[MSGGrunt]

I'm considering upgrading from my current 2002 P38 to a 2007/08 Full Size RR and am wondering if the extra cost of the Supercharged edition is really worth it? If I seek out a normal HSE version I would definitely look for one with the luxury package as that has some of the options I would want. I'm not all that concerned with the extra power of the SC version as going from the P38 to a HSE L322 will be a big increase in power by itself, though extra power isn't a bad thing if it doesn't come at the cost of a shortened engine lifespan. And besides the RR, is in my opinion, a truck and not expected to post zero to 100 times alongside a Ford GT40 or corner like a BMW M3. My main questions are long-term maintenance and reliability on a SC model. How is the reliability of the SC itself, ie seals, bearings, cooling, etc... How does the SC effect the engine itself? I assume the boost level isn't high enough to cause a reduced engine life? I heard on here that the Brembo brakes on the SC version were a more expensive maintenance item, but a quick internet search shows that at least the pads are no more expensive and calipers can be rebuilt vs replaced fairly reasonably. Are the struts different between the two and given that these should be considered a wear item are the SC ones more costly?

If the HSE and SC are equally reliable and equal in maintenance costs then I guess it's just a matter of driving each one and determining for myself if the extra cost of having extra HP, all the options of the HSE's luxury package in the SC model and the firmer suspension are worth the extra couple of thousand dollars.

Thanks for all your opinions

 

[DougC]

Absolutely drive them both. I didn't drive a normally aspirated RR when I was looking-I jumped right into a 2007 SC. I asked the same question about engine life on the HSE v. the SC when I started looking. My mechanic has 30 plus years with LRs and he said he never had seen a difference in the engine life between the two. You are right that the brake pads are a bit more costly, but, I haven't had any issues from the supercharger at all. I have put over 60k miles on the truck in just over 3 years. In that time, I have changed the oil religiously (every 5k miles using Mobil 1), replaced both front air bags, replaced the brake pads and rotors once (time to change them again), and I replaced a front O2 sensor. Oh, I also replaced the tires once with the stock size and again with larger tires. I think I wouldn't be happy with the truck still after the increase in tire size IF I had the HSE v. the SC.

Back ground information: I have had a Toyota Pickup and 4 runner, a Jeep Cherokee and three wranglers, a Disco 1, and (just before the RRSC) a Ford F250 Crewcab 4x4. I've also had a few cars mixed in...the Range Rover Supercharged has been the best vehicle I have owned...I'm sure I just cursed myself!

 

[MSGGrunt]

You bring up a good point about going with larger tires as this would ultimately be in my future as well. My P38 is riding on 32" tires and I would end up "upsizing" the newer RR, so a SC model with its extra power when considering that may be the deciding factor. And then I get all the "extras" of the HSE luxury package as standard equipment on the SC model.

 

[RoverGuy7]

Personally, I think the SC AJV8 is built better then the NA AJV8, but both are very reliable. The SC engine has certain provisions that are built into the block that will allow the engine to run cooler, and last longer as a result. Maintenance cost of the engine are not much different between the two. Fully agree with 5k oil changes, and a good quality synthetic.

The other components are different, and tend to be more costly. As you've seen the brakes and tires can be found priced similar to HSE parts. The front struts are different, and I have not done that much research, aside from a couple of phone calls to suppliers(but none to manufacturers) and have not found a rebuilt replacement for the SC.

Drive both, they are both nice trucks, and even the NA AJV8 has good, usable power. Personally though, I prefer the SC engines.

 

[DougC]

RoverGuy7-that post makes me feel GREAT about my choice in the 2007 RRSC!

 

[brewmaster]

If you can get a good deal on the Supercharged FFRR definitely go for it as long as you are not a die hard off-roader. When Land Rover designed the the Supercharged version they replaced the standard L322 front and rear air struts with a "tuned" version that effectively reduces the front wheel travel by 3.25 inches and the rear wheel travel by 2 inches. Also, the exhaust tips reduce the approach and departure angles when off-roading. I personally would not want to ding up my chrome exhaust tips on slick rock. Basically if you are a country club type of guy who will rarely take the truck off-road this should not be a concern (the supercharged version handles better), however, a FFRR HSE will perform better off road.

