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Discussion Starter #1
2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

So I have (2) issues/concerns with my 2006 RRS. However instead of creating two separate threads I'll post both here and hopefully get both addressed... This first issues is regarding my rear tire wear (see pic). Both rear tires had excessive wear, more so on the right rear, on the outer lip just before the wall - causes? Airbags going out? I went about 22K miles without rotating /:( :naughty: so I never paid much attention until I had to replace the brakes.

My assumption would be related to my findings during my rear brake pad/rotor replacement but want to be certain - see below:

Brake light came on after only replacing the rear pads approx. 1.5 years ago (22K miles). Initially I chalked the low mileage wear to ****ty aftermarket pads, however after taking off the wheels and actually inspecting the pads I noticed a couple things. First, the right rear tire had excessive wear on the outer portion of the tire. Initially didn't think much of it until I got the tire off. Once off the Star Bolt which holds the rotor to the axle was loose - weird??. Now, either one of two things... I didn't tighten it all the way when I replaced the pads last time:oops: - which thankfully nothing happened as a result - or it shook itself loose. Moving on, after inspecting the pads I noticed, again from the right rear, the wear was Trapezium shaped... One side was higher than the other - weirder? While the left rear pads were evenly worn. Regarding the right rear pads I can't remember which was on the inside, and which was on the outside to help you better diagnose the problem.

So my question is: could the loose bolt cause enough movement to cause excessive wear to the pad + tire, or am I looking a whole different issue? If that is the case why is the left rear showing wear also???

Right Rear:
IMG_0132.jpg


Left Rear:
IMG_0135.jpg
Second Issue;

I've been noticing that as I'm slowing for a stop sign, and just about to complete my California Roll, I slow enough before giving it gas again which throws the car into a pretty significant jerk (jolt). I can also replicate the issue by applying the brake right before coming to a complete stop and merely easing up on it ( with no gas)...

An alternative explanation would be gears slipping and the car working harder to get in/out of first.

Am I right in assuming transmission going bad or needs to be serviced?
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Did you clean and regrease the pins for the calipers?

When was your last wheel alignment?
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

By the way, you could leave that little screw out and it wouldn't make a difference. Many brakes don't have those screws. The rotor is held on by being sandwiched by the wheel. The little screw is just there to hold the rotor on while you are assembling the brakes and putting on the wheel. It's definitely not a screw that will oppose the extreme forces of braking.

If you had an air spring going out, it wouldn't cause the car to lean while driving and affect the alignment, it would cause your compressor to die by having to keep pumping it up to keep the car at the set height. If you had a sensor get out of whack, that could cause an alignment issue because the car wouldn't be level. Just measure you cars height at each corner to see if it's level.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Did you clean and regrease the pins for the calipers?

When was your last wheel alignment?
I did not clean and regrease the pins, would that really cause for uneven wear? (i feel like an idiot)

Last wheel alignment was when these tires were purchased - approx. 22K miles.

By the way, you could leave that little screw out and it wouldn't make a difference. Many brakes don't have those screws. The rotor is held on by being sandwiched by the wheel. The little screw is just there to hold the rotor on while you are assembling the brakes and putting on the wheel. It's definitely not a screw that will oppose the extreme forces of braking.

If you had an air spring going out, it wouldn't cause the car to lean while driving and affect the alignment, it would cause your compressor to die by having to keep pumping it up to keep the car at the set height. If you had a sensor get out of whack, that could cause an alignment issue because the car wouldn't be level. Just measure you cars height at each corner to see if it's level.
Good to know on both accounts. I am not noticing excessive running of the compressor or lean, however I will measure the corners as suggested to be sure.


For those reading... could my other issues regarding the "jerking" be the sway bar barrings I read alot about?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Not sure what is causing your lurch, but kind of sounds like the problem Jags have with the "lurch" in the ZF transmission:

http://www.thelurch.com/lurching_zf_transmission.htm

Is it like that?
Holy hell, you hit the nail on the head. Both Variant 1 and Variant 2 is EXACTLY what I am experiencing...

FOUND THIS: which I think is what I need...
http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/9-range-rover-sport-l320/36121-06-range-rover-sport-transmission-update-software.html

I'll have to take it to an Indy LR because I'm sure the dealer will want to rape me with no lube =/
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Did you clean and regrease the pins for the calipers?
Hey Tex, what can happen if you don't regrease the pins? I recently had my brakes done and they sqeak like mad! I'm hoping my upcoming road trip to Canada cures it. I've put about 150 miles on new rotors and pads so far. Brakes sqeak like hell after they warm up. I'm also bedding them in. Argh.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Hey Tex, what can happen if you don't regrease the pins? I recently had my brakes done and they sqeak like mad! I'm hoping my upcoming road trip to Canada cures it. I've put about 150 miles on new rotors and pads so far. Brakes sqeak like hell after they warm up. I'm also bedding them in. Argh.
The calipers won't slide properly and you will get premature and uneven brake wear like the OP.

