93 Died on the highway no start
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Thread: 93 Died on the highway no start

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    September 29th, 2016
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    Tulsa, OK
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    93 Died on the highway no start

    Was driving home... just got on the highway... and bam! Was that a backfire?! No acceleration... couple more hesitations and
    I shut it off and curbed it. Wouldn't start when I tried it and still wont. It just turns over and burps every 6 or so cycles, sometimes will bump over once... I have driven this car for the past 21,000 miles, has 144,500 on the clock and this is the first time it left me stranded.

    Took compression cold starting with the odd bank, got about 3~5 compression strokes (I think).

    8-130 7-120
    6-115 5-112
    4-132 3-120
    2-135 1-120

    Am I out of the woods mechanically? Was thinking my timing chain might have broken, but I am getting compression on all cylinders... Thought about the head gaskets, been loosing coolant at about a half gallon every 750-1000 miles. Maybe 6 & 5 are the leakers?

    I put new Magnecore wires on it, new Bosch coil and installed new plugs. Previous owner had allegedly replaced the distributer, vacuum advance, cap and rotor, they look to be Atlantic British (red rotor and their cap). I swapped with a used genuine Lucas rotor, no dice...tried a different cap, still no dice. So, I checked the coil and shocked myself... put the redtop battery on the charger and went to bed..tried in the morning with no luck too.

    Had an extra used MAF, tried that... why not? No change.

    I'll be looking to swap ignitor chips tomorrow, but will probably try to figure out how to bench test the extra one I have. Its one of the kits that mounts the chip away from the distributer. Prolly will take a stab at bench testing the MAF too.

    I even pulled the tube off the vacuum advance and tried to actuate the diaphragm. It would move and hold vacuum for a few second but immediately leak off, this normal?

    I know its probably something simple I am overlooking... or... is this just Lucas messing with me?
    Cheers,

    -TD

    1993 LWB Roman Bronze 133,000 Miles

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  3. #2
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    April 15th, 2014
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    Wimbledon UK
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    It should start and run on those pressure readings, maybe not the best but sufficient. Some basic field checks to do

    Take off dizzy cap and crank it to see if you've lost cam chain, rotor obviously should be going round when turning motor.

    Get a screwdriver and put it onto fuel tank neck, put your ear on screwdriver and get someone to turn on ignition (don't crank it) you should hear fuel pump run for about five seconds then shut off as it primes the fuel rail.

    If its not running fuel pump, take out air filter and spray some ea-z-start into it to see if it'll run, will confirm you're looking at fuel supply.

    Male sure you have spark at both king lead arriving at dizzy, and then make sure you can also see it at a plug lead or two.

    Consider failure of King lead, it'll stop it dead. Plug leads you just get misfire. Even though new and it's rare, you can get a failure there that will stop you.

    If fuel pump doesn't run, you can use a jumper in the fuse box to go from cigarette lighter supply side to fuel pump fuse supply side. This will bypass ecu, relay etc switching of pump toughie you a quick and dirty get-you-home fix. It'll be ignition controlled but should be debugged later to correct fault. Let us know how you get on.

  4. #3
    SENIOR ROVER
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    June 11th, 2016
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    northern va 22003
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    you have established spark at coil, do you have spark at spark plugs? how is your fuel pressure? when was the last time you replaced fuel filter?
    test procedures for complete ignition system including amplifier/module can be found on rave, do not rule out pick up coil failure. this is the plate inside distributor.

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  6. #4
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    The rotor arm is spinning.

    I ordered a new set of genuine copper plugs, rotor, and cap just to rule them out as the culprit.

    I forgot to mention that I do have the RoverGauge software...The fuel pump would run on command and continuously. I will be getting a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to verify good pressure. I have heard of vacuum causing the tank to collapse, might look into that...

    Also used the RoverGauge to check the TPS and it gave a 0% to 100% reading without jumping around...
    Cheers,

    -TD

    1993 LWB Roman Bronze 133,000 Miles

  7. #5
    SOPHOMORE ROVER Mikieman's Avatar
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    February 19th, 2016
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    Don’t know if this will help
    But on my 92
    If I have the gas cap on too tight
    It will cause a vacuum lock
    It will just stop running
    I now just leave it a little loose
    When it first happened it took me a for a loop
    As it was running great
    im an american i dont speak english

    91 classic..it is now parts

    92 lse... not a bucket of rust

  8. #6
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    March 5th, 2019
    Posts
    6

    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    I had the identical problem happen to me last year with a 1995 RRC, it was the ignition module/amplifier. I was driving along exactly as you were and it just died and i rolled to the side of the road.

  9. #7
    SENIOR ROVER
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    Quote Originally Posted by TulsaDiesel View Post
    The rotor arm is spinning.

    I ordered a new set of genuine copper plugs, rotor, and cap just to rule them out as the culprit.

