5-liter V8 gas engines specs and components

8097 Views 16 Replies 5 Participants Last post by avos, Feb 13, 2010

umbertob

Discussion Starter · Feb 10, 2010

Detailed components and systems breakdown of the new 5-liter V8 gas engines (both normally aspirated and blown versions) used on 2010s LR4, RRS and RR (as well as many Jags), the document contains lots of useful info for petrolheads.[attachment=1:2s1mzz3d]JLR-V8 AJ133 5.0 liter engine Components&Systems.pdf[/attachment:2s1mzz3d]

Engine Management System for same engines:[attachment=0:2s1mzz3d]JLR-V8 AJ133 5.0 liter engine EMS.pdf[/attachment:2s1mzz3d]

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Ukraine Range

· #2 · Feb 10, 2010

Good info thanks! Had no idea that one belt controlled the accessories AND the blower. Says that it operates the supercharger at an engine speed of 2.1 - I assume this is 2100 rpms so does that flat out mean you're beginning to make boost at that rpm? Cause typically you have to lean into the throttle at least 3/4 of the way to start making boost. I could drive my Cobra at 65 without making boost as long as I kept under 3/4 throttle.

avos

· #3 · Feb 11, 2010

It has actually a seperate belt for the SC. With 2.1 they mean the SC turns 2.1 times than the speed of the engine.
Very good engine imho, and easy to tweak also.

Ukraine Range

· #4 · Feb 11, 2010

avos said:
It has actually a seperate belt for the SC. With 2.1 they mean the SC turns 2.1 times than the speed of the engine.
Very good engine imho, and easy to tweak also.

Hey thanks for the info, thought it'd be kind of strange to have one belt wrapping around EVERYTHING. And makes sense regarding the 2.1 figure - engine turning at 5k rpms and the Eaton is spinning @ 10.5k rpms, which is well under that particular M112's true capacity by the way (it's more like 15-16k before its law of diminishing returns). Yes that is overspinning it but you're still making good power. People spinning that thing at 18-20k aren't really seeing the gains anymore and run the risk of blowing the rotors apart.

Yes they are easy to tweak, shall we open up this can of worms again?

There are people here who feel you cannot get significant gains with a pulley and tune because there are no actual dyno sheets out there. True you cannot get specific #'s, but 50-60 hp on either the 4.2 or 5.0 is easily within reach, it's just who wants to volunteer to hand their car over to a tuner??? The smaller pulley and belt I do not fear, but the fuel and timing curves? That's what I'm weary of.

Boy I'd like a nice solid +40 rwhp on mine...

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TripleE

· #5 · Feb 11, 2010

Ukraine Range said:
There are people here who feel you cannot get significant gains with a pulley and tune because there are no actual dyno sheets out there.

I don't recall anyone ever saying you cannot. Like you said though, it just hasn't been shown for us.

Ukraine Range said:
Boy I'd like a nice solid +40 rwhp on mine...

Maybe you need to convert to one belt and rwd.

Ukraine Range

· #6 · Feb 11, 2010

Understood - my interpretation is that people were saying 'how do you know it's possible without a dyno sheet' which to me inferred that they didn't want to believe 40-50 hp was possible without actual proof. Said bump in power is entirely possible I don't need any dumb dyno graph to tell me what the numbers would be with a pulley and tune. I post this so confidently because I have A LOT of experience with the M112. We've already seen from Umberto's pdf he posted that with the 5.0 that the Heaton spins at 2.1 x the engine speed so at 6k it is spinning at 12,600 rpms which is not even close to the factory ceiling of ~14k and even farther away than what I was spinning my Cobra's Heaton at (~16k). That's 25% OVER the factory limit and I was still in a very safe range in terms of pulley size, making power and a/f ratio. There are many, many guys out there running an even smaller pulley than I was with no problems at all.

I say with a good degree of certainty that pulley, tune, intake and exhaust on a 4.2 S/C will net you a solid 60-70 rwhp, of course depending on pulley size and aggressiveness of the tune.

So again, who's going to be the brave soul who tries it out (not me!) :think: . You can use the pulleys already out there for the mustangs (Reichard Racing) and a Gates belt, which combined will run you $175, and the custom tune including handheld will be about $500. So for a total of $675 or so, you'll have a solid gain in power, better fuel efficiency and an overall better running RRS!!! Oh yeah you also gotta find an AWD dyno!

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PJPR01

· #7 · Feb 12, 2010

Hey Ukraine,

When is your warranty about to expire? You could do the upgrade then...and not be worried out the dealer denying claims.

Would adding that pully give you a more pronounced supercharge whine?

Ukraine Range

· #8 · Feb 12, 2010

PJPR01 said:
Hey Ukraine,

When is your warranty about to expire? You could do the upgrade then...and not be worried out the dealer denying claims.

Would adding that pully give you a more pronounced supercharge whine?

Warranty is up Dec '10 or 9k more miles. I would be willing to do it, but I need a reputable tuner in my area (MA). As I said, I have no probs putting the pulley on but it's tweaking the a/f and timing that I'm not overly confident in because I don't know anything about the ECU of the RRS, but then again how different could it be? Then on the other hand all I need is for codes to be thrown left and right as soon as I smooth that a/f out or bump the timing. I'd love to do the Overfinch kit, but I think they want an outrageous amount of money plus my liver. Thing is, I could probably put a slightly smaller pulley on without a tune, but then we're only talking 15-20 hp or so, what's the point of that?

