[james]

I was driving around today, covered about 40 miles, stopped.
3 hours later another 12 miles.
Stopped.
1/2 hour later set off again, another 20 miles covered.
Stopped, engine off. 5 seconds later, tried turning the engine on again, would not start. The starter would turn and turn, but would not catch.

I checked the dizzy cap, all clean and good, all leads look good, unplugged and plugged lead to the ignition coil.

Tried this on and off for about an hour, before calling a tow truck and getting taken home

The RR is now sitting sadly in my drive and still won’t start. It’s now getting to the point where the battery is getting a little low.

Now this may be relevant: Yesterday there was a LOT of rain here (several inches) and I blasted through some fairly deep puddles. After I while I did encounter some misfiring and loss of power for about 30 seconds, but the RR was fine after that, and I did not encounter any problems before I broke down today.

Any ideas what’s going on here?
Thanks,
James

 

[HUMMER H1]

do u know were the electronic module is? attached to distributor. sometimes the ground connection is not good and it will make you rover die during driving or if u turn it off it wont start . it happened to me on 2 of my rovers. try to movie it back and worth gently and try to start again

in fact it hapent to me yesterday 2pm during night offroad.

 

[james]

Thanks for that, I'll take a look at the ignition amplifier module.

I tried starting the thing again this morning after sitting all night, and it still would not start

Tonight, I'll pull one of the HT leads and see if I'm getting a spark.
James

 

[Rainbird]

If it's an 89 then it could be the fuel pump overrun switch getting stuck. Does it cut out when you take your foot off the gas?

If so, then it's like the problem I had which is that the fuel pump over run valve was getting sticky and not returning to the position to allow fuel. There's a relay near the air intake which you can bridge to bypass the over run which I used a couple of times to get it restarted.

The problem is that the switch is right at the back of the engine and gets quite hot. On the 3.9 engines, it's moved further forwards and stays cooler which seems to sort the problem out

 

[james]

Hey thanks for the reply. Mine is the 3.9l engine.

No, it's never cut out when taking the foot off the gas. In fact, it normally starts and runs wonderfully. Just this one time where it will not start at all.

I know this isn't a scientific test, but when cranking for a long time I can start to smell gas, like I'm flooding the engine, so I'm pretty certain I'm getting fuel. It leads me to believe that lack of spark is the problem. I'm just hoping it's something as simple as the ignition coil being out.

Another thought is it might be my alternator. For a while, the battery light was on dimly whilst running, and my tachometer has never worked properly (yup bad signs). Over the past few days, the tachometer needle has been rather more active, bouncing around...

 

[Rainbird]

If you can smell fuel, then it's more than likely to be a spark problem. Are the distributor cap and rotor arm genuine Lucas items or pattern parts? The Rover V8 is really fussy about these and will not run properly on cheap pattern parts. I know of several people who have gone through expensive "fixes" only to find that a cheap rotor arm was the problem.

By the way, in case you don't know, don't just pull the rotor arm off, you need to hold down the reluctor (octagonal shaped thing under the rotor arm) on the distrubutor with a screwdriver when removing the arm otherwise you'll dislodge the bob weights which will require a distributor re-build. If you do know, then apologies for stating the obvious.

If you don't know the history or age of the leads and coil, then I'd replace these as a matter of course. They're no too expensive and then at least you'll know that the HT side is in good nick. The spluttering after puddles would tend to indicate that there's a spark problem.

The dim light on the alternator may indicate that one or more of the diodes has packed up, but I'd be surprised if it caused the engine to cut out if the battery's OK unless it got totally soaked and something shorted out

Peter

 

[james]

I'm not sure if the distributor is Lucas or not, I can check later.

I've just ordered a new Alternator (Bosch) and ignition coil (Lucas) and I'll take a look at the amplifier module tonight. Hopefully one of these will fix the problem..
Thanks,
James

 

[james]

Well, did a spark test and there is spark. However I got the feeling the spark was unenthusiastic. I replaced the spark plugs whilst I was messing around there, but no luck.

I also checked the amplifier module on the side of the dizzy, unplugged and replugged the cables, but everything seeming tight.

I'm still thinking it's the alternator, due to the tachometer bouncing around wildly while the problem was occurring....

 

[HUMMER H1]

alternator has noting to do about starting. you can run your rover even without alternator about 15 min if your battery is strong.

so ur problem is different .

if u have spark strong spark? then you have fuel problem . did u Cheek the inertia switch under the driver seat?