If you need to replace the airbags/struts on the Supercharged you will need to buy a slightly more expensive strut/airbag system that is slightly modified. According to Arnott Industries, you simply can't fit a HSE airbag onto a supercharged strut due to design limitations. Last time I checked the Supercharged specific reconstructed struts were only $30 more expensive but harder to find.

In terms of reliability, the 4.2L V8-SC Jag engine wins hands down. With routine maintenance and frequent fuel changes this engine will run far into the 200k mile range (according to Jag XJ owners). One thing to consider is that at around 100k miles the serpentine belt powering the supercharger needs to be changed. I personally would change the oil at 5k miles instead of the recommended 7.5k even if I ran full synthetic oil.

Both trucks are matted with the "ZF6HP26" transmission which is decent but certainly not bombproof. Although LRNA recommends changing the automatic transmission fluid and filter every 150k miles I certainly would not go past 50k miles (ZF even stated that a transmission fluid change should be performed before 80k miles). LRNA apparently wants more profit by reconstructing/replacing blown out transmissions instead of simply reducing the ATF change frequency. I know for a fact that the HSE uses the basic ZF6HP26 transmission. However, I am unsure if the Supercharged uses the ZF6HP26 or the upgraded ZF6HP26X transmission used by the BMW 4.8is X5. The basic ZF6HP26 has a relatively inexpensive combined pan/filter ($80 on amazon.com!) but the ZF6HP26X has a pan and separate filter which may be much harder to find online. Once again I am not completely sure if the Supercharged actually uses the ZF6HP26X or the standard ZF6HP26 transmission. The recommended ZF "Lifeguard 6" AT fluid is extremely expensive ($20/L), however, I recently was talking to a Jag owner who claimed that the Ford Mercon SP oil had the same fluid properties as the Lifeguard 6 ATF and was actually developed by ford to use in their relabeled ZF6HP26 transmission. I am sure if you are trying to save some dollars, Mercon SP ($6/L) will perform similarly to Lifeguard 6.

In terms of brake maintenance and cost both are actually equal. The Brembo has proved to be an incredibly reliable caliper and quality pads are readily available online. The increase in braking power is definitely reassuring and maintenance is very straight forward. One thing to note is that in late 2006 LRNA used "dull gray" Brembo brake calipers instead of the traditional black coated Brembo calipers that the early 2006 RRSC is equipped with. The lack of a finish coat on these calipers is unattractive in my opinion and could potentially cause rusting problems if you plan on keeping the vehicle long term.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[RRToadHall]

When Land Rover designed the the Supercharged version they replaced the standard L322 front and rear air struts with a "tuned" version that effectively reduces the front wheel travel by 3.25 inches and the rear wheel travel by 2 inches. Also, the exhaust tips reduce the approach and departure angles when off-roading. I personally would not want to ding up my chrome exhaust tips on slick rock. Basically if you are a country club type of guy who will rarely take the truck off-road this should not be a concern (the supercharged version handles better), however, a FFRR HSE will perform better off road.

If you need to replace the airbags/struts on the Supercharged you will need to buy a slightly more expensive strut/airbag system that is slightly modified. According to Arnott Industries, you simply can't fit a HSE airbag onto a supercharged strut due to design limitations. Last time I checked the Supercharged specific reconstructed struts were only $30 more expensive but harder to find.

Really? :shock:

How come the same wading depth and ride heights are listed for both HSE and SC? So how come the same 032563 and 032570 struts are listed in MicroCat as well as at the dealer for 2007-2010 HSE AND 2006-2010 SC? How come I jsut replaced right strut on a buddy's 08 SC with an HSE/SC 032570? Well how come is because he blasted the crap out of it off roading when a jagged rock ripped apart his bellows and inner fender. :mrgreen:

I would question some of your info based strictly on personal experience and documented specs.