A lot of mechanics will skip that step. My RRS had just had all new rotors and pads put on by the dealer at a high cost by the previous owner, but I changed the pads out within 1 month of getting the car so I could put on Akebono pads, and I found the pins had not been cleaned and greased. God love those short cut taking "pros!"

Under what conditions are your brakes squealing? Light pedal pressure, heavy pressure, no pressure? Any speed, or just slow speeds?

What pads did they use? OEMs? I hated the OEMs that put black dust all over everything after 1 short drive. The Akebonos are completely dust free, don't squeal, and the pedal and stopping feel is much nicer.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

The calipers won't slide properly and you will get premature and uneven brake wear like the OP.

A lot of mechanics will skip that step. My RRS had just had all new rotors and pads put on by the dealer at a high cost by the previous owner, but I changed the pads out within 1 month of getting the car so I could put on Akebono pads, and I found the pins had not been cleaned and greased. God love those short cut taking "pros!"

Under what conditions are your brakes squealing? Light pedal pressure, heavy pressure, no pressure? Any speed, or just slow speeds?

What pads did they use? OEMs? I hated the OEMs that put black dust all over everything after 1 short drive. The Akebonos are completely dust free, don't squeal, and the pedal and stopping feel is much nicer.
Hey Tex, I had he brakes done at an independent, one we have used for my wife's car for the past 10-years. I have always gotten the LR done at the dealership, because their prices have always been very competitive with my independent, but this one time, I decided to give the independent a shot with my truck. They used OME rotors and pads. I believe the pads are Textar? And btw, the dealership I used is AWESOME, they've always done amazing without greasing me.

I also noticed (even so the rotors are OEM) that the hub is painted bright silver rather than the dull flat gray. At first I was pissed, thinking they pulled a fast one, but the estimate and invoice has the part number which I looked up, and they were OEM, with photos of the hub being bright silver paint, rather than the flat gray. Did LR change that, maybe due to that flat gray looking like ass after a few months with rust and such?

The squealing happens after they warm up, under 15 mph while slowing down for stop lights. I want to blame the independent because I NEVER had his issue with the dealership, but I guess I was just lucky, because it looks like a lot of LR do this (at least from searching on the board) and it doesn't matter where/who puts on the OEM rotors and pads as long as it is done right.

But no matter, the next time, I'm going to the dealership, rather put my trust in them, even if it's only a few hundred more.

Now I'm getting convinced with what you've been sharing - the Akebonos!
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

I replaced the rears with Akebonos. I used them on my Audi religiously. Slightly less bite to them (in my Audi - this is the firs time on the RRS), however the benefit of no brake dust is well worth it in my opinion.

On a side note, I called the dealer and got some interesting news. Dealer wants to charge $159 to reflash the TCM however the SA advised against it. Citing that re-flashing could cause more harm then good. His reasoning is that parts over time wear down and if the flash was "written" and calibrated for a "new transmission" it may have an adverse effect on an older one. He says parts in the transmission wear and so if a measurement to a clutch or gear is off it may temporarily fix the problem but cause a bigger one in the near future.

Thoughts?
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

The squealing happens after they warm up, under 15 mph while slowing down for stop lights.
If it were my car, I would go through the brakes myself to make sure they were done right. I would take out the pads, re-bend the clips that hold the pads to make sure they are snug on the pads, put brake grease on the back of the pads which helps with the squealing, clean and re-grease the slide pins, put it all back together, and make sure the wheels are torqued to the right amount and in the right manner to avoid rotor warping (they almost never torque the wheels right).

It's easy work to do because you don't even have to recompress the caliper pistons and you don't have to buy any parts. Jacking up, and taking off the wheels will be the hardest part. Then you know it will be right and you will most likely fix the squeal unless the pads are just that way. Come to think of it, you might as well throw on the Akebono's while you're at it. They're only about $60 an axle.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Lift your rear wheels off the ground and manipulate the wheel for loose play. You could have bad rear hub bearings.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

I replaced the rears with Akebonos. I used them on my Audi religiously. Slightly less bite to them (in my Audi - this is the firs time on the RRS), however the benefit of no brake dust is well worth it in my opinion.

