1997 Range Rover- Need Help and Seriously Will Pay for Expert Advice/Help!

1700 Views 38 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Gordo51, 2 d ago

NickBeam

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

Hey Guys,

Recently bought a 1997 Red Range Rover with 70k Miles and its in really good condition besides the paint fade. However I am here for one major issue and would appreciate expert advice or guidance. No issue paying somebody with patience who can walk me through best method or help me get this fixed. I have been told by a few there might be no fix and im scared out of my mind!

The Issue: Car previous owner Lost the KEYS! He then bought an ignition from a junkyard and swapped it in. The key turns all the way, the car lights/dash are on but as you can assume there is no crank and it does not start. As a noob i have read this may be related to the immobilizer, key module or security system? I have attached a picture of my key. I dont think it has a chip in it. The OBd scan computer wont even register or allowed to see anything else either .

The dealerships have been no help so far on phone. All saying different things. One said i need to buy 2 keys then see if i need a module and then see if they can program it. The car is currently at my mechanic who is usually a Wizard and he told me the wiring is good and he tried everything but this car is not his specialty.

I am located in Northern Virginia 20171. Please all advice is welcome but please only advice or help from somebody who can help, is willing to help and even if you dont want money to help me, I will then donate to charity of your choice for helping me! I just want to get this started so i can then get it resprayed and restore this thing!

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xrav22

· #2 · 1 mo ago

Well the first thing you should get is a nonocom evolution.
NANOCOM User Login Page - NANOCOM Diagnostics. I have the immobilizer turned off and can start mine with the spare key that has no fob. It also syncs engine and becm. It may help you go to the site and sign up then play with the emulater to get started. I am not quarantee success but worth a try. Is it 4.0 SE or 4.6HSE?
Also what is the message center showing when you turn the key?
Good Luck!

95classiclwb

· #3 · 1 mo ago

Many of us have played with key electronics on our p38's. Findings after testing and installing remote start, your inmobilizer is deactivated as soon as the driver's door lock sees an input, be it thru factory remote unlock or thru physical key in tumbler.
Initially your lock sees action and awakens the becm, ignition opens and second handshake allows for engine start and run.
Same reason your valet key works.
Similar system used with aftermarket keyless entry and remote start. Your key and or key fob do not have chips to be read by ignition circuit. Basically as long as you can turn ignition switch, the electronic hand shake exists and engine should run. First line of defense is your door lock.
If all is well and ecu has not been swapped, it should run, if ecu has been swapped then you need to sync ecu and becm with internal security code or lock set bar code. It can be found in the becm by using land rover specific scanner such as test book, t4, nanocom, autologic etc.
Where in nova are you located and does your mechanic have any land rover oriented software? If not you are rowing against the river current.

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Bolt

· #4 · 1 mo ago

First: Don't Panic! This is fixable.
The previous owner did not understand what he was doing.
You need the ignition barrel, the ECU, drivers door lock, and the BECM from the wreckers yard. They are all coded together.
Is this a Gems engine? (Rectangular intake in center of engine.)
Or Bosch (Looks like a bunch of sausages in center of engine)
If Gems, you could fit one of these:

www.labtronx.com.au

Engine immobilization problems | Labtronx

I'm a product description. I'm a great place to add more details about your product such as sizing, material, care instructions and cleaning instructions.

www.labtronx.com.au

www.labtronx.com.au

If Bosch, there is an ECU emulator made by PsiDoc on this site, which will get you going.
Either one allows the engine to start, no matter what alarmed or immobilized state it is in.
I believe PsiDoc also does a fix for Gems......

Reactions: 1

IRusio

· #5 · 30 d ago

Bolt said:
First: Don't Panic! This is fixable.
The previous owner did not understand what he was doing.
You need the ignition barrel, the ECU, drivers door lock, and the BECM from the wreckers yard. They are all coded together.
Is this a Gems engine? (Rectangular intake in center of engine.)
Or Bosch (Looks like a bunch of sausages in center of engine)
If Gems, you could fit one of these:

Engine immobilization problems | Labtronx

I'm a product description. I'm a great place to add more details about your product such as sizing, material, care instructions and cleaning instructions.

www.labtronx.com.au

If Bosch, there is an ECU emulator made by PsiDoc on this site, which will get you going.
Either one allows the engine to start, no matter what alarmed or immobilized state it is in.
I believe PsiDoc also does a fix for Gems......

