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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #1
I thought I might mention that for any regular contributor to this forum I’d be happy to rebuild your 5HP24 free of charge, as it’s a hobby of mine, if you’re in the North West of England and can get your gearbox to me here in sunny Blackburn. I don’t have the facilities to get the gearbox out of & back into the car I’m afraid – anyway that’s the hard part. Stripping and rebuilding the gearbox is the easy bit! Obviously I’d have to ask you to pay for any parts that were required and, to give an idea of the sort of costs involved, the most basic rebuild would require :

ZF Overhaul Kit (full set of seals, gaskets, etc.) = £145

Filter = £30

10 litres LT 71141 = £85

Total = £260

So, for example, if you just had a problem caused by an internal seal failure or similar, then the total rebuild cost would be £260.

To give an idea of the cost for other common problems with the 5HP24 :

Failure to engage reverse (i.e. F Clutch Piston worn) = add £30

1-4 gears slipping (i.e. A Clutch Drum snap ring groove failure) = add £180

Replace all friction plates = add £200

Replace all steel plates = add £155

In other words, a complete transmission rebuild with all new friction plates, latest A Clutch Drum, new F Clutch Piston, new filter and fresh oil would come to £670.

(Obviously I only use genuine ZF parts sourced from official ZF car parts centres and Esso LT 71141 fluid. The cost of the parts may change – I’d just ask you to contribute exactly whatever they cost me).

In case it’s of interest I’ve attached a photo below of a 5HP24 that I’m currently in the process of rebuilding and also one that I’m just about to make a start on (actually from a Jag).

Phil
 

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Phil

Your knowledge and contribution to this forum is second to none.

And now your building gearbox's for free!!

Move over god, i have found someone else to worship.

John :clap:
 

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Phil, I've come to know you as a generously helpful soul in the relatively short time that I've frequented this forum, but now this is above & beyond. If the occasion arises where someone finds the need to take you up on it, you will surely be saving them a dear bit of coin. For you, the Range Rover must truely be a labour of love.

:clap: :clap:
 

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I don't even live anywhere near England, but it reassures me to know that there are people out there like you. :clap:

While I'm here I thought I'd ask a question: my gearbox has been acting up lately. When it's cold shifting from 1st to second can be a chore for it. In the process of shifting it seems to be in neutral until it decides to move to 2nd gear. Then, if I don't ease off the accelerator, it slams into gear. What do I need to do to fix this? I've heard that a transmission flush will most likely just make the problem worse. Am I in need of a rebuild or a new gearbox? Would a rebuild suffice?

Thank you for your time.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for your kind comments.

bsolidgold, I’m assuming here that your RR is a petrol ‘02-‘05 model.

So the problem is only with the oil cold? Have you experienced problems with the 3-2 downshift too? Perhaps you could try switching the gearbox into manual mode at around 30mph on an uphill gradient & downshift into 3rd (approx. 2000rpm engine speed) then floor the accelerator pedal and immediately manually downshift into 2nd. If the engine flares on the downshift then you may have an E Clutch problem.

If the 3-2 shift seems fine (repeatably) then I would suggest that you do replace the fluid & filter – so at least you know for sure that the fluid level is correct – and at the same time examine the contents of the sump pan for any clues that the A Clutch Drum may be on its way out. You’re looking for mangled bits of metal like those shown in the photo below, stuck to the magnets. The lower photo shows where they came from.

Phil
 

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RRPhil said:
bsolidgold, I’m assuming here that your RR is a petrol ‘02-‘05 model.
Correct. Only when the oil is cold. I had my Land Rover mechanic top off the oil over the summer and that seemed to help. Now that the weather is cooling down it seems to happen almost every morning and if I let it sit for a while. I haven't experienced any problems between 2-3 or 3-2. I'll give your experiment a shot and let you know the outcome. I appreciate your help.

-Bret
 

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RRPhil said:
If the 3-2 shift seems fine (repeatably) then I would suggest that you do replace the fluid & filter – so at least you know for sure that the fluid level is correct – and at the same time examine the contents of the sump pan for any clues that the A Clutch Drum may be on its way out. You’re looking for mangled bits of metal like those shown in the photo below, stuck to the magnets. The lower photo shows where they came from.

Phil
Phil, I gave your experiment a try and was unable to get the gearbox to act the same as in the 1-2 shift. As a matter of fact, I'm not experiencing any problems when I am in manual mode which is how I usually get the transmission to warm up in the morning when I'm having trouble with it. If it is in fact the A Clutch, how much would it cost to repair? Is it something that I would be able to do myself? Where might I find parts? How much would one expect to pay to have the work done?

Again, thank you for helping, you're a champ!
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #10
I wonder if, before throwing in the towel and resorting to getting the transmission out of your Range Rover, the next step should be to remove the valve block, clean it out & check it? This is a DIY job if you’re reasonably competent with a screwdriver & there are no special tools required beyond a Torx T27 screwdriver socket bit (the 5HP24 hydraulics are held together exclusively by Torx T27 screws).

Once the valve block is out you can also just get a view of the E Clutch plates from underneath (photo below) which may give an idea what shape they’re in.

