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Discussion Starter #1
I have a question regarding the brakes on a 2007 Range Rover HSE Supercharged. I did a brake job over a month ago and changed the rear pads which were easy, the fronts are easy as well if you know Brembo brakes but instead of pulling the pins out I split the calipers and did it that way. I made sure that the seals were in place when I put them back together and bled them so I had the brakes working perfectly. Long story short I was on the highway the other day and all of a sudden the ABS light, Transmission fault and Suspension lowering came on and then the truck starting lowering and the ABS locked up all 4 brakes, I was doing about 60 and got off the exit. Had the car towed to Range Rover and they are basically telling me because I split the rotors this is not a warranty issue and I have to shell out $4500 for 4 new calipers, 4 new rotors, pads and a master cylinder. UGGGHHH!

When the car went to Range Rover it had brakes and a pedal and the resevoir was full of brake fluid. I am trying to fight this but was wondering what anyone else thought since I did the brake job over a month ago and had zero issues. I feel like they are using me as an excuse and just taking the easy way out.

Any thought I would appreciate it.

Thanks
 

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I know nothing about you or your mechanical aptitude. I imagine that the dealership service department knows the vehicle & brakes well. They also have the advantage of having your handywork right before them to evaluate. Without that knowledge & evidence, no one here can make a definitive determination of your situation/question.
On the other hand, If you are familiar with LRNA and/or this forum, you may know that the dealership service departments may go above & beyond the minimum required to effect a repair. Some would say that I'm understating this maybe just a tad.
If you are qualified to replace your brakes, I'd suggest you ask them to show you why each component needs replacement. If they want you to pay for it out of your pocket sans warranty claim, you may want them to prove their prognosis. Otherwise, repair it yourself.
And if the brakes "locked up", how did you get it off of the highway, or anywhere? :think:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I hear yah, I have done 100's of break jobs, I can rebuild motors etc. I have never done brakes on a Range Rover or Brembo's for that matter. I am not a mechanic but can pretty much fix anything. When I say that the brkaes locked up they didn't fully lock up but I had to accelerate hard just to pull of to the side of the road. The dealership assumes since I split the calipers that is what caused the problem, and what can I say. I feel like I have no leg to stand on. The only way they will warranty the brakes again is to replace all of these parts even though they told me the calipers work fine but everything got super hot. The paint bubbled on the backing plates. I agree that the pads are shot as well as the rotors but they are replacing the lines and master cylinder to make sure. I am curious if there is any argument I can make to try and prove that splitting the brembo front calipers would not cause this. In other words I was hoping there was possibly a mechanic on the board who might have some thoughts.
 

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Ouch! With that additional detail, it is a hard argument to win. I can see their point that with the system overheating enough to bubble the paint on the pads, there is no real guarantee that other parts of the brake system aren't damaged. Even a brake specialist would have to evaluate each part. But the master cylinder? That's a stretch.
 

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I would assume that even if they were damaged, you could rebuild them, just like normal calipers. Nowadays, LR Techs are just parts swappers, they are not interested in repairing or fixing things.

Why don't you call Brembo and talk to them about what you did and what happened. Use that info and the info from the dealer to figure out the best option.
 

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Donzi26zx said:
.......
The dealership assumes since I split the calipers that is what caused the problem, ......
I'm intrigued by their assumption. It sounds a very unlikely cause. Can you get them to explain exactly why splitting the front calipers would cause all 4 brakes to lock on simultaneously.

Imperfect reassembly could possibly cause a fluid leak but you say the reservoir was full so we can rule that out. The other possibility is a slight misalignment of the caliper halves. But how could this cause the whole system to lock over a month later, maybe one of the fronts but surely not the whole system simultaneously?

You don't say whether you were braking when the dash lights came on but to me your post reads like you were simply cruising along and the brakes applied themselves? The dealer can obtain this information from your vehicle. The following is from the owners manual.

DATA RECORDING
Service data recorders in your vehicle are capable of collecting and storing diagnostic information about your vehicle. This potentially includes information about the performance or status of various systems and modules in the vehicle such as engine, throttle, steering or brakes.
In order to properly diagnose and service your vehicle, Land Rover or other service and repair facilities may access vehicle diagnostic information through a direct connection to your vehicle.

Event data recorders are capable of collecting and storing data during a crash or near-crash event. The recorded information may assist in the investigation of such an event. The modules may record information about both the vehicle and the occupants, potentially including information such as:
• How various systems in your vehicle were operating.
• Whether or not the driver and passenger seat belts were buckled.
• How far, if at all, the driver was depressing the accelerator and/or the brake pedal.
• How fast the vehicle was travelling.
• Where the driver was positioning the steering wheel.



IMHO a far more likely possibility is an electrical failure of the Emergency Brake Assist (EBA)function whereby continuous and maximum braking has been applied for some reason. I'd be pursuing this as the cause. Description from RAVE below.

Emergency Brake Assist (EBA)
The EBA is designed to enhance the braking control of the DSC for the driver of the vehicle. The EBA includes two
functions that are programmed into the control electronics of the ABS ECU with no additional hardware changes.
The first EBA function is designed to provide the maximum braking force available during rapid (panic) braking
situations. The ABS control module looks at the inputs from the brake pedal switch and the signal from the brake
pressure sensor on the master cylinder. The criteria for activation of EBA is the speed at which brake pressure builds
up with the brake pedal depressed. The total criteria required for EBA activation includes:
l Brake switch ON
l Brake pressure build up >threshold value
l Vehicle road speed >5mph (8 km/h)
l Vehicle not in reverse
l Not all wheels in ABS operation.
If the threshold for EBA activation is achieved, the ABS control module will activate a pressure build up regulation
phase through the hydraulic unit. The pressure at all wheels is increased up to the ABS operation point. This occurs
even if the driver does not achieve the ABS operation point with the pedal.
The front and rear axle brakes are controlled individually. ABS operation will continue until the driver releases the
pedal and the pressure in the master cylinder drops below the threshold value stored in the ABS ECU.
The second EBA function is also designed to enhance a driver initiated braking procedure. The EBA will build up the
pressure in the rear brake circuit when the front brakes are already in an ABS regulation cycle. The additional braking
pressure at the rear wheels will shorten the stopping distance. The following criteria must be met before the ABS
control module will activate EBA:
l Both front wheel brakes in ABS operation
l Vehicle speed >5mph (8km/h)
l Vehicle not in reverse
l EBA and pressure sensor initialisation test OK
l Rear wheels not in ABS operation.
EBA sensitivity can be adjusted using TestBook/T4. There are three sensitivity settings, default is the most sensitive.


I suspect that the dealer has not pinpointed the real cause and is suggesting that apart from the overheated components, the master cylinder needs to be replaced because that is more likely where the fault originated.

Let us know how you go.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well , here is how it went, I picked up the car and paid $4500 for the brake job, wow is all I can say! I don't think I have a leg to stand on and it seemed they replaced every part just to cover there asses. I was breaking a little since there was traffic but I don't remember if I was braking at the time or not. The mentioned in there notes that they are assuming that splitting the calipers was what caused the issue but couldn't be sure. Right there sounds like they have no idea but are just going to blame me. Come on a month and chage later all four wheels are going to lock......I doubt it! My one question now is what are the calipers worth, I have all 4 and the Brembos have to be worth some decent money even if they need to rebuilt? I have the master cylinder and rear calipers as well. Any thoughts? I would like to try and re-coop some money of possible.

Thanks for all the responses.
 
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