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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #1
My 2004 L322 was running and sounding fine until I tried to start it yesterday morning. Really rough idle and engine light. Pulled the codes with my generic reader and it showed P1300, P0305-P0308 (a generic misfire and misfires on all of Bank 2). I should have used my RSW reader, but it is too late now.

As I worked on the engine before (head gaskets) I feared my Vanos and/or trigger wheel may have loosened as this is common. Before proceeding I checked my connections (look fine), checked for air leaks (looked fine), removed, examined and measured the ohms on the Bank 2 crank position sensor (although not the same readings as the other side they were similar) and finally I removed the valve cover and inspected (all appeared in order). At this point I don't want to start tearing anymore into the top end without looking elsewhere. Misfires are only Bank 2 related.

So here are my questions:

1) The vanos and trigger wheel appear tight. I cannot move them by hand and putting force on the trigger wheel nut with a vice grip shows it is tight. Question - If the trigger wheel nut is tight does that also mean my vanos bolt is also tight. (I don't recall if the trigger wheel nut also prevents the vanos bolt from loosening - maybe someone with a fresher recall will know). Eyeballing the timing based on the rear of the cam square, upper timing cover hole and the trigger wheel it looks like the timing is still intact and nothing has moved.

2) Question: Will a bad crank position sensor throw an independent code separately from the P1300 and P0305-308? I suppose I can swap the Bank 1 and Bank 2 sensors to see if the code follows the sensor.

3) Question: Vanos Solenoid - Will a bad vanos solenoid throw an independent code separately from the P1300 and P0305-308?

I am trying to minimize disturbing things as I have it pretty well sorted out right now. I know I should pull items and set timing and install blocks to eliminate timing for sure. I have a spare vanos solenoid in my basement, but I don't want to blindly swap parts if a code should be present if the solenoid is bad.

At this point the valve cover is off - some of the testing I can do requires me to put it back on along with all of the coils. As I don't want to do this and have to remove them again - I am hoping someone can chime in with ideas.
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #2
Update: After successfully moving the Bank 2 injector box wiring to a newer box that was not broken I put the car back together.

I flipped the cam shaft sensors to see if the misfire would follow. It did not. Still error codes on Bank 2 only.

I disconnected the Bank 2 upstream 02 sensor with no change. In fact I did not even get a code for this on my Generic OBD2 reader or my RSW All-Coms.

I also switched the order of the ignition coils with no change.

Question: If I pull the Bank 2 Vanos solenoid connector what can I expect?

Any other ideas?
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Have you looked at all the coils on bank2? How about moving them over to bank1 to aee if the issue follows? Unlikely that all go at once so maybe one of them is the culprit depending on the firing order. I would also revisit the pcv system and hoses. Just my opinion
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Rovah - thanks for the suggestions. On reinstall of the valve cover I reversed the order of the coils so what was at 5 went to 8 and so on. It made no difference. I disconnected coil #5 and it made no difference.

I double checked the PCV system and it all looks good - all parts have less than 10k on them. I sprayed MAF cleaner around and noted no changes suggesting no leaks.

When I pulled spark plug 5 (the only one I removed) I noticed it was wet with gas. In addition the exhaust smells of fuel.

I am thinking maybe Bank 2 in its entirety or at least one of the spark plugs (#5) is/are not firing based on the fact the spark plug was wet.

Questions: Air-Fuel-Fire -- Will the injector fire if it doesn't have fuel (on an individual cylinder basis or bank 2 or entire engine)?

Will the engine run and idle with only Bank 1 operational?

I am going to disconnect coil #6 and see if things worsen. Maybe I have a bad spark plug??

Tomorrow I will buy an ignition coil tester.

So far the computer has only been good to tell me Bank 2 has an issue.

I have talked to several mechanics and they are puzzled it is only on Bank 2. Many of the items I asked about would impact the entire engine.
 

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Okay well then here are my next suggestions related to Bank2 only, seeing that you are already on the right path. Take a look at the spark plugs and the injectors/wires. If all is fine, I think it may be a clogged cat on Bank2. I know how fun of a puzzle these engines are to figure out sometimes!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have been thinking clogged cat, but why would it run without any issues the day before? One would think a slow decrease in performance over time??

I will pull the O2 sensor and see if that helps - plus with a scope I should be able to see if it is plugged.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well my original diagnosis was correct, but my testing was faulty. The Vanos loosened and threw off the timing.

Not sure why it did not throw any timing codes. Five different scanners were used. So any member following this - after a vanos removal (in my case 8k miles later) if the Rover is running really rough out of the blue and throwing no codes this could be the issue. Start with the scan and move to a compression test.

In the end a compression test was done on cylinders 5 and 6 - both read 30. They held 30 so the valves may be okay - looking through the spark plug hole does not show any signs of valve to piston contact. I saw another member that had the same issue and their valves did not bend. I hope I am similarly fortunate.

