[rayc]

Well it seems this car is going to be an epic to put right.

When I got it the car was lumpy starting.

Today I changed the glowplugs.

Now it wont start at all. It tries to fire but doesn't catch and then just turns over without any inkling of trying to fire.

I had the battery disconnected but the remote works and the car cranks over so I assume thats ok

Glow plug tell tale lights up for about 10 secs and goes out. Tried doing 3 or 4 times and then it tries to fire (as before) but doesn't catch whereas before it did start.

Any ideas please?

Could it glow plug circuit? A fuse? A relay?

Appreciate any help! Thanks

Ray

 

[wills]

Are you sure the new glow plugs are working ok?? Did you check them??

When you replaced the plugs what did you remove to be able to gain access to the plugs??

-Wills

 

[Chas]

Reads as though the glow plugs aren't working as they should.
I'm suspicious about the new plugs rather than the control unit.
Did you get the Dealer ones you were thinking of?
Did you test the plugs individually before fitting?
In some way you need to 'judge' the current the plugs are taking, and also make sure all the plugs are getting hot.
If you can't measure the current, and most can't because it's too high, at ~16 Amps per plug, put a digital voltmeter across the battery.
Record the voltage:
With the ignition off
Switch the ignition on and leave it on until the brake pump has stopped running.
Switch the Ignition off, then on, starting a timer at the same time.
Record the voltage
With the ignition on, glow plug warning light on.
Time how long it takes between the ignition being switched on, and the voltage rising again; expect this to be about twice the time the light stays on for. You will hear a relay click as the timing finishes.
Record the voltage again after it rises.
This is background, there are no set figures to compare with.
Next measure (and record) the voltages at each plug.

Give us the numbers and we will see if we can draw any conclusions.

Have you kept the old plugs?
Have you tested them? - Individually across a charged battery is fine.
You are looking at how long they take to get visibly hot, then the colour and the area coloured.
Ideally you would strap all six together and fire them all at once, but individually will probably be good enough to show the worst performers.

HTH

 

[rayc]

Hi Chas,

Bought from Euro car parts and checked them before fitting.

I'll sort the voltages etc but am thinking it's a fuelling problem as the tailpipes puff smoke when turning over initially then nothing.
All the gaskets were missing from the inlet manifold and were gunked with silicone sealer. Now they are correct.

I'm not sure about the starter or even the engine at the moment.

It's a new starter but the battery even with jum leads on my 4.6 and engine running (Proper truck jump leads too) the engine is hardly turning over and sounds like it's dry!

Checked the oil again today and it was on the bottom marker so it's using it somewhere (Probably due to crappy oil in the engine).

I've now got a 20amp charger on the battery with start function but still wont crank over fast.

The fuel pump is running and I drained the filter and watched the air bubble travel down the clear pipe. So fuels pumping on crank.

I think this poor old girl has been seriously neglected and maybe beyond easy fix.

I'm using the time at the moment to clean the minging interior. (roof is dark brown in colour, seats are a grease grey colour, should be lightstone with red piping Grow potatoes in the carpet !).

My mate who works for BMW asked if I had mislodged the sensor wire on the injector (Common for this problem) but thats all in place.

Maybe the poor old girl has just had enough!

 

[rayc]

Are you sure the new glow plugs are working ok?? Did you check them??

When you replaced the plugs what did you remove to be able to gain access to the plugs??

-Wills

Sorry Wils. Missed this one.

Removed the inlet manifold to do the plugs as I didn't have 1/4 drive long 12mm.

Good job I did as the gaskets were missing. :shock:

 

[Chas]

Ok,
If the engine is turning over slowly it will never start; it's the speed of the piston up the bore that provides the heat of compression that makes the air hot enough for the fuel to start burning when it is injected.

Give the engine a longish crank, say 15 to 20 seconds, then go round and feel the temperature of the main connections, that's both battery terminals, earth to the engine block, main cable to the starter solenoid, and solenoid to motor. You are looking for one that's high resistance, and has therefore heated up under the long current draw.
A more scientific check is to measure the volt drop between the Positive battery terminal and the main cable terminal on the starter solenoid.
Then measure the volt drop between the Battery Negative terminal and the case of the starter motor.
Both measurements while the starter is powered, obviously
You want less than 1 volt on each reading, so if you do this, pick an appropriate range on your voltmeter.
If that finds nothing then pull the starter motor and check for inner cleanliness, stuck brushes, that sort of thing.