You can reprogram keys from one becm to another. You don't need to do that

Richard_G

· #6 · 30 d ago

If the key is turning but the starter doesn't, that confirms GEMS (as does a 97 model). The fact that the ignition lock has been changed doesn't really matter if all you have is the mechanical key, it is only relevant if you are swapping a lock and remote fob where it is the fob that is matched to the rest of the electronics. The lock just turns a switch and, if you are getting all the dash lights coming on, it is working. If the car has been locked with the mechanical key, it will enable the immobiliser but will turn it off when you unlock it with the key. When you try to start what is the dash telling you? If it is displaying Keycode Lockout, that means you have just connected the battery and it need to be left 10 (on an early car) or 30 minutes (on a later one which a 97 should be) until it goes out. More likely it is showing Engine Immobilised, Press Remote which you can't do as you don't have one (and even if you did and it matched the lock it won't match the rest of the car). If that is the case, you need to do a bit of temporary wiring.

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kultur

· #7 · 30 d ago

I thought Nick Beam drove a blue GMC Yukon lol?!

Sorry Nothing to Lose is one of my favorite movies.

NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #8 · 30 d ago

xrav22 said:
Well the first thing you should get is a nonocom evolution.
NANOCOM User Login Page - NANOCOM Diagnostics. I have the immobilizer turned off and can start mine with the spare key that has no fob. It also syncs engine and becm. It may help you go to the site and sign up then play with the emulater to get started. I am not quarantee success but worth a try. Is it 4.0 SE or 4.6HSE?
Also what is the message center showing when you turn the key?
Good Luck!

Thank you all so much! I am going to upload a picture of the engine and the dash when key turned then see what you think!

NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #9 · 30 d ago

95classiclwb said:
Many of us have played with key electronics on our p38's. Findings after testing and installing remote start, your inmobilizer is deactivated as soon as the driver's door lock sees an input, be it thru factory remote unlock or thru physical key in tumbler.
Initially your lock sees action and awakens the becm, ignition opens and second handshake allows for engine start and run.
Same reason your valet key works.
Similar system used with aftermarket keyless entry and remote start. Your key and or key fob do not have chips to be read by ignition circuit. Basically as long as you can turn ignition switch, the electronic hand shake exists and engine should run. First line of defense is your door lock.
If all is well and ecu has not been swapped, it should run, if ecu has been swapped then you need to sync ecu and becm with internal security code or lock set bar code. It can be found in the becm by using land rover specific scanner such as test book, t4, nanocom, autologic etc.
Where in nova are you located and does your mechanic have any land rover oriented software? If not you are rowing against the river current.

I am in Herndon va 20171. Do you know someone around me who can assist?

NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #10 · 30 d ago

Richard_G said:
If the key is turning but the starter doesn't, that confirms GEMS (as does a 97 model). The fact that the ignition lock has been changed doesn't really matter if all you have is the mechanical key, it is only relevant if you are swapping a lock and remote fob where it is the fob that is matched to the rest of the electronics. The lock just turns a switch and, if you are getting all the dash lights coming on, it is working. If the car has been locked with the mechanical key, it will enable the immobiliser but will turn it off when you unlock it with the key. When you try to start what is the dash telling you? If it is displaying Keycode Lockout, that means you have just connected the battery and it need to be left 10 (on an early car) or 30 minutes (on a later one which a 97 should be) until it goes out. More likely it is showing Engine Immobilised, Press Remote which you can't do as you don't have one (and even if you did and it matched the lock it won't match the rest of the car). If that is the case, you need to do a bit of temporary wiring.

What kind of temporary wiring? I will upload the dash pic

Richard_G

· #11 · 30 d ago

There's 3 microswitches inside the driver's door latch. Using the mechanical key all the time will cause one of them to wear so it no longer operates when you turn the key. When you turn the key it will mechanically unlock the car which operates a microswitch (the CDL switch) to tell the central locking system to unlock the other doors and another switch which detects the key being turned. It is this keyswitch that wears as it was only ever intended to be used in emergencies, the remote fob being the primary way of locking and unlocking the car. When that happens only the CDL switch operates but not the keyswitch. The system then thinks that someone has smashed the window and unlocked the car by pulling the sill locking button up, so the immobiliser stays on. To get around this problem you need to take the door panel off and add some temporary wiring to allow you to simulate the two switches operating.

However, this only applies if the car won't turn the starter because the immobiliser is on. That is why I asked what message you are getting on the dash.

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xrav22

· #12 · 30 d ago

I just had my lock apart because my key stuck in the ignition after I tried to lube it. Lot of gunk but brake cleaner and silicone spray did the job. Here is a pic.

Vehicle Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive exterior Gas

You can see the lock at the top and the switch at the bottom. I can turn the switch since the alarm is off and start the car. The But I cannot unlock the steering without turning the key. Now the dash message is key here as if you close the door and unlock the door with the key the alarm should simply be off, and turning the key should start it. Please try this experiment. roll the windows down get out and turn the key and "hold" to the right, all the windows should roll up and no beeps heard. then turn the key to the left if the doors unlock the door actuator (lock)tells the car you are not in arm mode. Lets see what the message has to say.

