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1995-2002 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I have a 1996 RR DSE 2.5L with something more than 300,000 km on the clock.
It won't start, and my local helper is too busy to give a prompt response.
I think I have narrowed the problems down to two areas.
1. (a) The fuel lift pump in the tank which I have good reason to suspect has been wired since maybe 150,000 km to run all the time. I suspect it is not pumping. Please advise the best way and location to test this without cutting a hole in the load area.
1. (b) If I were to install a reverse flow valve in the fuel line, where's the best place to install it?

2. Glow-plug power relay. How can I tell whether or not it is working? Glow-plug heather timer, also, how to tell if it is working?

3. Finally, a third item which may be contributing to causing the problems. Please go to
http://www.brianswale.com/zuikoholics/RR-ECU/index.htm

and look at the bottom item which relates to a light I have been able find no information about - see the red arrow.
Many thanks. BJ
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Can't help with the first two but the third one has come up before. It's the diesel equivalent to the Check Engine lamp.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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If you disconnect the fuel line from the filter you can run some diesel into a container. It should deliver a minimum 180mls in 10 secs. Check out the pump relay and fuse if there is a problem. The handbook will give the number and location. If it has been wired to run all the time, look for extra wiring added around the relay. Forget about the reverse flow valve. Replace worn parts and get the car back to standard.
A simple multimeter should be enough to check out the glow plug circuitry. Get yourself a copy of Rave.
 
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glowplug timer=glowplugpower relay
it's situated next to the Engine ECU behind the battery in the box
originaly the pump in the tank is powered by the glowtimer untill the engine runs.

testing if it works? measure at the output or at the glowplugs for current.

other option might be that the BECM lost sync withe the engine ECU so immobilisation code needs reprogramming in BECM
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks everybody.
I KNOW the glowplug relay isn't working because after I took the vehicle to mechanics for another job (testing compression on all cylinders) suddenly it would not start and they told me that the relay was not working.
They tested using a multimeter while cranking to start. They started it so I could take it home, using ether. I did that successfully for about 6 times and now that method does not work either so for several weeks it has sat outside my house looking like a wounded bull.

What I'd like to be able to check is whether it is the glowplug relay (is there some way I can tell just by looking at it?), and/or is there another component causing it to fail.

AND I have to check initial fuel supply.

Thanks, bj
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter #6
Darn it, I just lost a carefully crafted addendum.!

I do not have a multimeter nor do I know how to use one.
My local expert ( 200 miles away) said I need one and should get one from the local big box store for about $10. Ha. None to be found in the big box store.
Local auto gear retailers have them for from $49 to $150+ and the same prce range applies in the local auction site (http://www.trademe.co.nz).

However, I have ordered a book about multimeters through a book site (www/bookfinder.com), and it should be here soon.

As far as getting all components in the fuel supply system up to scratch, that is currently out of the question. About 4 years ago I spent about $2,000 on the FIP; this included $1,250 for a new stainless steel main shaft specially turned in Sydney Australia. It needs about the same spent on it again, as I had just the most critical components sorted.

I really want to ensure that the FIP has fuel right there when it needs it, eg when starting, and it seems to me that a non-return valve would make a lot of sense.

Comment and specific advice from anybody who has done this will be most welcome. I know from what I have read that some RR owners have done this.

Thanks again, BJ
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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While it is useful, you don't necessarily NEED a multimeter for car work. You are only ever going to be working with 12V so a standard side light bulb and two bits of wire would do the job. If you are looking for something with volts on it, connect one wire to ground and use the other as a probe, if looking for a ground signal, connect it the other way round.

Having just looked at the diagram, find the glow plug control unit and check the following:
It has 12V on the thick red wire from the battery
The inbuild 80A fuse hasn't blown (assuming it is external to the unit as I've never even opened the bonnet on a diesel)
There is 12V on the Red/White wire on pin 12 of the connector when the ignition is on
There is a connection to ground on the Black wire on pin 5 of the connector
When you initially turn the ignition on when you would expect the glow plugs to operate, that there is 12V on pins 1, 2, 3, 7, 8 and 9 of the connector.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for that, Gilbertd,
The Electronic Troubleshooting Manual recommends using a multimeter and not an automotive bulb for testing because a testing circuit with only a bulb can cause serious damage to diodes and similar delicate electronic components. Not that I expect at this moment to go into those places. BJ
 