Two extra points.
Did you plug the MAF back in properly? The engine ECU has to get it's ambient temperature reading from somewhere.

Connect a voltmeter to the fuel solenoid on the back of the high pressure pump to make sure it's at least getting voltage. You will need a second pair of hands to check if it's working (one on the solenoid to feel it click, the other on the ignition switch to switch it on and off).

HTH

 

[rayc]

/thanks for that Chas.

MAF wasnt unplugged so that rules that out.

Starter is new. So should be clean.

I think the battery may have seen better days.

However, even jumping off mine with the engine running I cant get much out of the starter.

I'll check the earth etc.

Thanks for the advice mate :thumb:

 

[rayc]

JUST A THOUGHT.

Is it possible that where I disconnected the battery the BECM needs to do a relearn? ie off to the specialist and get him to relearn the immobilisor?

 

[rayc]

JUST A THOUGHT.

Is it possible that where I disconnected the battery the BECM needs to do a relearn? ie off to the specialist and get him to relearn the immobilisor?

 

[Chas]

If the starter motor is turning the security is being negotiated OK. A vehicle with EGR will have friendly resynchronisation fitted so there is no need for the key to be re-synched as would be the case for a '95.

 

[rayc]

Ah!

OK then. And there's me thinking I was being clever!

 

[wills]

Another thought - you didn't put any sort of sealing tape (such as PTFE) on the threads of the plugs did you?? I knew someone who did this with a vehicle and then wondered why the plugs weren't working!

-Wills

 

[rayc]

No mate.

Just a bit of copperslip, which is something I've always done on my glow plugs / plugs so they come out again!

 

[Col]

The fuel pump is running and I drained the filter and watched the air bubble travel down the clear pipe. So fuels pumping on crank.

Have You Tried Bleeding the Fuel System? to see if this Helps.

Cheers

 

[wills]

Did you also make sure you properly reconnected the small hose that comes from the underneath of the inlet manifold to the manifold pressure sensor (assuming vehicles with EGR have this).

Did you put all the leak-off pipes back correctly as well?? I know when I changed my leak-off pipes it took a good 30-35 secs of cranking before it fired back into life.

-Will

 

[tonybig666]

hi
Have you checked the the control gear and fuse in the box behind the battery. had a starting problem and found the fuse had blown replaced with several bits of 15 amp to get me away new fuse in now all good.
Tony

 

[rayc]

This will be my next port of call.

I seem to have another problem now.

The starter motor wont turn the engine over. It was very sluggish like a flat battery then it started to click.

It still only clicks whether boosted with a charge pack or jump started from my 4.6 with the engine running!

Either the starter (which is supposed to be new) has burnt out or an earth is failing somewhere.

When it stops raining I'll go and clean the earth cables

This ones going to be an epic. I can feel it in my bones!

 

[wills]

What is the booster pack like??

This is only my personal experience but I've always found if you want to jump start a diesel vehicle you need another vehicle which is diesel and high quality leads. The amount of juice required to get a diesel running is significantly more than a petrol engine uses hence the fact you have larger capacity batteries for diesel engined vehicles. I might be totally wrong about that but I know the 2 times I have had to jump start my P38 I had to get another diesel vehicle to jump from as the petrol cars we have don't have the battery capacity to do it.

How old is the battery in the vehicle anyway??

-Will

 

[rayc]

Hi Wills,

The jump leads were from my haulage days and are truck leads. About 10 times thicker than normal leads.

I dont know the condition of the car battery but I had it on charge for 24 hrs (Showing good charge) along with a charger that has a jump start capacity along with the 4.6 running and jump leads. All |I got was a click.

I'll get a new battery today but still think it's lost the sync between becm and immobiliser as the check engine light isn't illuminated.

I have a sync mate on order to alleviate that issue as well.

Cant believe changing glow plugs would open such a can of worms!

I still have to get to the bottom of the vanishing oil syndorme. Car hasn't done 100 miles since I topped it up but used about 2 litres of oil. :shock:

Inlet manifold is swimming in the stuff. So possibly turbo seals (No oil smoke tho) or bottom end pressure.

I'm going to give it a good flush and some decent oil just in case it has sticky rings!

WHEN I get it going again!

 

[rayc]

Took the starter out this afternoon.

No wonder it wouldn't start. Total meltdown!

I reckon it's been cranked for too long a period repeatedly and done the windings in.

It looked to be a refurb too!

So now have a genuine article on the way :?

Then try again!