Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.
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Thread: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Long story short is I listened to a dealer when he said Iím clear of the defect of bad guides and tensioners on my car, 6 months ago car left me stranded 1000+ miles away from home when it threw crankshaft positioning sensor and started shaking violently. Got it shipped home and went straight to a independent shop for diagnostics. They removed everything until they reached valve covers without removing the heads and any timing covers. They showed me that the lobes arenít touching the buckets, valves donít seal right and quoted me $16k+ to for repair with hope that nothing happened to to pistons or the walls. I know itís a long shot but I contacted the HQ and explained everything to them with a hope for their help with this (miracles happen right?!?!) anyway... they said that a dealer has to diagnose the issue and at that point they will be able to tell me if they will help me by covering the whole thing or 50% or non at all...understandable. So I took the car to a stealership, and after a while they reached out and want $2500 to take the heads off to further diagnose the issue. I talked to technician and he said he worked there for 10years and he never heard of timing jumping on these cars.... great start. Anyways I explained to them that itís pretty visible that the valves arenít closing and opening as they should but they said they canít see it because buckets could be seized due to no lubrication and they still need to remove the heads. At this point I donít really wanna spend $2500 for them to later say yeahh about that, sorry but youíre on your own. Iím not a certified mechanic, but pretty mechanical inclined. Thatís the story, now here is the question, any tricks to this thing to see if the valves are bent? Something I can quickly do right in front of them to prove it? I wonít have any tools with me except for inspection camera. Magnet should easily lift the bucket to see if itís seized right? Any help is appropriated. Thanks
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  3. #2
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    perhaps with head covers off, you can take out spark plugs put air hose fitting in place of spark plug cyl 1, rotate crankshaft with wrench to the point where all valves should be closed for cyl #1, connect the compressor and see 1f cylinder holds the pressure, repeat the same for other 7. If valves are bent, you should hear significant hissing in intake and/or exhaust manifolds. If, lets say, issue to do with piston rings ceased, then air should be hissing VIA open oil cap.
    2013 RRS SC, Fuji White with Almond/Mocha int. 80K ml
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  4. #3
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Good point, pressure testing the cylinders is a good idea and my fault for not mentioning in previous post that injectors have been pulled out as well and few of them broke during the removal so that would make it hard to pressure test it unless there are some plugs they can use? The dealership seems to be just taking advantage of this situation while the HQ are only saying itís my choice to pay and get diagnosed to get an unsure answer or go away... spark plugs are still in place, injectors out, valve covers off. All the timing covers are still on.
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  6. #4
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Or just measure how far the valve stem is sticking up. BTW they can see in there with a bore scope and also see the back of the valve when the intake is off.

    That being said there might be further damage inside the cylinder that cant be seen with the head in place and if i were the mechanic i would say the same thing the dealership wants to do, you would have to tear it down to see the exact extent of the damage. They(the manufacturer) are not going to commit to covering a repair until here is a complete inspection.
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  7. #5
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    With the bent valves I donít think Land Rover would bother repairing it since it would be close to the value of a new engine not to even mention if there would be damage to the pistons, that for sure would total loss in their eyes. The independent shop I took the car too knew right away, showed me the issue explained it and it was clear what was needed to be done, but the dealership havenít even connected scanning tool to see it has crankshaft positioning sensor failure stored. They didnít even popped the hood and after 3 weeks calls me to tell me they need money.. later the tech tried some trick questions about not using timing tools and doing the timing using the zip tie method. But again, worked there for 10 years and never seen the timing jump on these?! I was just curious if there is more obvious way to show them that the valves are bent since he didnít know how to inspect valves alone.
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  8. #6
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    They should have done a leakdown test or may have luck with a borescope. Harbor freight sells cheap ones if you want to purchase and look for yourself. Or someone could try lining up the timing marks to verify if timing jumped. When you went to the first shop did they replace crank position sensor before tearing into the engine? Not sure if this is an interference engine or not?
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  9. #7
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Yes its an interference engine. I have one ('10 LR4) in my place now that did the same kinda thing. And yes, the timing can indeed jump, on one camshaft alone apparently.
    With parts prices as they are, and specs scarce, we found a low mile Jag variant and had it shipped to my place. Timing and all oil seals already done.
    I'll change the front pulley and oil pan/pickup tube and put it in.
    I will have all the other parts if you need any. What bank? Driver or passenger?
    Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.-head.jpg
    Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.-pistons.jpg

    This one would not turn over by hand, with a socket on the front pulley. Borescope showed two shiny marks on pistons, so the valves said hello.
    Block and cylinders were perfect though, luckily enough. He'd need 2 pistons and one head to rebuild this one. But he decided on a used motor instead
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  10. #8
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Thanks for the replyís, unfortunately the dealer wasnít very helpful and they still insisted on removing the heads to confirm and charge me the full amount which seams kind of ridiculous to just remove the heads alone. I will be shipping the car to Europe to get it fixed as it will only cost me there about $4k to get it it repaired plus $3k shipping costs itís still a lot cheaper than to fix it here. I probably wonít see the car for 6 month and thatís gonna be the toughest part lol
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    JACK'S GRANDAD leftlanetruckin's Avatar
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    You're going to ship your car to Europe, to get an engine replaced???? Wow
    And how are they "fixing" it exactly"?
    '98 P38 HSE, with 385hp/385ft lbs of LSx under the hood. Fully functional HVAC, EAS, etc.
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  12. #10
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    Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Not replaced but repaired. And yeah I know it sounds crazy but price difference of $6-7k fixing there and $18-19k or more here makes a big difference. Parts are a lot cheaper and polish currency is cheaper than a dollar, also luckily for me i have a Land Rover mechanic that had this happen to him recently so he knows the engine pretty well considering they donít see a lot of 5.0 SC gasoline engines but mostly diesels. He fixed few of my land rovers down there already so trust is there.
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    And i have considered few options already like buying used engine for around $13k but swapping is another $4k or buying a used RRSS from an auction for around same price with high mileage and having other parts to recoup some of the money but I have no place to store it so thatís my only option at this point
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  14. #12
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    mik3ypl, I see where you coming from and, generally, it seems as viable option, but... Considering complexity of the job, i.e. digging the engine out and installing it i back in, it is pretty possible that something may go wrong, something that mechanic should remedy within reasonable amount of time, how are you going to pursue any warranty issues, that I am sure you and anyone else would like to receive with this kind of job?
    2013 RRS SC, Fuji White with Almond/Mocha int. 80K ml
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  15. #13
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    That also true, I canít just ship the car back and forth every time something breaks. From the research I have done Iíll replace everything that needs replacing, thatís all the timing parts the 4 sprockets since when timing jumps they could get out of balance, all new valves and springs etc. and whatever else while heís gonna be down there. I figured if Iíd leave the car over there for couple months and have someone use it, then anything wrong would get noticed. I really canít say at this point how will it turn out. Iíll post an update once the car is back here in the states.
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  16. #14
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    Re: Checking for bent valves in 12í RRSS.

    Quick little update from the dealer down here, I just went to the dealer to pick the car up as Iím not paying that much money for diagnostics and when I spoke to service advisor he said he wonít charge me for work preformed to the car while it was there and I asked him what kind of work did they do, he explained that he went to the car twice and stuck a borescope camera and looked at the valves so he was trying to diagnose it that way but when I opened up the hood I was shocked, when I took the engine apart I stuck normal white paper towels into openings to prefect debris falling in. Well everything is just as I left it. I have the before and after pictures showing nothing was touched and dealership lied to me and was acting like they were doing me a favor. So yeah... be careful out there
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