Although you can purchase the filter, fluid & sump pan gasket from a Land Rover dealer you would also need to source the valve block gasket (ZF part number 1058 327 045 - shown in photo below) from somewhere.

If you fancy having a go I can take you through it, step by step, with photos. First though I would suggest that you check that you can get hold of the gasket. In the UK there are only four official ZF spare part distributors, which makes things easy, but I’m not sure how it works in the States? According to this website http://www.tsgparts.net/ there’s a ZF parts supplier called Transtar in Salt Lake City (3472 West 2100 South, Salt Lake City, UT 84119. Phone : (800) 275-0651).

Anyway, let me know what you think.

Phil
 

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I'll see what I can do to find the parts and tool(s) needed for your suggestion. I did a connecting rod bearing replacement on my old Dodge a while back, so I'm not completely useless with mechanics (but mostly). Roverland, Rover Connection and Transtar are all here in Salt Lake City so I should be able to get the parts fairly easily. I try to avoid the dealer at all costs :lol: Making time to do the work is going to be the hard part. Think I could get it done in a weekend?

Your help is greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
 

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Phil,

You'll be glad to know my Range Rover is running better than ever following your sterling work in rebuilding my transmission. Not only have you saved me £4k or £5k, your progress reports and photo's were much appreciated.

When my transmission failed the guy at the garage told my wife there was "some guy called Phil from up North that fixed gearboxes for nothing". I didn't really believe it, but after two minutes googling we found you here. As a fellow Engineer I can fully understand you wanting to rebuild boxes in your spare time but still getting my head round the free bit !! :D

For anyone else with a knackered automatic transmission I can only suggest they take full advantage of your generous service.

Once again, many thanks for all your help.

Dave.
 

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Dang Phil that a really generous thing to do. Especially considering how picky RR folks can be.

I don't need a transmission but I may hit you up for tips one day when mine fails. Did you assemble the special tools required yourself or did you go out and purchase the LR special tools?

Anyone near you would be completely foolish not to take you up on this offer.
 

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I take my hat off to you Phil!! Makes my hobby of flying planes look like childs play!!!

I hope i never need your services..... but if i do i'll be calling you 1st!

Seasons greetings...
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you all for your kind comments.

Dave – I’m pleased to hear your Range Rover is running fine again.

The ZF transmission really isn’t that difficult to strip and rebuild – I suppose the trickiest bit is knowing where to look for failures from diagnosing the original problem.

nsxxtreme said:
Did you assemble the special tools required yourself or did you go out and purchase the LR special tools?
Because the Land Rover technicians don’t strip and rebuild the gearboxes themselves (I guess Land Rover’s view is that this isn’t cost effective) the only Land Rover special tools available are just those for replacing the external (i.e. input, output & selector shaft) lip seals. ZF themselves, however, do list numerous special tools for dismantling, adjusting & rebuilding the 5HP24 - the vast majority of which are what I would describe as ‘Health & Safety’ related e.g. a fixture for holding the casing or for lifting a heavy geartrain/clutch assembly. I can see that these would have their place if you were rebuilding the transmissions all day, every day, but they really aren’t necessary for ‘occasional’ rebuilds.

There are a few special tools however that it would be difficult to manage without. For example, to remove all the clutch pistons from their housings the return springs have to be compressed first so I had these 3 tools made up to use with a mandrel press :



The three tools suffice for all six clutches.


Rear-wheel drive (i.e. Jaguar & BMW) versions of the 5HP24 have a special slotted nut to hold the output flange and preload the bearings and this requires a special tool to slacken and tighten the nut :



For our Range Rover transmissions though there are no plunge loads from the propshaft as the output shaft goes straight into the transfer box so there are no output bearings in the gearbox and therefore no special nut and hence no special tool is required.

To set up the clutch pack clearances you have to take a number of accurate measurements so a vernier depth gauge is required plus 20.5kg in weights (= 200N force) to compress the undulating plates before measuring the thickness of each complete clutch plate pack.

A dial indicator is required to check the end float of the input & output assemblies.

A normal multimeter is needed to check the winding resistances of the solenoids and speed sensors and also the resistance of the fluid temperature sensor.

And that's about it - the remaining tools you’ll find in an average tool kit, noting that most bolts are of the Torx type.
 

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Hi phil I stumbled across this post researching these boxes. I have a problem with mine which I was hoping you could shed some light on. The box runs spot, however usually after about 30mins I get the failsafe program and 4th gr only. I have run a carsoft diagnostic and I am consistently getting-(solenoid 3/speed sensor output n-ab). We have changed the speed sensor and done a full flush and new fluid however the problem remains. What would you recommend? Should we do the solenoid?
Many thanks for your help in this matter
Karan
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #20
Hi Karan,

I haven’t heard of a problem with a 5HP24 solenoid before – but there’s always a first time I guess. Are you in the UK? – if so I could send you a solenoid to try first, if you like, rather than you going to the expense of buying one only to find that it makes no difference.

Is your transmission always fine when it’s cold? If so, I suspect you have a hydraulic seal problem (leakage increases as fluid viscosity reduces until pump can no longer produce sufficient flow to maintain pressure against loss. Clutch slips & transmission selects limp-home mode). The problem will disappear again (temporarily) once the fluid cools down & the system resets itself.

Phil
 
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