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That's right but it also tells you to disconnect the battery at every available opportunity but I didn't disconnect the battery even when I took my engine out! They err on the cautious side, sometimes a little too cautious. With the glowplug relay/timer unit, you aren't looking at complex electronic components, you are looking at high current drain units that will draw far more current than a sidelight bulb so you won't damage anything there.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have been pre-occupied with other things for several weeks and only recently have I managed to get back to my Rangie.
Please click on this URL which covers much of what I have been doing.
http://tinyurl.com/kgpu559
Now I'm wondering if the blown exterior fuse I discovered is the 80 amp fuse that Gilbertd mentioned.
Are these fuses for sale? And if so, where?
Comments on my rather timid adventures into the bowels of a Rangie will be welcomed..
I have not bought a multimeter yet, but started by buying a book which covers auto electrics from the viewpoint of a mechanic, and also deals with multimeters.
The book is Tracy Martin - How to Diagnose and Repair Automotive Electrical Systems. 2005 ISBN 978-0-7603-2099-0
Found through http://www.bookfinder.com
Many thanks, Brian
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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The blown bit you have found in the glowplug timer unit is the 80A fuse. Not sure of you can get household fuse wire in NZ but in he UK it used to be used in the main fusebox in a house (these days it's all trip switches) so you can still buy it from a hardware or DIY store. That comes in different thickness's for different ratings so I would have just put 4 strands of 20A fusewire between the two screws.

In you picture at the bottom of the page, the light on the dash is the diesel equivalent to the check engine light, or malfunction indicator light found on a petrol car. It's telling you the ECU has detected a fault but it would need a code reader plugging in to find out what the fault is and clear it.
 

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The 20 amp fuse wire idea is good! I have seen fusewire in the shops here in NZ. That is a strange place for a fuse, but with it blown, all bets are off regarding "Normal" operation. Get a test light from the supercheap store as this will indeed tell you 90% of what you are looking for. It will also have a small bulb inside that will not draw enough current to harm anything you are working with.
Out of sheer curiosity, where abouts in NZ are you? I am currently floating around in the far North.....If, by chance, you were nearby, I would be happy to have a look. (I have a DMM and am not afraid to use it!)
 
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The blown fuse is the fuse for your glowplugs, if this is blown, the plugs won't glow (AND, in original wiring, the in-tank pump won't pump as it's relay gets powered by the glowplugtimer (parallel on one of the leads to the plugs)

These fuses are quiet commonly available in carparts-stores overhere in europe.

If you can get a 80A maxifuse, you could solder some wire to the terminals and crimp some eyes to the wire and put those eyes under the screws from the broken fuse
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hello Bolt,
I live a long way from the Far North. Clyde in Central Otago. 03 449 2277
Thanks for asking !!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for all your helpful responses.
But they give rise to another question
If the unit holding the blown 80 amp fuse is the TIMER for the glow-plug heater, then where is the actual relay?
Or is it in the same little plastic box that holds the timer?
When I get the replacement, I might well dismantle one or the other to find out exactly what is inside.
 

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Ahh well, it was worth a shot!
In any case, The Timer is a part of the relay, or to put it the other way around, the relay has a timer circuit built in. When you open yours, you will find the coil, the contacts, and a small circuit board inside.
As a relay is nothing more than an remotely operated switch, with the fusible link blown, it will fail to operate, and as has been pointed out already, the Fuel pump is powered by the output side of the relay, so it will not work either.
Without looking up the diesel wiring diagram in Rave, I am not sure if the 12 volts for the relay coil comes through the fuse as well, so it would not even click with the link blown.
I say get some fusewire and make a new one!
What could possibly go wrong??
Ya never know, you might just fix it!
Cheers!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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The fuse is in the supply to the contacts so the relay should still click, it just doesn't have any power to supply to the glowplugs and fuel pump.
 

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Thanks for clarifying that.
I was not sure if they were switching Pos or Neg. with the ECU
So.....If the glow plug relay clicks, once you replace the fusable link, it may just work? (!)
 

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Thanks again Gilbert,
I am floating around in NZ at present, and do not have a copy of rave on the shipboard 'puter. (Shall have to fix that!)
It certainly appears that it is not "an undocumented fuse" as OP posited in his link (Interesting it is "Fuse 0".... ) and if renewed, and if the coil is being powered, and it clicks, good things could happen.
Cheers,
Tom
 
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