 

[RoverGuy7]

I am not aware of a difference in height or articulation, however, I never looked into it. After further checking, it seems that only the 06 had a different front strut between SC and NA applications. Which even on the 06, the NA version of the strut will fit fine, however the ride is slightly different when a SC truck is fitted with NA struts, enough to be noticed.

 

[RRToadHall]

Now that makes more sense. So following the part numbers the 2006 SC strut was adopted across the board in 2007.

 

[Cliff]

Dave is right, its more of a "JLR/Ford Suspension" vs the BMW tuned suspension than an SC vs HSE suspension it was just introduced first on the 2006 SC then carried over to all NAS FF in 07. You do lose about 2" of articulation which is pretty useful and can mean the difference between needing a locker and not rock crawling, it does drive really well though on road as a payoff. I was always under the impression that most of the change was due to stiffer anti roll bars but I'm not 100% on that. However, all 2007+ Superchargers in NAS have Rear diff locks standard so I feel the SC is on paper better offroad than the HSE. Those rear lockers really come in handy in low traction scenarios.

 

[RoverGuy7]

They don't list a articulation of height differences between the two models, but that is sometimes the fun of LR's published information, and for 07+ the sway bars are the same P/N.

But still, I think most of us agree that the maintenance costs between the two are not that great, and again, I personally prefer the SC engine in terms of long term reliability.

 

[MSGGrunt]

Well, as much as I think I'd like to put bigger tires on a take the truck off-road, in reality the most adverse conditions the truck would see would be a New England snow storm so any difference in suspension travel would not be a factor. The on road priority was driven home by an all highway 400 mile trip today from Massachusetts to DC. I remember my younger days when I owned a turbo charged, 6" lifted, 38" tired 80 Series Landcruiser and though the truck made a great off-roader, I'm not at that point in my life any more. The newer RR are really a visual statement and its not like a P38 isn't inexpensive maintenance wise. I would like more info on the difference between HSE and SC struts if there is a difference. Logic would lend one to believe a difference must exist if the ride is different between the two models. Good to hear that Jag (Ford) has had good reliability with the SC 4.2. I'm thinking the added luxury and extra HP and a fancy Supercharged badge L322 may be in my future. I'll just have to read up on all the maintenance quirks of the SC model.

 

[Mirage]

There is NO difference strut wise, they only reason is because they got switched over in 06, so the 06SC were using the 07+ versions which is standard in both HSE/SC trims, and the 06 were still using the old 03/05 BMW versions. The SC I believe just has a bigger roll bar which on paper is suppose to flatten it out 15% more ( or something like that ) over the standard HSE. I had a 05 HSE before and currently a 06 SC and well ... they both roll like fat pigs around a corner, the SC just slightly less.

 

[Cliff]

I agree, I think the only difference in scheduled maintenance iirc is rear diff and that should be changed sooner than that across the board. I don't know how the 5L supercharged compares to the 4.2L supercharged.

 

[linuxfreakus]

I have to say, I have been 100% happy with my '04 but I keep seeing these '07+ SC trucks showing up at dealers around me, and it is tempting. If nothing else because it won't have the same annoying PCV system design. There was one that just sold which was listed at only $22k with 73k miles, and another listed for $26.5k with 65k miles on it (actual sale price certainly lower I'm sure if you play cards right). I would go with the SC myself because it will probably have slightly better resale value if you eventually sell it again later.

I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger since I know my '04 inside-out and have done all the maintenance. Coming from a P38 as you are though, I wouldn't hesitate. It will be a huge upgrade.

 

[MSGGrunt]

Struts don't seem to be all that unreasonable. My P38 has been converted to coils, but would like to keep the new Rover on bags as long as it doesn't get cost prohibitive. I know better than let any oil change go longer than 5000 miles. The transmission would get regular fluid and filter changes as well. Would have to do a bit more research on what fluid could be used besides the very expensive fluid from the dealer. $20,000 for a 2007 SC sounds like a great price. I know these are great trucks, but the old school in me wishes for a true transfer case with high/low and a body on frame design, though I hear that the unibody is very strong. Hopefully Rover wouldn't use that design just to save on build costs.

