[Galen]

I have been a long time lurker, longtime reader/follower of this particular forum as well as the resource that is rr.net. My wife's vehicle is a 2005 MKIII Adriatic Blue w/54K; she loves it as do I. Can go through hell & back. That said, my vehicle is a 2002 Toyota 4Runner. Now, don't get me wrong, I will always rather drive the Rover but I've but in maybe ~$3K into the 4Runner (not counting oil changes & tires) which, conversly, I have over 117,000 miles on it. In comparison with our Rover which is actually a CPO until 75K and/or 4/2011 but still that's quite a difference as the cost of ownership of a Rover is substancial, but I digress. It is worth it, really is. Wonderful to drive, safe as can be/like a tank & has a refined elegance that is both attractive + unique as the vehicle is able to handle tough Michigan winters, two-tracking in the middle of Canada at -13 but also deliver you to work with a grin on your face.

Our Land Rover dealer, where we live in Michigan, USA, told us that they recommend we replace the hoses; I believe the hoses are coolant (~$1,100K) + the oil separator hoses ($200). Wouldn't you know it the hoses are not covered under warranty. When I took the truck in, it was for a routine oil change, granted, it's 15K miles or once every year but times are tough here so I wonder if this is something more like very preventative routine maintenance or is this something that could be more or less 70K miles or a year or so later? That said, I wonder if this is associated in any capacity to the PCV hose issue as explained in detail here: http://rangerovers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28533 ? If so, I used the superb guide from dan_uk_1984 to at least be informed about what appears to be a rather obvious mechanical/engineering/product/material choice oversight. I took a picture of our Rover's hoses; click here if you would like to see for comparison (hose looks & feels malleable but is not leaking - that I can see, I looked): http://collectiveunconscious.org/DSC_1280.jpg

This is a pick of the engine w/the acoustic cover (I believe that is what the shell is referred to as) off: http://collectiveunconscious.org/DSC_1279.jpg Does anyone know which hoses my dealer may be referring to? I have been respectful throughout all of our interactions, however, I have yet to hear back about my inquiry as to the question I just posed from said dealer. Any ideas?

Peace

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

LOL @ $1,100 for coolant hoses, will they be having their way with your wife and youngest daughter too?

Do a search, there is tons of info on both sets of hoses, I did a writeup about the PCV hose replacement, it cost about £2.50 ($4.00?) in terms of hose and you can do it in 30 mins.

 

[Gazellio]

Being 2005 it could be the BMW or the JAG engine - which is it?

Not likely to be the PCV hoses if its the Jag but very likely if its the BMW.

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

Sorry, just re read your post and you have already read my post! I’m so used to people not actually reading the info that’s in front of them!

In the pic you posted, the two hoses with the Green writing look like the PCV hoses, however, I don’t think that green writing is standard on any LR or BMW hoses? As these feel ok as you say I imagine they are fine.

I see no reason why you couldn’t do the coolant hoses yourself, just don’t reuse the clips.

 

[Gazellio]

Being 2005 it could be the BMW or the JAG engine - which is it?

Not likely to be the PCV hoses if its the Jag but very likely if its the BMW.

Sorry I am guilty of not opening your links. I can see now that its the BMW.

The PCV hoses are part hidden so they may be holed at a point that is unseen by visual inspection.

 

[Galen]

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is a BMW engine.

Part of the issue I am having is I am unsure which hoses need to be replaced. In fact I am unsure what I am looking for; if they need to be replaced would like to do it just not an unneccesary repair. Dealer called it preventative maintenance. Yes the PVC thread is actualy saved as one of my bookmarks. Is there a step by step guide concerning which hoses with pictures? I'm only so-so handy but perhaps could do it. Really though am unsure of IF I need to worry about this at this point in the first place.... Could not changing hoses lead to blowing a gasket or valve and leave us on the side of the road as my dealer claims?

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is a BMW engine.

Part of the issue I am having is I am unsure which hoses need to be replaced. In fact I am unsure what I am looking for; if they need to be replaced would like to do it just not an unneccesary repair. Dealer called it preventative maintenance. Yes the PVC thread is actualy saved as one of my bookmarks. Is there a step by step guide concerning which hoses with pictures? I'm only so-so handy but perhaps could do it. Really though am unsure of IF I need to worry about this at this point in the first place.... Could not changing hoses lead to blowing a gasket or valve and leave us on the side of the road as my dealer claims?

The hoses in the photo with the green writing on are the PCV hoses, and like i said, they look fine.

You are correct that if your rad hoses blow and you overheat you could be in big problems. My engine - heater union pipe failed a few months ago but luckily just as i was pulling onto my drive. A new hose could fail easily due to impropper fitting, or manufacturing defect. So I'm in two minds about replacing hoses for no reason, if they look in good condition, ie not perished etc I would think hard. Also in no way get the LR dealer to do it at that price.

