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Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

125K views 131 replies 36 participants last post by  rover2017 
#1 ·
I had my Front and rear diff fulids replaced last month, where I had a sample of each extracted and sent for analysis. Report came back with a very high level of Iron meaing that there was excessive wear.

Front diff had double the rate of Iron than the rear. Is there any bulletin regarding abnormal wear on the diffrentials and potential issues.

Had sent a sample of the Transfer case oil too, but that that was misplaced - so no idea what the reading of that was. The differential oils were thick and black; thick being ok since its a 75w90 oil; being that it's a gear oil, it should not be black at 50k+ miles - I would recommend folks to change this sooner than the suggested mileage.

Feel like having a magnet attached to the bottom of the diffrential to attract the iron particles as they come off so they don't recirculate causing more wear.
 
#58 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Would you describe the sound as a somewhat raspy airy sound you hear when accelerating?
It may be tough to diagnose by sound alone. When mine went on the rear it sounded like a brake shoe dragging/wheel bearing issue. I swore it was a w/b. I think they can sound different depending on how bad it is.

 
#59 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Nice one goose!!

Yes I have to agree on goose that the sound is tough to diagnose. My best description of the sound is like my HSE grew a pair of turbochargers kicking in at 35MPH and up.
 
#61 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Nice one goose!!

Yes I have to agree on goose that the sound is tough to diagnose. My best description of the sound is like my HSE grew a pair of turbochargers kicking in at 35MPH and up.
Hhhmm...that's not good, and sounds eerily like what I think I am starting to hear...but at 145K miles, I guess that's not bad if it turns out to be the case. I do have very light seepage at that rear diff seal on the front diff, so the signs are starting to point to this...bummer.
 
#60 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

This is what my rear dif plug looked like after an oil change last month with only 43,000 miles. i showed this to my rr dealer and they shrugged it off as no big deal. The front had no contamination.

Green Fashion accessory Hand Plant Rock
 
#62 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I was going through my truck's service history (especially 75K) and couldn't find differential oils ever changed. Called my service guy and he said that they are never changing differential oils if it is not locking one. They only change transfer case oil. He said something that it is closed system, so no need to change. Is this how it is supposed to be?
 
#63 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

That's not quite correct, the owner's manual states that front and rear axle fluids should be replaced every 10 years or 150K miles (and twice as often for rear locking version.) I guess that translates to "never needs change" for most owners, or at least original owners... Even though we all seem to agree that such a service interval is way too long.
 
#64 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

PJPR01, considering you squeezed out 145K out of your front diff is not bad at all compared to my non-wheeled rig at 49K.

jon1, I guess the adage "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure" may apply. Frequent fluid changes is cheap insurance IMHO. Based on this thread, I had my differential fluids changed at 45K and most likely do it at every 30K interval from now on. The oil was very black in the front while the rear was OK.
 
#65 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I wish I would have known all of this even before my front differential started making humming noise. For some reason I automatically thought that differential fluids were changed at 75K. I am now at 85K and will ask them to do the change. I am sure it is not going to fix the humming, but for sure it is not going to make it any worse. How much should front and rear differential fluid change cost at the dealer?
 
#67 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I wish I would have known all of this even before my front differential started making humming noise.
Don't beat yourself up over this as I doubt its all oil change-earlier-related. Its just my observation that after wonky suspension bushings that blow out every 40K, the diffs are the next thing to blow up prematurely on the RRS. Every dealership seems to have a nice inventory of recon'd differentials in the parts department, and dealers don't carry $1000 parts if they don't need them often. I'll bet someone $100 that your local Jeep/Chrysler dealer doesn't have as many Dana XX(pick a number) in stock--if any.

Just my opinion.
 
#66 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

You'll need about 3/4 of a quart for the front, about 1.1 quarts for the rear. It should take less than 1/2 hour for each one...an independent shop can do it just as easily. Just be sure to buy the right fluids. Both together depending on labor rates from the dealer plus fluids should be less than $150-200.