 

[Marlon]

Owned both of them: HSE has noticeably MORE low-end Tq. HOWever, the HSE will NOT accelerate in mid-range RPM band like an SC - nope. Gas milage is about 1 mpg less on the SC - go figure. Interior trim is slightly different - don't think you can find an SC WITHOUT the dorky headrest TV Screens in the back. Exterior trim (Tail lights, side grills, front grill) different - I like the SC Treatment there. The SC has large dia wheels - good for handling, but I like the ride better on the HSE rolling stock. SO that means tires are $$$ for the blown truck. Struts are the SAME. Brakes on the HSE feel fine - the Brembos are overrated to me - kind of 'so what'? SC uses dinosauer oil (!) HSE uses Synthetic - go figure. However getting your oil changed at Jiffy Lube is embarrassingly and hilariously - CHEAP:^)

MKIII critical points: A/C fan and outlets are a little weak (IN my mind) for a premium vehicle (Very WEAK). Heat is good in winter. Engine is noisy - yeah, I know- WAhhhhh. Mine has the heated windscreen - yay! Love that feature on RANge Rovers. Here's a ridiculous feature: you can't flip the wipers straight out when ice is expected overnight!!! YEs - you can on the awesome P38. ALSO: YOU can 't source front wipers off the shelf at AUTOZONE:^( They are the Disco type - however a resourceful autozone guy can ORDER them for you. I balked and bought thru my hookup at the Dealer instead. MKIII doors and tailgate locks all unlock in sequence - NOT THe crisp ALL AT ONCE with ONE nice C L I C K you are used to on the awesome P38. IF you hit the windows up or down - they all are out of sequence - not like the awesome P38 - where they ALL run together with spit and polish like the US Marines drilling on 8th and I!!! NO ready access storage space in the cockpit unless you go into the CHEAP cubby box.

NOw here's a biggie that NONE of you have noticed: The seats in the MK III Suck. AND: They are dimensionally SMALLER than the awesome P38 by 1" all the way around. YES - they are designed for a skinny, 130LB housewife's hiney. That really bugs me + the leather feels thin and cheep. Not thick and substantial like the - - - --- yes, you got it: awesome and well made: P38. IT's almost like the truck is torn between whether or not it is a van, SUV, station wagon or something in between. OH- the MKIII DOes not reduce ride height at highway speeds?!!? I HATE The annoying B E E E E E E E E E E PPPPP you get when loading the cargo hold with the engine running - you can't disable that darn backup warning system unless you are sitting in the truck. Maybe the dealer can disable it thru the BECM?

Plus side: it gets better milage and has more git-ee-up than the awesome, reliable and well made - P38. P38 REliable (?) - well, if you factor out the air suspension, crappy fuze block sitting right next to the coolant reservoir, horrible gas milage and weak power. MKIII has a FULL SIze spare - yippee (Had to use that when I found out one of my rims had a ding in it recently!) MK III Has much more space in the rear end (Sounds funny?) MKIII IS really cool to chauffer around a world famous Glock Team member in the back where she has all sorts of controls and cool stuff to play with on long trips!