At this point I am going to buy or borrow a leak down tester to confirm the valves are all okay, but in the interim I am stripping down to reset the timing.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Update: I have McGregor running again. I did the leak down test and all was good. The vanos bolt loosening was the source of my issues. I think that bent valves are not likely in this scenario as the vanos design does not permit the valves to hit the head - what I believe happens is the vanos goes to its extreme position (which of course cannot cause valve contact) and causes the base timing to be off. By moving it all back and resetting it - the issue will be resolved.

I pinned the engine, pulled what needed to be pulled and retimed it with the blocks. Put it all back together and received a timing code for Bank 1.

Backing up so others may gain from my learnings. On prior work I had issues with timing on Bank 2, which I attribute to the timing jigs that are used to set the trigger wheel and/or the upper timing cover gaskets not being optimal. On this go around I set the timing by using the jig and then installed the Bank 2 upper timing cover without the gasket being held by two bolts. I set it flush with the head. I used the timing hole in the upper timing cover to finalize where the trigger wheel needed to be. It showed my jig was off so I adjusted it.

I did not do this for Bank 1, because in the past I did not have this issue with my timing jigs. Well I received a Bank 1 timing off code and got a check engine light. I knew my blocks were spot on and the engine was pinned so I just removed the Bank 1 valve cover enough so that I could get a wrench on the trigger wheel nut. I did not take off the Bank 1 upper timing cover or anything else. I marked the wheel and the vanos with a Sharpie after cleaning the area off with a rag. On the vanos I made a second mark about 2mm away (clockwise) from the original base timing mark I made. I moved the trigger wheel mark to the new second mark on the vanos and locked the trigger wheel down. [Note: The vanos will move as you tighten and loosen. Just pay attention and follow your marks.]

Started McGregor up and no lights and he runs very well.

So for those out there that get the timing codes after redoing your timing, and KNOW FOR SURE your blocks were spot on - just adjust the trigger wheel. The issue is the jigs or the gasket. The gasket if not pushed down far enough (even using all the correct techniques) will raise the cam position sensor relative to the timing wheel - they are two different parts. This slight change in height appears to be the cause of the M62 throwing the trouble code or jigs that are off (or both).
 

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Kg. I respect your contributions and ability and so this issue makes me very nervous to attempt a possible similar upcoming repair. Could you comment on how the assembly might loosen and steps taken to solve this issue as I am thinking that some kind of engine vibration may promote the loosening. Can it be resolved with the use of locktite and can the parts be cleaned well enough for the locktite to be effective.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
diff: Good questions but I don't know if anyone has a definitive answer. From what I read usually what happens is the drivers side vanos bolt loosens up. I have not seen any mention of the passenger side. It may happen but I have not seen it in my searching, which I admit has been for the driver side.

Some think that the oil pressure is the cause of the problem - one person thought it was like a hydraulic jack hammer. Their theory not mine. I think the problem may be that when the timing is set enough care isn't focused on keeping the blocks flat on the head AND not eliminating every millimeter of slack out of the driver side timing chain. That is why the instruction start with Bank 2 (driver side). The Vanos bolt has to be loose enough to spin freely and not have any slack - and the special vanos turning tool has to be turned counterclockwise to 40nm.

My theory is that if any slack is in the system on Bank 2 - this slack - when the engine is running - as it tightens produces sufficient torque to slowly turn the vanos bolt - probably on slow down as the direction is then correct. Think of it like a ever so slight negative jerk - repeated countless times. The chain slack has no where to go as the various teeth restrict the movement. Any slack and the slightest delay it causes makes a push pull. On Bank 1 the timing chain tensioner can absorb this, but on Bank 2 it has no where to go and the energy ultimately loosens the vanos bolt. That is my theory - but I am not an engineer or a mechanic.

What I did was follow the latest BMW authorized method to the letter and repeated the process a second time. I assured myself no slack was on the Bank 2 timing chain. I then followed Beisan's approach and dual staged my tightening. I again checked my vanos did not move with the special tool and 40nm of torque. I completely ignored the electronic testing - as the 40nm turn was what I relied on. Then I tightened my vanos bolt to the higher setting used on the exhaust sprocket.

I thought long on the use of red Loctite, but in the end, after reading about its curing time, I did not think I could get the job done in 10 minutes. I did spray and clean both the cam ends with brake cleaner a number of times to get out any oil. I did the same for the vanos and exhaust sprocket bolts. Cleaning out the cams 100% would require removing them - if I recall correctly they are hollow with threading on the front ends to accept the bolts.

In the end I relied on cleaning them the best I could, removing every bit of slack possible on the Bank 2 side of the timing chain and upping the torque on the vanos bolt to be equal to the exhaust sprocket bolt.

One fear I had was snapping the vanos bolt in the cam, but looking at the bolt and comparing it to the exhaust bolt I was comfortable with doing it.

Time will tell if it works. As for using new bolts - from what I read - people have the same issue with new bolts.
 
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