Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv
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Thread: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER
    Join Date
    June 7th, 2017
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    SLC, Ut
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    Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    Hey everyone!
    Long time lurker and first time post… well 2nd because I’m reposting this again because the 1st one didn’t post.
    Anyways, I have a 1995 Range Rover Classic with a 3.9 engine that I just did a complete topend on it. Replaced the camshaft with a Crower 50299, Crane cams lifters, Cleveite cam bearings, Edlebrock 7828 Performer-Link timing chain, new Ford 19lbs injectors, and a new water pump.

    Everything went together pretty easy for this less than shade tree mechanic. Set it at standard timing and buttoned everything up.
    Now the darn thing won’t start unless the timing is seriously advanced, which the rpms will redline unless the engine is turned off or I retard the timing down to about 18 degrees ATDC. My plug are black from running really rich, which I’m thinking it’s reving so high due to all the fuel being dumped into the system.
    Ive checked the timing 10 times or more over the last 5 days; Markings on my dampener have not moved whatsoever. Lined right up with TDC with cylinder #1.

    CTS reads 3.6 ohms cold
    Spare CTS reads 3.1 ohms cold
    FTS reads 3.2 ohms cold.

    The MAF is working, tested it via https://www.actproducts.co.uk/2011/l...78771972656250
    I’m just at a loss at what to do. Only other issue I’m having is I keep pulling my distributor mechanical weight springs off the pins while trying to change timing via distributor.

    Please help!
    Cheers!!

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  3. #2
    SENIOR ROVER
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    June 11th, 2016
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    northern va 22003
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    1,374

    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    either cam was unintentionally set a tooth off, or the distributor needs better setting to include a good look at the shaft and the counter weights.
    2k p38 4.6
    95 lwb 4.6
    01 d2 4.0

  4. #3
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    November 30th, 2007
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    Grand Haven, Michigan
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    I agree with 95classiclwb, I had a similar condition on a 4.2L rebuild and could not start. I ended up having to reposition the distributor drive gear a tooth or two. I cannot recall if it was a turn clockwise or counter clockwise. Hope this makes sense.
    Tom McCarthy

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  6. #4
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    Thanks to 95classiclwb and rovertm for responding. Turns out I assembled the throttle assy wrong and it was causing the engine to throttle up. Found that out after taking my front cover off to double check the timing chain and just happen to come across a picture while looking for ideas. It was a properly assembled throttle linkage. Go figure.

    Engine still runs super rich. just got 150 miles out of a tank of gas. usually get 200 but it's a start in the right direction. Engine is timed correctly. Starts great when cold, runs awesome and i can feel the power of the new cam till it warms up and then is hard to start. And only does when I advance the timing a bit. While driving and coming to a stop, idle fluctuates wildly high and low, and will stall unless i put the transmission into neutral. Exhaust gas is very rich.

    Thanks for any advice and input that can be given. I'm at my wits end.
    cheers!

  7. #5
    FRESHMAN ROVER Razorbeam's Avatar
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    Quote Originally Posted by hemmos View Post
    Thanks to 95classiclwb and rovertm for responding. Turns out I assembled the throttle assy wrong and it was causing the engine to throttle up. Found that out after taking my front cover off to double check the timing chain and just happen to come across a picture while looking for ideas. It was a properly assembled throttle linkage. Go figure.

    Engine still runs super rich. just got 150 miles out of a tank of gas. usually get 200 but it's a start in the right direction. Engine is timed correctly. Starts great when cold, runs awesome and i can feel the power of the new cam till it warms up and then is hard to start. And only does when I advance the timing a bit. While driving and coming to a stop, idle fluctuates wildly high and low, and will stall unless i put the transmission into neutral. Exhaust gas is very rich.

    Thanks for any advice and input that can be given. I'm at my wits end.
    cheers!

    Does the ECU throw any codes? If the O2 sensor input is disconnected, the car will run closed loop and default to very rich (safe) fueling. You can get Rovergauge software and a cable if you have a laptop. This will show you the ECU's reading of the air/fuel ratio and you can determine if the computer "knows" its running rich.
    The next suspect would be an air restriction. The stepper motor on the back of the plenum can be finicky which can cause the erratic idling you're describing. Also, there's a base idle set screw on top of the plenum, near the throttle butterfly. You might need to reset the base idle for the new cam, not sure.
    The injectors might be worth checking out. I installed a set of the yellow Ford 19# injectors and they took a while to fully work for some reason. They're working well now, but when I first installed them they were acting up. Should get a little better gas mileage on them.
    If the plugs are fouled, I would swap them out for some basic copper champions that are gaped evenly.

    Hope this helps, I just went through hell and back with my ignition and fuel injection getting mine to run right. It still takes forever to start, but it always does.
    1992 Range Rover Country SWB

  8. #6
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    It sounds like it's not "seeing" the temperature as it warms, a few on here before have encountered the same.

    Can you get a hot reading to compare from sensor?

    Also check the plugs on loom to the temperature sensor as mistakes have been made by switching accidentally two plugs from loom to sensor around that area with consequential no temp input to ecu resulting. I forget which two will reach each other to cause the confusion.

    That is very rich running as I'm getting avg 300 miles to a tank of fuel on a 3.9 auto.

  9. #7
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    Just checked my one, it's the injector plug for cylinder number one that comes out of loom at same place as temperature sensor that gives confusion as they will reach and swap with ease.

    Looks like nothing is wrong visibly ! So check them thoroughly.

  10. #8
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    Thanks to everyone for the help! Figured the whole dam thing out...

    STUPID BRAND NEW FUEL INJECTORS were leaking. Thanks to Razorbeam for getting me to think.

    I put the old ones back in and she runs just great!!!!!

    RRLondon... you seriously get 300 mile to a tank???!??!?!?! that is crazy! I wonder if it's the altitude. I'm at 4800ft. lol

    CHEERS!!!!

  11. #9
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Top end rebuild with cam... No start unless very adv

    I've a setup of ignition and mixture that has a bias that runs counter to conventional thinking, it's not radical but it does seem to work with std components.

    The absolute peak was 327 miles on one tank, which ran dry and was part of a long continuous journey. But it came to us about 6yrs ago with a complete mess of a setup which took a while to sort. At that point it would only get to about 250 miles and more likely 230.

    I was considering writing a dedicated thread about that specifically to see if it could in any way be verified by someone else doing similar. I can obviously measure what I'm getting but other samples would give more weight to it if results were comparable.

    It fires to start easily, hot or cold. We use it quite hard too, often loaded up and running 80 to 90 mph across France on a trip. Although we don't live at altitude, we take it to the alps with peak operating of 2000 meters, fine there too but obviously no specific fuel usage for elevation as anything used going up is somewhat balanced by coming down again.

    Also it's often running 10 or 15% ethanol mix in France as indicated on their fuel pumps.

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