I've owned a bunch of them (+ a Classic SWB) for over 600,000 miles. NOT sure I'm going to be able to stand the MKIII that long:^) But it SURE is purdy...
Happy to discuss: 703-309-4967

 

[Mirage]

Owned both of them: HSE has noticeably MORE low-end Tq. HOWever, the HSE will NOT accelerate in mid-range RPM band like an SC - nope. Gas milage is about 1 mpg less on the SC - go figure. Interior trim is slightly different - don't think you can find an SC WITHOUT the dorky headrest TV Screens in the back. Exterior trim (Tail lights, side grills, front grill) different - I like the SC Treatment there. The SC has large dia wheels - good for handling, but I like the ride better on the HSE rolling stock. SO that means tires are $$$ for the blown truck. Struts are the SAME. Brakes on the HSE feel fine - the Brembos are overrated to me - kind of 'so what'? SC uses dinosauer oil (!) HSE uses Synthetic - go figure. However getting your oil changed at Jiffy Lube is embarrassingly and hilariously - CHEAP:^)

MKIII critical points: A/C fan and outlets are a little weak (IN my mind) for a premium vehicle (Very WEAK). Heat is good in winter. Engine is noisy - yeah, I know- WAhhhhh. Mine has the heated windscreen - yay! Love that feature on RANge Rovers. Here's a ridiculous feature: you can't flip the wipers straight out when ice is expected overnight!!! YEs - you can on the awesome P38. ALSO: YOU can 't source front wipers off the shelf at AUTOZONE:^( They are the Disco type - however a resourceful autozone guy can ORDER them for you. I balked and bought thru my hookup at the Dealer instead. MKIII doors and tailgate locks all unlock in sequence - NOT THe crisp ALL AT ONCE with ONE nice C L I C K you are used to on the awesome P38. IF you hit the windows up or down - they all are out of sequence - not like the awesome P38 - where they ALL run together with spit and polish like the US Marines drilling on 8th and I!!! NO ready access storage space in the cockpit unless you go into the CHEAP cubby box.

NOw here's a biggie that NONE of you have noticed: The seats in the MK III Suck. AND: They are dimensionally SMALLER than the awesome P38 by 1" all the way around. YES - they are designed for a skinny, 130LB housewife's hiney. That really bugs me + the leather feels thin and cheep. Not thick and substantial like the - - - --- yes, you got it: awesome and well made: P38. IT's almost like the truck is torn between whether or not it is a van, SUV, station wagon or something in between. OH- the MKIII DOes not reduce ride height at highway speeds?!!? I HATE The annoying B E E E E E E E E E E PPPPP you get when loading the cargo hold with the engine running - you can't disable that darn backup warning system unless you are sitting in the truck. Maybe the dealer can disable it thru the BECM?

Plus side: it gets better milage and has more git-ee-up than the awesome, reliable and well made - P38. P38 REliable (?) - well, if you factor out the air suspension, crappy fuze block sitting right next to the coolant reservoir, horrible gas milage and weak power. MKIII has a FULL SIze spare - yippee (Had to use that when I found out one of my rims had a ding in it recently!) MK III Has much more space in the rear end (Sounds funny?) MKIII IS really cool to chauffer around a world famous Glock Team member in the back where she has all sorts of controls and cool stuff to play with on long trips!

I've owned a bunch of them (+ a Classic SWB) for over 600,000 miles. NOT sure I'm going to be able to stand the MKIII that long:^) But it SURE is purdy...
Happy to discuss: 703-309-4967

I also noticed that the seats in the mark III were a joke, you are correct when they were made for a 130 lbs skinny woman, they feel like they're squezzing my Butt. the p38 were much wider and perfect size for men, but the l322 is questionable.

 

[brad s1]

Owned both of them: HSE has noticeably MORE low-end Tq. HOWever, the HSE will NOT accelerate in mid-range RPM band like an SC - nope. Gas milage is about 1 mpg less on the SC - go figure. Interior trim is slightly different - don't think you can find an SC WITHOUT the dorky headrest TV Screens in the back. Exterior trim (Tail lights, side grills, front grill) different - I like the SC Treatment there. The SC has large dia wheels - good for handling, but I like the ride better on the HSE rolling stock. SO that means tires are $$$ for the blown truck. Struts are the SAME. Brakes on the HSE feel fine - the Brembos are overrated to me - kind of 'so what'? SC uses dinosauer oil (!) HSE uses Synthetic - go figure. However getting your oil changed at Jiffy Lube is embarrassingly and hilariously - CHEAP:^)