The smaller pulley will only change the pitch of the whine a little bit, won't do much for volume. It's the open air element that will really wake that thing up, I've just not found any for our app (Airaid, K&N, etc).

By the way, anyone know the size of the stock pulley and redline? I'm guessing about 3.5" and 6k respectively but that's just an educated guess. Why the F is there no indication on the tach and further why is there no boost gauge??? Yes I could remove the plastic cover and measure but its been 30 degrees here forever and I'm all set.

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avos

· #9 · Feb 12, 2010

My comment for easy tweak was meant for this 5.0 engine, as here Land Rover uses a different supercharger called a TVS from Eaton.

This one is getting closer to a twin-screw performance (closer, not equal), and is way better at higher pressures then the older Eaton model. Where the M112 is already at its maximum efficiency around 11.6 psi on these 4.2 engines, the TVS can go further (think 15 psi or so) without losing too much efficiency and putting more stress on the engine like the old M112.

Changing pulleys on the M112 Eaton isn't bringing that much on these 4.2 engines, have done so myself, have experience from others.

Just go ahead I would say, the upper pulley is about 2.9", you could go to 2.5" but then you need to modify the snout, and no these are not the same pulleys from other brands, but any machine shop can make them easy. You will find them also on Ebay just look for the jaguar 4.2 engines (they are the same!). Engine pulley is about 6.2". Would suggest you investigate the power/efficiency graphs on Eaton’s site for the M112, and then you will see that from 12000 rpm at higher pressures the power requirement to turn the bl...y thing is going up rapidly, diminishing the results the further you go.

Good luck, and do some good before and after dynos.

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Ukraine Range

· #10 · Feb 12, 2010

avos said:
My comment for easy tweak was meant for this 5.0 engine, as here Land Rover uses a different supercharger called a TVS from Eaton.

This one is getting closer to a twin-screw performance (closer, not equal), and is way better at higher pressures then the older Eaton model. Where the M112 is already at its maximum efficiency around 11.6 psi on these 4.2 engines, the TVS can go further (think 15 psi or so) without losing too much efficiency and putting more stress on the engine like the old M112.

Changing pulleys on the M112 Eaton isn't bringing that much on these 4.2 engines, have done so myself, have experience from others.

Just go ahead I would say, the upper pulley is about 2.9", you could go to 2.5" but then you need to modify the snout, and no these are not the same pulleys from other brands, but any machine shop can make them easy. You will find them also on Ebay just look for the jaguar 4.2 engines (they are the same!). Engine pulley is about 6.2". Would suggest you investigate the power/efficiency graphs on Eaton’s site for the M112, and then you will see that from 12000 rpm at higher pressures the power requirement to turn the bl...y thing is going up rapidly, diminishing the results the further you go.

Good luck, and do some good before and after dynos.

Max efficiency @ 11.6 perhaps, but at it's capacity for making good power? No way. I'd say its got a good 25% left of good gains in it (with regard to blower rpm), with a good tune and smaller pulley. I'm not debating that the power doesn't drop off after 11.6, but it's very slight up until about 14 or 15 lbs. At that point is when gains really start dropping off and other alternatives should be considered (namely a bigger blower).

Is the TVS just a bigger capacity blower? The M112 is 1.6L if I recall so perhaps these are 1.8 L or 2.0L?

avos

· #11 · Feb 12, 2010

Don't take my word then, please go ahead and just do it, think I have given you already something to go on :thumb:

Will save you a search with google:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsS ... /index.htm

Looking forward to your before dyno, is a good base to start I would say, then you can also measure what boost you have now. Winter time gives excellent boost by the way :thumb:

Ukraine Range

· #12 · Feb 12, 2010

avos said:
Don't take my word then, please go ahead and just do it, think I have given you already something to go on :thumb:

Will save you a search with google:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsS ... /index.htm

Looking forward to your before dyno, is a good base to start I would say, then you can also measure what boost you have now. Winter time gives excellent boost by the way :thumb:

What kind of blower do you have on your XKR?

avos

· #13 · Feb 12, 2010

Kenne Bell 2.6H

Ukraine Range

· #14 · Feb 13, 2010

avos said:
Kenne Bell 2.6H

Nice, that's a big blower - had no idea they had an app for a Jag, or did you do some work with the dremel to your intake manifold?

Got any vids to share?

avos

· #15 · Feb 13, 2010

Nothing wrong with a dremel, but there is a tad more to it then just that.

I have designed my own kit, all 3D CAD drawings and CNC'd parts, have no video, but here is my latest dyno result showing rwhp:

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Ukraine Range

· #16 · Feb 13, 2010

Well we're getting off topic from the original post but what the hell...Tasty dyno sheet! Don't you just love the torque curve of a twin screw? Assuming that a/f is 11.5 or so, sounds like you know what you're doing...either way, nice numbers, though your sig says 600 hp but if that's crank you're more like 650-675 based on your numbers in the curve assuming 15% right? I don't get too hung up on dyno #'s but you might be underestimating yourself!!

I have more questions to ask but I won't pepper you with (all) of them now - how's yer rearend holding up and you break anything yet like half shafts? Yes I spent A LOT of time with the 03-04 Terminators.

avos

· #17 · Feb 13, 2010

Indeed a tad of topic, but it was about engines and performance :thumb:

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