a bit low but not an exceptional bargain. Almost certainly hafta pay more now.
Clive
Would you fly on a space shuttle that had the quirks of a P38?
Kind of like a submarine built airtight as s Defender.
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All we need is David Beckham or Brad Pitt to be seen in a P38 in their scruffy jeans and we'll be millionaires over night! Then who will be laughing last! Now if we find which garage services their cars and get them to take on a P38 as a courtesy car....... I see a cunning plan Baldrick. `)
...i dont know answer to mentioned question, but i do know that P38 is very fine headturner...every single time i went for meeting (i always use P38, I have few vehicles), it was massive subject of interest, standing there among all new fancy cars (Porsche, Mercs)comming out newdays, and it doesnt look outdated at all..sleek, clean lines with some sort of 'high' attitude, really making this piece of metal standing out..i guess, with time will for sure gain some value..
I personally think that give it another few years and it will definitely be something more of a 'collectors item'.
At the moment here in the UK, I am seeing a lot of them being broken for parts - maybe when there is nothing really wrong with them. Seen a few going for breaking because of silly things like head gasket gone.
Heard of a 2001 that's going to be scrapped and there's NOTHING wrong with it... It is going to be scrapped because the people who had it didn't pay a garage for work, so the garage is selling it to someone I know at the cost of parts that they put in to fix it over a year ago. They've told him they want it scrapped, to 'teach the owners a lesson' even though after not wanting to pay for a couple of EAS items, apparently they went out and bought a brand new RRS...
There is a lot of people in the UK that I deal with that have the attitude of 'they're not worth fixing, and worth a lot more in parts' which sometimes is true.. but every one that gets broken for parts means there's one less P38 on the road, which as they become rarer, I believe the value will go up.
I have also heard (but not confirmed) that there is a company around Oxfordshire somewhere that completely refurbished them. Replaces any work/broken parts with genuine brand new etc. Was told that cost of restoration is around £80K!!!! The guy I was talking to asked them what the market was for a P38 like that... The answer was 'wealthy people who have had newer ones, and haven't liked the styling/reliability/finish etc of them and wanted a reliable P38...
So I definitely think there is a market out there for GOOD P38's - and in the next few years, as the major issues with the newer ones start to present themselves, and parts prices are horifically expensive, and less easy to 'DIY on the driveway' like a P38, then I believe this will also push the cost of a decent P38 up.
I know I'll be keeping mine for years to come, as I'm in no position to purchase/maintain a newer model at the moment, and I love driving the P38. It has character, unlike the newer vehicles. (had a lovely new Audi A6 as a rental vehicle back in August and whilst it was immaculate and modern - just had absolutely none of the character the P38 has. I couldn't sniff at the 56mpg fuel economy though!)
I guess time will tell though but that's my 0.02
At the moment here in the UK, I am seeing a lot of them being broken for parts - maybe when there is nothing really wrong with them. Seen a few going for breaking because of silly things like head gasket gone.
Heard of a 2001 that's going to be scrapped and there's NOTHING wrong with it... It is going to be scrapped because the people who had it didn't pay a garage for work, so the garage is selling it to someone I know at the cost of parts that they put in to fix it over a year ago. They've told him they want it scrapped, to 'teach the owners a lesson' even though after not wanting to pay for a couple of EAS items, apparently they went out and bought a brand new RRS...
There is a lot of people in the UK that I deal with that have the attitude of 'they're not worth fixing, and worth a lot more in parts' which sometimes is true.. but every one that gets broken for parts means there's one less P38 on the road, which as they become rarer, I believe the value will go up.
I have also heard (but not confirmed) that there is a company around Oxfordshire somewhere that completely refurbished them. Replaces any work/broken parts with genuine brand new etc. Was told that cost of restoration is around £80K!!!! The guy I was talking to asked them what the market was for a P38 like that... The answer was 'wealthy people who have had newer ones, and haven't liked the styling/reliability/finish etc of them and wanted a reliable P38...
So I definitely think there is a market out there for GOOD P38's - and in the next few years, as the major issues with the newer ones start to present themselves, and parts prices are horifically expensive, and less easy to 'DIY on the driveway' like a P38, then I believe this will also push the cost of a decent P38 up.
I know I'll be keeping mine for years to come, as I'm in no position to purchase/maintain a newer model at the moment, and I love driving the P38. It has character, unlike the newer vehicles. (had a lovely new Audi A6 as a rental vehicle back in August and whilst it was immaculate and modern - just had absolutely none of the character the P38 has. I couldn't sniff at the 56mpg fuel economy though!)
I guess time will tell though but that's my 0.02
:grin: `) :-? /
:x :doh: :lol: :dance: LOL the many faces of a P38 owner!!!
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I think they are already something of a collectable (especially the LR Special Editions , Overfinch and Callaway conversions ) and as time goes on and more of the knackered-codged up ones are scrapped it will become even more so.
Look at what the old series Land Rovers and nice Range Rover Classics are fetching now , who would have ever thought that would be the case.
Of course there will always be people who see no value in old cars and view them of somewhat of a liability, but smart enthusiasts always seem to spot the models that will always be desirable.
Look at what the old series Land Rovers and nice Range Rover Classics are fetching now , who would have ever thought that would be the case.
Of course there will always be people who see no value in old cars and view them of somewhat of a liability, but smart enthusiasts always seem to spot the models that will always be desirable.
If they are in the US it hasn't happened yet. I just bought a '97 with 130k on the clock for $2100 and it'd been sitting for sale for some months asking $2700.
As someone mentioned earlier, everything becomes potentially collectible, even lousy cars, given enough time passing. I'd guess that the P-38 might benefit among off-road enthusiasts of the future given the design direction of the newer versions. But then, are off-road enthusiasts really looking for a cherry Range Rover? We'll see.
As someone mentioned earlier, everything becomes potentially collectible, even lousy cars, given enough time passing. I'd guess that the P-38 might benefit among off-road enthusiasts of the future given the design direction of the newer versions. But then, are off-road enthusiasts really looking for a cherry Range Rover? We'll see.
Look at the Edsel or Studebaker. Couldn't give them away when new. Now you can't buy one without breaking the bank.
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A 1960 Edsel Ranger or Studebaker Hawk went for around $2500 and it takes an exceptional example of either to break $20,000 today. Know what $2500 1960 US dollars equal in 2014, inflation adjusted, dollars? $20,000. That's just under 4% inflation/increase per year, which means, if you'd invested your money in almost anything, you'd have done better than buying and keeping in mint condition a 1960 Edsel or Studebaker. :???: On the other hand, the iconic '57 Chevy Bel Air, sold originally for about the same money, can bring anything from $30-75,000 today.
The '57 Chevy is somewhat unique in its desirability, for a mass-produced car, given that it didn't even outsell Fords when it was produced. So, you might have made $10-55,000 on one over the last half century or so. If instead of buying the Chevy in '57, you saved your money and bought an AC Cobra a decade later, for about $6500, it'd command anything from $400,000- 1,000,000+ today, depending on the fickleness of the market. I expect there were too many Range Rovers made to see that kind of return on investment. And even limited production runs isn't a guarantee of collectibility; a 450SEL6.9 M-B, of which only 7000 were made, and a seriously fast sedan, can be had for less than $15,000 today. Personally, I think cars make lousy investments, unless you buy one cheap and keep it, getting great use and pleasure out of it.
Besides, you're going to drive it 'til the wheels fall off anyway, aren't you?
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