Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ??? - Page 2
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Thread: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

  1. #16
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    February 13th, 2018
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    I don't think there will be any harm in driving with the front drive shaft removed. The earlier versions (Series 3) have no permanent 4 wheel drive and drive rear wheel most (if not all) the time. The transfer case is not any different in principal design and the rear drive shaft and axle are near identical to series verhicles. The diffs are, I know I swapped then in and out of Series vehicles at several occasions.

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  3. #17
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Wimbledon UK
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    Agree with above. Prior to Range Rover transmission they were effectively all rear wheel drive but using a simple dog clutch to engage front propshaft and so axle to provide 4x4. Because they didn't have a centre differential this facility was not used on high traction surfaces to avoid transmission conflict, the same as you get with locked VC.
    In reality, any 4x4 vehicle with lever to engage "4x4" is the same, just rear plus front when needed, and no permanent 4 driven wheels.

    But just as relevant to these transmission with centre differential, if you have one axle with no traction then the VC will become actively locked and all the available torque will be leveraged through the other propshaft and axle, each (front or rear) has to be able to accept the total output from the engine in this circumstance, as such being rated to accommodate that.

    They even warn, as far as I remember, in drivers manual about applying maximum torque if front axle is stuck and steering is locked fully to left or right as the torque rating of the front CV joints diminish like this.
    It's most likely that the front CV are generally the limitation in the whole transmission as they crack the inner track if overload takes place.

    Running without the front propshaft is far less risk than siezed VC.

  4. #18
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    Hello All.
    Thank you for you vote of confidence in keeping me from burning this car down haha
    I had to step away for a few and work on something else.

    One poster said to make sure it is not serviseable. Are these even serviceable?
    If the VC is seized, don't I need to replace it?

    I think I am going to purchase a used VC (if mine is not serviceable) and figure it out.

    I have another vehicle. The point of getting the Range Rover was not to put stupid miles on my Tow vehicle. I have yet to be able to drive my Rover since I got it a year ago. Just been having to replace things 1 at a time. I fix something, and then something else is broken. It really is a nice looking ride and in very good shape. I am just tired of things breaking or just not working
    1989 Classic

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  6. #19
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    Also so I am clear, If I remove the front driveshaft, All my noises and grinds should go away if my VC was bad?
    I don't plan on driving far.
    1989 Classic

  7. #20
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    Correct, removing the front driveshaft (UK propshaft) will remove the VC completely from the drive train. I the VC is bad you will find the car will drive normally with the propshaft removed. If it drives normally you can drive forever with the propshaft removed, you just won't have 4wd

  8. #21
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    As confirmed by JS5D it'll be ok to do that.

    But as a check for VC, it'll drive ok without front driveshaft if VC is ok too. You should as you've posted loose the bad noises if the VC is the cause.

    To make sure you don't get a misdiagnosis though, I'd still advise you to check definitively the VC action to avoid you sourcing and paying for a replacement unnecessarily.

    To satisfy yourself, go with the "lift one front wheel and put a lever into the joint on front of transmission" that's at the first knuckle of the front driveshaft, it turns relatively easily at that point as you're not working through the axle gearing to a disadvantage. If it's siezed then you'll bust a gut without being able to rotate it.
    It's a critical point that will define which way you go from there.

  9. #22
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    To answer question regarding serviceable status.

    As far as I know the mechanical structure is ok to be used again, hence a return core is part of the deal. It's the liquid that if overheated to extreme fails to a permanent solid status causing the lockup.

    You could loosely describe it as like a meat mincer, consisting of alternative plates linked to front or rear output shaft. Left to their own structure they'd rotate freely and have no effect as they don't touch. Filling the casing with the fluid causes the plates to be immersed at which point rotation between the two sets will need to shear the fluid to move independent of each opposed set. The fluid characteristic allows a slow shearing to take place, but as speed/torque builds across the interface it moves to solid state (non newtonian character) and when relieved of difference, drops back to its normal status.
    I was informed this is a "dilatant" property, ie dilates when left without stress.

    Speaking to someone who races mazda mx5 miata? Which use this type of diff, they drain and refill with different fluid spec to offer a track orientated lockup as more aggressive than plain street use.

    There are it seems people that have facility to renew the fluid but depends on unit familiarity as to whether they'd look at it.

  10. #23
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    Thank you for that write up. That is very informative.
    Assuming I go and test the VC as you mentioned and I cannot turn the shaft, I will remove the VC from the transfer case.
    Will it be visually obvious where the problem is?
    I am looking at a VC for sale and I don't know how to tell if it is good or bad
    1989 Classic

  11. #24
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    I just did those tests and it is pretty conclusive that it is the VC.
    Next I am going to pull off the front driveline.
    How bad is it to drive with only the rear? Especially with bigger tires. Not huge, but slightly bigger than stock.
    I've read about people driving with a broken VC for tons of miles. How is that possible?
    1989 Classic

  12. #25
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    To drive it with no front shaft in all honesty you'd not even notice, unless you put it on a surface that needed the traction of 4x4.

    Personally I try to be smooth with any transmission I drive, both auto and manual, as I just don't like breaking things. But I do expect one in good condition to be used accordingly, so with that proviso I'd be comfortable operating it in rear wheel drive configuration only.

    What I do as generally good practice on these is always when engaging drive or switching to reverse and back, apply the parking brake prior to shifting as it stops any torque shunting through the ongoing driven couplings and giving them a hard time.

    Testing for failure on another unit. I've only tested in situ so lacking experience of a naked sample. They don't as far as I know show any failure signs from looking at the unit though.
    To test it out of vehicle you've got to hold one side and turn the other to replicate how you've just tested yours. You'll need to lever it but they do turn relatively easily when good. You'll know as soon as you feel it, it's just a slow constantly yealding drag as it rotates.

    Is there out of vehicle test routine published in Rave manuals?

  13. #26
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    I removed the front drive shaft.
    I lost the grumble sound in the rear.
    I also gained a terrible moan from my power steering. Bubbles (kinda foamy red) in my PS reservoir.
    Took out for a drive and could net get a couple hundred yards. Steering was ALL OVER the place.

    Now what the #@$% is wrong with it? Sounds like air in the lines??
    I have noticed a lot of leaking under this thing
    1989 Classic

  14. #27
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    That's the corrosion reduction system sir, mostly factory fitted but can vary.

    In all seriousness, top up the reservoir and it'll be ok. If level drops the oil will foam and the system moans like hell. No damage is done.

    No corrective action required but topping up the level, it'll de aerate itself and go quiet again.

  15. #28
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    Gotcha
    Prob will end up replacing all the power steering components
    1989 Classic

  16. #29
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    February 18th, 2008
    Location
    Portland, Maine
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    There's a simple procedure to bleed the power steering. Look it up in the WSM.
    Kevin
    88 RRC "Audrey"

  17. #30
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Wheel bearings?? Diff? or ???

    I think Ive got leaking hoses, pump, etc....
    Just gonna replace.
    I'll look up how to bleed system and do it after I get new stuff
    1989 Classic

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