Also worth while to make sure they tighten up the drain plugs...some lesser skilled mechanics have been known not to tighten those down properly in the past.
 
#68 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

It seems that people have had problems with both front and rear diffs. I'm having my 2006 FRONT diff replaced right now (at 26K miles) because it chewed itself apart.

But the mechanic said the REAR diff seals have a very slight leak, so I'm guessing that it's starting the same problem the front had. I told him to replace the rear fluid and hopefully that will stave it off.

Has anybody been able to mitigate these problems with frequent fluid changes? It seems if you changed it often enough, the delaminated paint would eventually all be gone, before it got to the stage of ruining the diff.

Also, has replacing the diff solved everybody's problem? I'm hoping that just biting the bullet on the front diff will at least resolve this forever.
 
#69 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

hi there , first post.... but i've been a fan of this great site for a long time...
anyway i bought a couple of weeks ago a RR sport 2006 model 55K miles , and for some reason did not notice the typical whining sound that the diffs make when they are in need of replacement..!
took it to the LR dealer in Naples , for $8000 they said they could replace both diffs as they are both damaged...
i did not know anything about the infamous paint in the diffs and the car place that sold it to me thought i was joking .
is'nt there a way to get land rover to pay for this even though the waranty is up , is'nt that a manufacturing flaw?
Auto Haus in Naples(the place that sold me the vehicle) said they will pay half of $3500 witch is the real cost of replacement but still has anybody been successful in getting LR USA to pay for it...
thanks.
2006RR
 
#70 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

hi there , first post.... but i've been a fan of this great site for a long time...
anyway i bought a couple of weeks ago a RR sport 2006 model 55K miles , and for some reason did not notice the typical whining sound that the diffs make when they are in need of replacement..!
took it to the LR dealer in Naples , for $8000 they said they could replace both diffs as they are both damaged...
i did not know anything about the infamous paint in the diffs and the car place that sold it to me thought i was joking .
is'nt there a way to get land rover to pay for this even though the waranty is up , is'nt that a manufacturing flaw?
Auto Haus in Naples(the place that sold me the vehicle) said they will pay half of $3500 witch is the real cost of replacement but still has anybody been successful in getting LR USA to pay for it...
thanks.
2006RR
I had no luck with a 2006 RRS with only 25K miles. It wasn't driven much the first few yrs, so we never identified the problem til the warranty was over. I called LR North America, and they have a process for this. But it'll likely result in them refusing any assistance whatsoever.T

hey made me drive it TWICE (an hr each time just in driving) to a dealer to get inspected, then said that it was normal wear for the front diff to destroy itself aftr 25K miles. Of course it's normal when every car they make has the defect.

I think the general rule is that unless it's a serious safety issue, they have no obligation to pay for it once the warranty is over. But still, there could be other legal avenues that might work (or maybe the threat of a suit would get them to at least offer to help you). You'd also figure they would help since this is such a stupid problem that is entirely their fault---probably one of the laziest engineering errors I've ever heard of in a new car.

I wrote a certified letter to them, but I doubt that will get a response, either. Given their lazy engineering and lackluster customer service, this is the last LR/RR/Jag I'll ever buy.
 
#73 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Before jumping to conclusions, it would probably be worthwhile to find out what % of differentials actually fails...

There have been a few people on here who had them replaced, but even that % is small in terms of % of the total Online community here.

Failure at 26K is extreme...regular fluid changes at 30K seem to be doing the trick. I'm at 145k, turns out I'm not having any diff noise whatsoever, just slightly wearing tires, and there are many others north of 60K who have not had any issues.

In this case, I think you might be able to press more with the dealership, even though you are after warranty, if they are truly interested in keeping your business for a new car, they might take care of some or all of this. Worthwhile trying a continuous diplomatic press.
 