 

[james]

Yep, I had a spark, but it didn't seem very powerful. I do another check tonight.

Haven't checked the inertia switch, could you point me to some info?

I've just done some reading on the fuel pump, sounds like that is another possible culprit.

 

[HUMMER H1]

Yep, I had a spark, but it didn't seem very powerful. I do another check tonight.

Haven't checked the inertia switch, could you point me to some info?

I've just done some reading on the fuel pump, sounds like that is another possible culprit.

inertia switch is under the driver seat and they go bad sometimes and your truck will stop running, its usually for accident to cut the fuel to prevent fire .

why dont you open the fuel line from the top of the engine and have someone crank the motor for you, then you can see if there is fuel coming or no.

89 is very simple system. but make sure you have strong spark.

first >> pull the main wire that come from your coil to distributor and check 4 the spark . it should shoot at least half inch to an inch spark.

then pull any wire from the plugs and check how strong is that. is should be the same half inch to one inch spark, that will tell us electronic part of the truck is fine

so you can go after the fuel

 

[james]

why dont you open the fuel line from the top of the engine and have someone crank the motor for you, then you can see if there is fuel coming or no.

OK, bear with me here, fuel systems are a new one on me. Where is the fuel line on the top of the engine? Also, what's a safe way for me to test this, as I don't fancy spraying gas everywhere (assuming the pump is working and the filter is not clogged)

 

[HUMMER H1]

why dont you open the fuel line from the top of the engine and have someone crank the motor for you, then you can see if there is fuel coming or no.

OK, bear with me here, fuel systems are a new one on me. Where is the fuel line on the top of the engine? Also, what's a safe way for me to test this, as I don't fancy spraying gas everywhere (assuming the pump is working and the filter is not clogged)

fuel line is on top of the motor far back passenger side , open in going line put some small container so it wont go everywhere, then u can have someone crank it. in a few sec u should have fuel coming. and its NOT gonna have lots of pressure. that's normal. > some ppl think it should spray like a fire truck < but no

if no fuel then u know its fuel pump.
dirty filter will never let you on the road, it will give your rover no driving power . so don't even touch that.


by the way did you check the spark. from the coil to distributor >>and from distributor to plugs?

 

[james]

Thanks for all the advice so far. I've just about got all the parts I'm going to replace, so should start working on this properly tomorrow.

I did a quick test for fuel pressure by pulling the fuel hose after the filter and cranking the engine. There was no fuel, but the battery was so low, that this could be the culprit. The fuel pump inhibitor under the drivers seat was depressed.

One thing I didn't check yet was the fuel pump relay/fuse. This is one of the 2 under the drivers seat, correct? I'm not sure where I read this, but I seem to recall that the 2 relays under the seat are the same, and that you can swap them over to check if one has failed. Is this correct?
Thanks,
James

 

[HUMMER H1]

that's correct, but most of the time when rovers are powered by the tow truck is fuel pomp or module

 

[Diggaz]

I dont think you have the access hole for your fuel pump, it makes it easy to change/test the pump. Not sure what year they put the access hole in but you can check for it under your carpet in the back, if not you will have to drop your tank to replace your pump.
If your battery has enough juice to crank over it has enough to pump fuel. the pump turns on in key position 2 and your can sometimes hear it kick on. if your fuses/relays are good its most likely your pump or a bad connection somewhere.
I think some people use a generic brand of pump to save on cost but I have never done it myself. You should have no problem dropping the tank its just a bit of a dirty job, I would not pay more than a couple hours for a mechanic to do it.

 

[HUMMER H1]

NAPA PART# P74OO6 1989 CADILAC SEVIL. SAME PUMP AS ROVER, much much cheaper and works better so far on mine

 

[james]

Yep, no fuel pump access hole on mine

The tank is out, the fuel pump is out, but the parts have not arrived yet. I ordered a Delphi fuel pump which is listed as a direct replacement.. we'll see when it gets here.

 

[james]

A couple of pics, here's the dropped tank:

[attachment=1:13undro2]IMG_6341_copy.jpg[/attachment:13undro2]

And here is what I'm hoping is the cause of my problems:

[attachment=0:13undro2]IMG_6344_copy.jpg[/attachment:13undro2]

 

[Diggaz]

Good job James, you should be able to test the old pump by supplying it with 12v positive and negative.