    I forgot to mention that I do have the RoverGauge software...The fuel pump would run on command and continuously. I will be getting a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to verify good pressure. I have heard of vacuum causing the tank to collapse, might look into that...

    Also used the RoverGauge to check the TPS and it gave a 0% to 100% reading without jumping around...
    the vacuum collapse is a myth, what really happens is the tank does not breathe and vacuum locks and pump fails to pick up, until vacuum is released, so many other issues need to align correctly for it to happen, purge valve fail safe mode is open, fuel caps breathe, other emissions lines are always open fuel pump needs to be very fast with out return, fuel temp must rise higher than atmosphere pressure.
    if all of those line up and close then you have your concern.

  10. #8
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    Quote Originally Posted by lufc123456 View Post
    I had the identical problem happen to me last year with a 1995 RRC, it was the ignition module/amplifier. I was driving along exactly as you were and it just died and i rolled to the side of the road.
    Had a similar die on the freeway except mine were the wires running to the amp got toasted by the exhaust manifold.
    Kevin
    88 RRC "Audrey"

  11. #9
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    Well this sucks...

    I tried swapping in the ignition module relocation kit and I no longer have any spark at the coil. The test by holding king lead to block shows nothing.

    Looking at the wiring diagram for the coil, I cant tell how 12V is actually supposed to get to it...

    Of the 4 posts on the coil I have it wired as such:

    Positive side:
    Capacitor
    One leg of Diode ERR4019

    Negative side:
    White wire from MAF loom
    Other leg of Diode ERR4019

    Is the white wire going to the MAF loom supposed to be 12V switched?

    Using diode check on the Fluke I got OL one direction and 0.5V the other, both legs. Not sure if this is correct.

    I also don't have 12V at the coil with the key on or off, positive or negative side. I checked all the fuses and they are good.

    Is there a way to bench test the ignition module?
    Cheers,

    -TD

    1993 LWB Roman Bronze 133,000 Miles

  12. #10
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    Wire into loom of MAF is usually pulse feed to ecu. So when running it gives a count to ecu for engine speed.

    I'll look at mine later to give more detail, but coil ignition usually work by supply to positive of +12v from ignition circuit so that you can switch motor on and off. You can arrange temporary supply for this straight from battery if you suspect key switch.

    Earth to coil is the line switched by ignition module for firing, cut the earth continuity and the coil produces a spark, establish earth and the coil is replenished.

  13. #11
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    The power feed to the ignition module from inside the alternator loom has to be run to the coil if using the relocation kit. This took me longer to figure out than it should have. I went ahead and grabbed a parts store cap and rotor to do testing, but it still would not run!

    I thought maybe I stabbed the distributor wrong when I put it back from fitting the dummy ignition module. Turns out I had stabbed it wrong, as in not all the way in... which sheared the cam gear...

    Luckily I have a spare, but I wasted my weekend hunting a bone head fake news "electrical vault" and then really mucked it up.

    I guess this is my chance to replace the timing chain and front seal...
    Cheers,

    -TD

    1993 LWB Roman Bronze 133,000 Miles

  14. #12
    SOPHOMORE ROVER Mikieman's Avatar
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    Fake news
    Electric vault
    Sounds like you don’t need any help
    Mucking it up
    Your doing a good job all on your own
    I don’t see why you would be asking
    For assistance
    Since you feel you know how to fix it already
    So
    Fix it
    im an american i dont speak english

    91 classic..it is now parts

    92 lse... not a bucket of rust

  15. #13
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    August 20th, 2006
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    I had something similar with the backfire (which was caused by air leaks) which took out the MAF. Just thought worth mentioning. Good luck with the repair.

  16. #14
    Premium Member OkieRover's Avatar
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    Newcastle, Oklahoma USA
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    Don't get down on yourself. You did a great job diagnosing and chasing the issues. It came down to a mechanical failure. You did the easy inexpensive stuff first and moved to the harder more expensive. Good on you mate.
    Okierover.com/blog
    1993 Range Rover LWB
    2003 Discovery II SE (R.I.P. wrecked)

  17. #15
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    September 29th, 2016
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    Tulsa, OK
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    Re: 93 Died on the highway no start

    Timing chain, cover, and gear replacement went well. Everything was stripped off the front of the engine and cleaned up before reassembly. I went ahead and inspected the oil pump, gears, and bypass valve while I was in there. Everything looked good, reassembled with petroleum jelly. The lower end gasket kit came from Turner Engineering and seemed to have everything and more than I needed. There still is a steady stream of oil coming from the oil pump area. Could be a crush washer not properly seated or perhaps I missed an o-ring? Are there any o-rings on the timing cover or oil pump block?

    Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement everyone. The original no start issue seemed to stem from the ignition module or cap and rotor as all have been replaced. Good to know it wasn't a mechanical issue (originally), just annoyed with the leak now... Best bet I will be carrying an extra ignition module, cap & rotor, and coil from now on.
    Cheers,

    -TD

    1993 LWB Roman Bronze 133,000 Miles

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