Dan

 

[Gazellio]

Here is the diagram Dan pointed me to earlier:

Or PDF doc here: http://www.garyelliott.co.uk/ranger/pcv.pdf

I believe its an easy job taking about 30 minutes. My LR garage charged 1 hour labour.

 

[03rangiemark]

I pre-emptively bought a set of PCV hoses to replace mine in response to an occasional "check engine soo" light & fault codes that relate to many things including cat. converter failure, fuel mixture problems & vacuum leaks. When I went to replace the hoses on my 2003 Rover, I found them to be in perfectly good shape. So the hoses are in my parts bin, at the ready for when I DO need to replace them.
The radiator hoses are a quick-disconnect design. I had my upper hose fail a few months ago on the highway. As Dan said, you do NOT want to drive more than a couple of minutes if a hose fails. Catastrophic engine failure could occur if the car actually overheats. So long as the warning indicators are taken seiously, the average engine should be fine. As long as the vehicle is safely & quickly moved to a good stopping area, it should be fine.
The hoses are pretty inexpensive for what they are; they are hose assemblies, not just individual hoses, and with the quick connect (plastic) pipe included. With mine it wasn't the hose that failed, it was the (plastic) goosenck that deteriorated & failed. I believe it was related to my iny mechanic using the Peak coolant vice the preferred BMW coolant. I may be wrong, but that's my opinion.
The top hose assy is pretty easy to replace. Since my lower hose assembly did not fail, I didn't replace it & can't speak fo that one. In hind sight, I should have replaced both at the same time & I recommend that. When I replaced the upper hose assy, I flushed out all the Peak coolant & reolaced it with fresh BMW coolant. That cost about $55 -$60 bucks (the hose assy was about $55 too) so my whole replacement cost was about $120.
The PVC hoses I ordered online were under $30 for the set, & replacing them is as easy as you've already read.
I cannot imagine what hoses they wanted $1100.00 for, even though when I first bought my Rover, the dealership gave me the same recommendation and price estimate when I had it examined by them.
That was maybe 2 years before my upper hose failure.

 

[03rangiemark]

By the way, my "check engine soon" light, seems to be really finnicky about keeping my octane level not much below the required 91 octane. If I run 2 tanks of 89 octane, it'll start to light up & nag me until I mix in some premium.
And as far as the coolant hose failure, I also experienced a surge tank leak some time before that & had to replace the surge tank. I believe that the cooling system failures were related to the Peak coolant because I began to notice the smell of heated coolant after my indy mech flushed & filled my Rover with Peak coolant. Prior to the flush & fill, I notice no coolant smell & never had a cooling problem. And after replacing the Peak w/ BMW, I have had no smell, no problem. I may be incorrect, but it's working for me so far. I have read that the florescence in many coolants attack some plastics in some manufacturers cooling systems. The BMW coolant (as you've probably already read in this forum) is formulated to have no adverse reaction with the plastics, at least the plastics in the BMW systems.

 

[Roverrad95]

It's called a very bad design. I had a very lenghty conversation with Knauz Land Rover in Lake Bluff, IL and Hornburg Land Rover in Los Angeles (Sunset Strip). My truck is still under warranty, as I bought the Land Rover extended (and have low miles) but I was quoted $700 from both dealers (as my truck spends half the year in each location). Mine aren't that bad yet, but if they somehow survive out of warranty it will be up to the next owner as I will not own my L322 out of warranty (and I owned a P38 and Classic out of warranty).

Apparently they are very difficult to access.

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

It's called a very bad design. I had a very lenghty conversation with Knauz Land Rover in Lake Bluff, IL and Hornburg Land Rover in Los Angeles (Sunset Strip). My truck is still under warranty, as I bought the Land Rover extended (and have low miles) but I was quoted $700 from both dealers (as my truck spends half the year in each location). Mine aren't that bad yet, but if they somehow survive out of warranty it will be up to the next owner as I will not own my L322 out of warranty (and I owned a P38 and Classic out of warranty).

Apparently they are very difficult to access.

What is difficult to access? The Radiator hoses? (at the front of the engine all within reach) or the PCV hoses? (on top of the engine, again all within reach)

I have to say that compared to the P38 the cooling system is a little more sensible, with a normal flow design, rather than the octopus thermostat housing from the P38. I've been running the L322 with 120,000 miles for a year and so far my total bills are:

Front and Rear pads - £40.00
Heater - engine union pipe - Free, I had some spare hose from PCV
PCV hoses - £4.00
Coolant Level Sensor - £10
Replace Lower Ball Joints - 2 x £150, went within 9 months of each other (garage did inc genuine LR parts)
Blower Resistor - £30

Gearbox Fluid & Filter Change - £150 (Garage did inc parts)
Oil Change - £40.00

So all in all, under £600.00 for a years worth of RR motoring.

