i went through the same thing when i started my hunt - dealers were quoting msrp with a little reduction - in hundreds, maybe 1K - i hired a broker who found me one for 3500 below msrp (minus his fee) by expanding the search - then a local dealer beat that to make a sale on an in-stock vehicle. my understanding is that the deal i got is pretty rare at the moment - especially here in the bay area. they definitely wanted to move a car and i was in the right place at the right time and pushed pretty hard. plus i let them get a good deal on my trade in cause i wanted to get rid of it and didn't feel like selling privately. in a normal market it's not unreasonable to expect those deals or better - but inventory is still very low and dealers are moving them pretty well. to be expected the first year of a new range rover engine. the market will obviously soften soon, so if you want a better deal, wait or shop as many dealers as you can or hire a broker. fyi - there is a $1,500 financing incentive that the dealer won't tell you about, but will give you if you finance any part of your purchase, and if you're coming off a lease, there is another $3,500 available - again the dealer won't advertise these, but they are out there and i'm pretty sure it's why i was able to get the deal i got, even though i wasn't coming off a lease. but the dealers have those numbers factored in their margins. check out edmunds for the latest incentives, i think the current ones expire 01/06/10, but there'll be new and better ones i'm sure.if you're willing to take delivery of an in-stock car and don't care about color or options you will do better. if you want a specific color and specific options then the dealer will have to wait for an inbound unit or make a trade and you will have a lot less leverage. i'd say find the one you want - tell the dealer you will give him 5K below msrp and see what happens. that'll get you near your 2K over invoice. the worst that can happen is they'll say no and you'll move on...