#74 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Before jumping to conclusions, it would probably be worthwhile to find out what % of differentials actually fails...

There have been a few people on here who had them replaced, but even that % is small in terms of % of the total Online community here.
Well it seems to be only certain 2006 RRS, and very frequent fluid changes could probably get around the problem.

But with normal intervals, it seems it will likely result in problems.The diff fluid from mine was a terrible color with so much metal in it that we could move it around with a magnet. And this car never went off-roading or in deep water, never towed anything, etc.
 
#75 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

For those interested, here is a quick video I took with my phone at the repair shop.

It's a magnet being moved underneath a plastic bottle containing some of the fluid they took out of the diff. And remember that the metal in the fluid is what the magnet on the drain plug couldn't attract (because it was also absolutely loaded with metal).

Not exactly a good sign when your fluid is magnetic....

 
#76 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

For those interested, here is a quick video I took with my phone at the repair shop.

It's a magnet being moved underneath a plastic bottle containing some of the fluid they took out of the diff. And remember that the metal in the fluid is what the magnet on the drain plug couldn't attract (because it was also absolutely loaded with metal).

Not exactly a good sign when your fluid is magnetic....

...and actually that fluid is from the rear diff, which isn't the one we had to replace. So you can imagine what the front was like....the fluid had huge pieces of metal (noticeable with the naked eye) in it.
 
#77 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Based on what I've read regarding the differentials on our vehicles, I had my front & rear diff fluids changed today. Going into this I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong, no howling or screeching noise. Just wanted to be safe though…..

I'm right at 88k and this is the first time the diff fluid has been changed. I am not in the VIN range with the flaking black paint (that is good news). The old fluid from both the front and rear was black and thick (not sure what to make of this). Sounds like some individuals would say this is a concern, while others would say this is the norm for our vehicles.

I did confirm both drain plugs are magnetic, both the front and rear were covered with metal shavings. Both plugs had the same amount of metal shavings, and from pictures I have seen, it was consistent with what others have shown.

Used just a little less than two quarts of LRN7591 (purchased it from the dealer), used .61 liters for the front, and 1.1 liters for the rear. I was a little concerned that when both diffs were filled-up a little leaked out of the fill plug holes. I was not expecting that???? Maybe it was the method used to place the fluid in the diff that caused this; an electronic automobile fluid pump with a rubber injection hose was used. Was there some splatter, and this was just the residue dripping out?

Since the change I’ve taken my RRS on a test drive; call me nuts, but I would swear the ride feels different. It feels more smooth, like the vehicle was struggling before and now it is not. Plus it sounds quieter. Who knows, I might be imagining things……
 
#79 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

I'm so thankful for this forum. I just wish I would have found this thread a few weeks earlier and I could have had my dif fluid changed. My 08 RRS was purchased 9/1/12, it was a 1 owner w/42k, all maintenance done by LR. One month later at 46k (yes I drove a ton!) I'm hearing a very strange whining noice above 35-40mph or higher. The diffs both look totally fine, no leaks, nothing that would physically make me think there is a problem. Highway speed it's very noticable to me with windows up. It makes me sick to think I'll have to replace the diff already. I'll start with the fluid and go from there. Is there a way to rule out the diff? If it makes the noise in neutral could it be a bearing/tires? Last question...if it is the front or rear diff can I get it from some where other than LR? Or dealer only has the reman'd units?
 
#80 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

The humming noise on my truck has been getting worse. It sounds like brakes would been dragging all the time. I am not feeling anything out of ordinary while driving though. Still not seeing any kind of fluid leakage. My next service (90K) is coming up soon and I asked for a quote of replacing front differential. This is what I got:

Text Font Line

How does it look like?
 