MKIII critical points: A/C fan and outlets are a little weak (IN my mind) for a premium vehicle (Very WEAK). Heat is good in winter. Engine is noisy - yeah, I know- WAhhhhh. Mine has the heated windscreen - yay! Love that feature on RANge Rovers. Here's a ridiculous feature: you can't flip the wipers straight out when ice is expected overnight!!! YEs - you can on the awesome P38. ALSO: YOU can 't source front wipers off the shelf at AUTOZONE:^( They are the Disco type - however a resourceful autozone guy can ORDER them for you. I balked and bought thru my hookup at the Dealer instead. MKIII doors and tailgate locks all unlock in sequence - NOT THe crisp ALL AT ONCE with ONE nice C L I C K you are used to on the awesome P38. IF you hit the windows up or down - they all are out of sequence - not like the awesome P38 - where they ALL run together with spit and polish like the US Marines drilling on 8th and I!!! NO ready access storage space in the cockpit unless you go into the CHEAP cubby box.

NOw here's a biggie that NONE of you have noticed: The seats in the MK III Suck. AND: They are dimensionally SMALLER than the awesome P38 by 1" all the way around. YES - they are designed for a skinny, 130LB housewife's hiney. That really bugs me + the leather feels thin and cheep. Not thick and substantial like the - - - --- yes, you got it: awesome and well made: P38. IT's almost like the truck is torn between whether or not it is a van, SUV, station wagon or something in between. OH- the MKIII DOes not reduce ride height at highway speeds?!!? I HATE The annoying B E E E E E E E E E E PPPPP you get when loading the cargo hold with the engine running - you can't disable that darn backup warning system unless you are sitting in the truck. Maybe the dealer can disable it thru the BECM?

Plus side: it gets better milage and has more git-ee-up than the awesome, reliable and well made - P38. P38 REliable (?) - well, if you factor out the air suspension, crappy fuze block sitting right next to the coolant reservoir, horrible gas milage and weak power. MKIII has a FULL SIze spare - yippee (Had to use that when I found out one of my rims had a ding in it recently!) MK III Has much more space in the rear end (Sounds funny?) MKIII IS really cool to chauffer around a world famous Glock Team member in the back where she has all sorts of controls and cool stuff to play with on long trips!

I've owned a bunch of them (+ a Classic SWB) for over 600,000 miles. NOT sure I'm going to be able to stand the MKIII that long:^) But it SURE is purdy...
Happy to discuss: 703-309-4967

The supercharged doesn't appear to have as much low end torque compared to the HSE because of the supercharged's torque management system. It pulls a lot so you can't damage the car under heavy acceleration... It does make more low end torque when you need it, just not when you hammer it from a red light... It is intentionally lagged, if you're going up a dune or something, you'll notice the supercharged has WAY more torque down low, it only makes sense since it's supercharged... If you look at any roots blown v8, you get max torque almost immediately unless you have some computer interviening.

Also 20" tires (supercharged) actually cost less than 19" tires (HSE)... There are ALOT more people running 20's than there are 19's. I also don't see how the brembos are over rated, they're bigger more powerful brakes... Sort of a fitting when you consider the thing is supercharged, it accelerates faster, it stops faster. Also you can switch to synthetic oil...

 

[DougC]

Yeah- synthetic Mobil 1 in the supercharged is great. I did an experiment using Valvoline's synthetic and noticed a drop in 2 mpg drop in mileage driving the same daily routes when compared to Mobile 1. The problem (I think) is that the viscosity/grades between the two brands were different. I think the Valvoline was 5w30 and the Mobile 1 was 5w40. Anyway, synthetic oil in the RRSC is great! I'm trying to decide if I should run synthetic in the transmission, diffs and transfer case--if those fluids aren't already synthetic.

As for the seat size-how big are you guys? Seriously, I'm 6 foot and weigh 215 lbs-I fit fine! But, the seat is not nearly as big and flat as a Classic; never drove a p38.