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NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #13 · 29 d ago

Richard_G said:
There's 3 microswitches inside the driver's door latch. Using the mechanical key all the time will cause one of them to wear so it no longer operates when you turn the key. When you turn the key it will mechanically unlock the car which operates a microswitch (the CDL switch) to tell the central locking system to unlock the other doors and another switch which detects the key being turned. It is this keyswitch that wears as it was only ever intended to be used in emergencies, the remote fob being the primary way of locking and unlocking the car. When that happens only the CDL switch operates but not the keyswitch. The system then thinks that someone has smashed the window and unlocked the car by pulling the sill locking button up, so the immobiliser stays on. To get around this problem you need to take the door panel off and add some temporary wiring to allow you to simulate the two switches operating.

However, this only applies if the car won't turn the starter because the immobiliser is on. That is why I asked what message you are getting on the dash.

First thanks again Richard for your time. I can just tell you're gonna be a lifesaver and I'll be happy to pay/donate if we solve this! I just went to the car, it is indeed a 4.6hse. Pictures attached. When turning the key all the way, there is a loud beeping. The dash reads "Engine disabled, press remote" . It also quickly said EAS something above the engine disabled but that went away. The little red light near the windshield is also blinking. The battery has been changed as well. Also I have only the 1 key to the ignition. I do not have any door keys. With all this said what do I do next?

Do I need to proceed to your driver's door method? Are there instructions on what wiring to add to simulate two switches operating? Is this method affected by not having a door key? Do I need to order the nanocom unit for any reason?

NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #14 · 29 d ago

2

Pics below

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NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #15 · 29 d ago

xrav22 said:
I just had my lock apart because my key stuck in the ignition after I tried to lube it. Lot of gunk but brake cleaner and silicone spray did the job. Here is a pic.
View attachment 309539
You can see the lock at the top and the switch at the bottom. I can turn the switch since the alarm is off and start the car. The But I cannot unlock the steering without turning the key. Now the dash message is key here as if you close the door and unlock the door with the key the alarm should simply be off, and turning the key should start it. Please try this experiment. roll the windows down get out and turn the key and "hold" to the right, all the windows should roll up and no beeps heard. then turn the key to the left if the doors unlock the door actuator (lock)tells the car you are not in arm mode. Lets see what the message has to say.

As I mentioned, I do not have any keys except the one that goes with the new ignition. No door keys, etc

P38HSE46

· #16 · 29 d ago

In order to input the engine disable code with the key you need to know the 4 digit EKA (emergency key access).

I suspect that you don't have it...

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

95classiclwb

· #17 · 29 d ago

Nick, for the door key and replacement fob, you may want to contact Les at north wales classic rides. I think it has been discussed he can provide such from scratch, he repaired my only existing fob.
this would allow you to lock/unlock doors and thus mobilize engine.
once mobilized you can then use the different ignition key to start vehicle.
as for using Richard's method, it is also a temporary solution worth looking into for immediate solution.

Reactions: 1

95classiclwb

· #18 · 29 d ago

P38HSE46 said:
In order to input the engine disable code with the key you need to know the 4 digit EKA (emergency key access).

I suspect that you don't have it...

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

US models do not seem to respond to eka as I think it was not programmed at inception. on my 2k p38 you simply hold the key to unlock for about a minute, all doors unlock and now my disable message is cleared, then I can open alarm does not trigger and I can start engine.

Richard_G

· #19 · 29 d ago

Correct, NAS cars do not have the EKA programmed, hence the dash saying Engine Immobilised, Press Remote, rather than Engine Disabled, Press Remote or Enter Code. Red LED on top of the dash means the alarm is still set so that would make sense as that would normally be turned off at the same time as the immobiliser.

Open the driver's door and remove the door panel (two screws under the armrest, one inside the interior door handle panel, one behind the tweeter housing and lots of fir tree clips). Find the cable running to the door latch and unplug both connectors (a 6 way and a 1 way). On the plug going to the door outstation (not the latch) identify the Green/Red and Blue/Red wires. Connect a piece of wire into these two. Get another piece of wire and connect it to ground then SIMULTANEOUSLY connect the ground wire to the other two. The central locking should operate and unlock all the doors, disconnect the ground from the Blue/Red wire but leave the Green/Red grounded (disconnect it and the central locking will lock all the doors) and the alarm LED should go out confirming the alarm has been turned off (and if the alarm has been turned off, the immobiliser will have been too). Put your key in the ignition and start the car.

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NickBeam

Discussion Starter · #20 · 29 d ago

95classiclwb said:
US models do not seem to respond to eka as I think it was not programmed at inception. on my 2k p38 you simply hold the key to unlock for about a minute, all doors unlock and now my disable message is cleared, then I can open alarm does not trigger and I can start engine.

Would you happen to have any of Les contact info? Yes I'll wait on Richard and obviously hope his solution works so can be started, moved, diagnosed etc.

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