On a side note, I called the dealer and got some interesting news. Dealer wants to charge $159 to reflash the TCM however the SA advised against it. Citing that re-flashing could cause more harm then good. His reasoning is that parts over time wear down and if the flash was "written" and calibrated for a "new transmission" it may have an adverse effect on an older one. He says parts in the transmission wear and so if a measurement to a clutch or gear is off it may temporarily fix the problem but cause a bigger one in the near future.

Thoughts?
According to the GAP manual for the IIDTool, the transmission learns about the wear and adjusts for it. So I call BS on the SA. Keep in mind that most SA's are ex-sales reps that couldn't cut it in car sales, so they were moved to be an SA. Sales reps barely know where the front of the car is on anything they are selling, so I wouldn't take their personal word on how transmissions work to mean much unless they got it from a verifiable source.

Here's the section from IIDTool manual that is publicly posted on the GAP website:

Gear shifting time tends to increase as internal components of a transmission wear out. This has a
negative effect on the brake clutches. The transmission ECU will adapt to counteract the effect of wear
and improve shifting.


This routine resets the adaption statistics back to factory default. After the adaptions are cleared, the
transmission ECU will analyze shifting behaviors using sensors readings and compensate accordingly.

The adaption reset routine is necessary when one of the following components is replaced:
• Transmission oil.
• Any component inside the transmission.
• The transmission ECU.
• Prior to updating the transmission ECU firmware.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Awesome info RRS, thanks for taking the time...

I just may go ahead with the procedure given the info you just posted.
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

I replaced the rears with Akebonos. I used them on my Audi religiously. Slightly less bite to them (in my Audi - this is the firs time on the RRS), however the benefit of no brake dust is well worth it in my opinion.

On a side note, I called the dealer and got some interesting news. Dealer wants to charge $159 to reflash the TCM however the SA advised against it. Citing that re-flashing could cause more harm then good. His reasoning is that parts over time wear down and if the flash was "written" and calibrated for a "new transmission" it may have an adverse effect on an older one. He says parts in the transmission wear and so if a measurement to a clutch or gear is off it may temporarily fix the problem but cause a bigger one in the near future.

Thoughts?
This is exactly what happened to mine (2006 RRS SC) when I had the reflash. Shifted like crap for 2 days until it "relearned". This will also happen if the battery is disconnected for any length of time. The trans adaptations will be gone and it will have to relearn. I was told I needed a new trans and more than likely I have some worn parts inside but once it adapts its livable. I too have problems taking off from a rolling stop and I feel like it shifts to second way too early in normal mode. Always feel like I have to push the pedal a little too far to get it into a good accelerating gear but it's either live with it or buy a 5k transmission. I even own an auto repair shop and can change it myselft but thats still a little steep!
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

If it were my car, I would go through the brakes myself to make sure they were done right. I would take out the pads, re-bend the clips that hold the pads to make sure they are snug on the pads, put brake grease on the back of the pads which helps with the squealing, clean and re-grease the slide pins, put it all back together, and make sure the wheels are torqued to the right amount and in the right manner to avoid rotor warping (they almost never torque the wheels right).

It's easy work to do because you don't even have to recompress the caliper pistons and you don't have to buy any parts. Jacking up, and taking off the wheels will be the hardest part. Then you know it will be right and you will most likely fix the squeal unless the pads are just that way. Come to think of it, you might as well throw on the Akebono's while you're at it. They're only about $60 an axle.
Hey Tex,

So the squeaking has stopped, I guess the 2000 miles up to Canada and back I just put on the rig helped. But I have now noticed the left front wheel makes a clanking noise over sharp bumps which sounds like a loose brake pad. I'd like to do the job you've noted above, I should be able to do it, have the tools and handy touch. Is there a video though or more details about the grease? Thanks for your help!
 

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Re: 2006 RRS: (2) Issues/Concerns RE: Rear Tire Wear + (possibly) Transmission?

Hi again Tex... Okay, so I did the job on the left side, put the original/semi-new pads back in - I don't think they were seated properly. When I removed the wheel, I noticed the clips on the top and on the bottom were loose... looks like they used the old ones rather than replacing them with new ones. Anyway, I was also able to move the brake pad around, so the clips weren't seating the pads well. I removed the caliper and reajusted the clips, copper greased the top settings of the pads and reinstalled them, nice and snug. Put the caliper back on, and used locktite for the two bolts. Went on a test ride and that clanking is completely gone. I hope I did everything correctly, I didn't recompress the caliper. Anyway, next time I'm going to do the brake job myself. It was very easy.
 
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