 

[Roverrad95]

No, I'm talking about the ones in the back. That "apparently" require the block to be lifted out.

I don't know, I refuse to even learn about this electrical nightmare. I worked on the P38, which was scary enough, the classic was easy, the Land Cruisers are fun... but the L322 is not something I want to deal with.

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

I refuse to even learn about this electrical nightmare.

Then please don't palm your ignorance off on others who are willing to learn.

 

[Galen]

Thanks to all that have assisted me with shedding some light on these subjects. Think the PVC hoses are good for now; climbed on/under the truck last night checking things out w/a light, no tears or leaks or anything like that. That I could tell of course. But should be ok for now.

The radiator/coolant hose/issues. That's another story. Would prefer to act proactively to fix a potential for us ending up on the side of the road, that would be bad. Are there tell-tale signs of wear that I am missing? We have not had any check engine lights or anything like that come on; is that a precursor or do they just go?

I did not *really* think that the hoses would or could just 'go' & leave you stranded on the side of the road. That's just nuts. Or, if you were taking it out like I do in the middle of nowhere where we do not get cell service, well, that would be mighty bad. Don't get me wrong, this is a 'street' vehicle 90% of the time but we do take it out to get it back to it's heritage, so to speak in the wilderness. From the diagram Gazellio posted below it appears that there are 2 hoses in question, right? Those are the two I would need to replace. So why the Rover dealership wants $1K beats me. Does anyone happen to have links about where I could purchase these from? Or are they just hoses that I could pick up at an auto supply store? May be kind of difficult in the States, though? Again, in comparison with my 02 4Runner which I've replaced the battery, timing belt, oil changes, brakes/rotars & tires - that's it @ 117K miles.

I know I'm asking a lot of specific questions, but, I'd rather do what I can to this vehicle myself to a) learn about it & b) save a little $ - which is how we bought this thing new in the first place. All things considered, have had relatively few things go wrong but the most important aspect, to me, is getting from point a to point b. Ended up on the side of the road does not seem like a good way to spend a day.

 

[Dan_UK_1984]

From the diagram Gazellio posted below it appears that there are 2 hoses in question, right? Those are the two I would need to replace. So why the Rover dealership wants $1K beats me.

The ones in the diagram above are the PCV hoses....

 

[Galen]

Ah gotcha... just had my arms under the hood again, no issues with the PCV hoses. I'm still trying to figure out about the coolant radiator hoses...

 

[03rangiemark]

The possibility of a hose failure is no more likely with the Rover than with any other car. It just seems that way when you focus on the subject. The same possibility exists with any vehicle.
If the PCV hose fails, it's not catastrophic. You'll get teh Check Engine indicator telling you somethings wrong with your emissions control; the truck might be polluting a little more than normal.
I can't speak for roverrad & I'm sorry to hear that he/she found it difficult to access any of the hoses in question, but from my experience, they're rather easy to access and replace.
Considering the ease of replacement & the reasonable cost of the hoses, I can't see $1100 for hose replacement. But the key thing to remember is that you are a Range Rover owner that North American Land Rover dealership. That said, the dealership price is commensurate with the clientelle.
The price of the prestige.
Oh yea... A good source for parts are the sponsors who support this forum & the parent website; I use them as often as needed & for accessories too.
In addition to them I use British Pacific, another great source for LR parts in the U.S.
All are online accessible.
And sometimes I buy from the dealership, if the price is competitive. I bought my BMW coolant from a BMW dealership (car OR motorcycle) which is the same coolant that the LR dealership sells, but a good bit less $$.

 

[03rangiemark]

...Are there tell-tale signs of wear that I am missing? We have not had any check engine lights or anything like that come on; is that a precursor or do they just go?
....

Indicators that your vehicle is forming a leak or potential failure are when you can smell the odor of coolant after driving & your vehicle has warmed a good bit. YOu don't need to go sniffing for faint smells, it would be noticeable enough. Then there are the more obvious signs; occasional or frequent low coolant, puddles of coolant (not to be confused with water from your A.C. condenser)under your vehicle, overheating...
It's not as likely that the system would fail without some/all of these warnings, but it's possible. I mean, how many vehicles do you see on the side of the road with steam billowing out?

 

[Galen]

Yes, I agree that the more one focuses on something the more you will see it. I was under the impression, however, that the coolant hoses were somewhat of a defect w/RR vehicles with the BMW engine? That was sort of what the delear alluded to. If it is not then, well, I've been making a mountain out of a mole-hill it would seem. So the probability of blowing a hose is the same on our Rover 05 RR w/54K on it is just the same as any other vehicle? Huh. That is a very good thing to hear.

I *am* going to replace the hoses. Is this what I would need: http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/9370L.cfm ? Is there a step-by-step guide online or a book available explaining DIY?

Thanks.