#81 · (Edited)
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

The humming noise on my truck has been getting worse. It sounds like brakes would been dragging all the time. I am not feeling anything out of ordinary while driving though. Still not seeing any kind of fluid leakage. My next service (90K) is coming up soon and I asked for a quote of replacing front differential. This is what I got:

View attachment 12785
How does it look like?
well j0n1, i feel your pain ........

here is for compairason purposes the estimate that was handed to me 2 month ago after i had the car checked for eventual problems that had to be fixed....

their conclusion was that the 2 differentials had to be replaced and without any explanation was given the estimate of : $8,651.28 for parts and labor...!!

of course i did not know then the " infamous paint in the diff " problem.

i showed the estimate to the dealer that sold me the car : Autohaus of Naples and he could not believe it of course , he then proposed to me to have them changed for

re-manufactured ones from RoverLand parts and with AutoHaus paying half the cost i ended up with an out of pocket of $2000 for both including labor.

still it is not normal that i have to pay for a defect known to Rover ....

i will in a few days start an email / telephone and snail mail campaign in order to get my money back from Land Rover USA.




2006RR
 
#82 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Dropped my truck for 90K service. Now they are saying that the humming noise is coming from transfer case. Estimate to get it replaced is $2,725 (parts $1,900 + labor $825). Does this sound reasonable? Is it common to have a transfer case issues with 2007 model? I am dealing with LR Frisco. Would there be any other places in DFW area that you would recommend?
 
#83 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Extremely unlikely....these things are practically bullet proof. I'd start with a transfer case fluid change before dropping the money to change it...but you could always tell them that if it doesn't solve the problem, they put the old one back in free of charge since it is their diagnosis...
 
#85 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

This is the contamination my rear diff magnetic plug had on it while changing the oil at about 45,000 miles. The front wasn't half as bad.
 
#86 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Just in case I let them know about known front differential issue that have been discussed over here. This is what they responded: "I’m familiar with that notice. Evidently this noise in the transfer case has gotten louder over the past couple months." I am really hoping that they are making right diagnose.
 
#87 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Just came back from having diff and t-case fluid changed. If you're near the DFW area, highly highly recommend Texas Track Works. Although they mostly do track cars, I've known them for a while and they love working on the rover. Anyways, bought all the fluids myself from either online or Ft. Worth dealer and had them change front/rear diff, t-case, and engine oil for $125. They saw slightly more than usual metal particles on the mag drain plug for the front diff, rear was very minimal, t-case looked great. Front fluid was slightly darker than rear, but he said nothing to worry about. If I had owned the car since new, I'd definitely change diff fluid more frequently, probably 30k for first change, then 60k for the rest like I've heard someone on the forum recommend.
 
#88 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Dan - interesting place, cheaper than doing it my self if I factor in my time, but that's the only time I can pretend to be a mechanic \ grease monkey - $125.00 – Pre-track service and inspection. Some of the services included are: motor, transmission, and differential fluid change; brake fluid flush and bleed, coolant flush, alignment inspection, corner weight check (for vehicles with adjustable suspension), full tech inspection (does not include fluids or filters)

At 98K, but going to change my diff and xfer case again for the hell of it to see what kind of wear I'm getting after 12k, will send the oil to the labs to gauge the wear. Shop will help me chnage the Transmission pan etc .. will be doing it next weekend or so ... will report back the findings ...
 
#90 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes


Above are the pictures of my recent differential fluid change, done today @73K miles. 1st pic is the front diff. plug. The 2nd pic is the rear diff. The 3rd is the rear plug differential plug.I think the plugs look good and not to "fuzzy". My mechanic did ask me if there was ever work done on the rear differential, due to the fact that it looks like it was sealed. Is it possible my dealer put on silicone to prevent leaks with out telling me??? Total charge was $190. I thought it would have been cheaper.
 
#91 ·
re: Front & Rear Diff Issues + Fluid Changes

Hey i just changed my fluids as well at 71000 miles, my plugs looked almost identical to yours , do you hear any humming whining when you slightly press on the accelerator going 38-40 mph? what about at high speeds like 75-85 mph? What model year is your range?
 
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