**INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring - Page 2
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Thread: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

  1. #16
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    never seen anyone claim they've confirmed the diagram independently [either correctly or showing there's an error] so where has the information for the pin outs come from? That's a rhetorical question because it can only come from RAVE, which of course rendered the whole amended diagram's/talk of 'metering' redundant [for me anyway] which was my point to Marty if the looms match then the pin outs probably are as disco II/RAVE.
    Larry S
    1995 4.6 HSE

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  3. #17
    davewp38
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Then here is a rhetorical answer, Larry: Who cares where it came from as long as it is now (finally) correct ??

    [In fact.... as though it matters... it is from several sources, athough I did not actually realise only 'independently verified' data was allowed here !! Overall it is usually best to provide constructive criticisms rather than simply decry others' postings ?]

    Also unimportant is that RAVE is wrong about this, giving a wire colour as Orange when it is actually Black - So perhaps LR just forgot to have it 'independently verifed' ?! (& also to add the actual signal designations... ?):-
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring-cdheadandchangercorrected.jpg  

  4. #18
    LEGACY VENDOR marty_nz's Avatar
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Right... I have been out to the RR and double checked...

    The wire colours are the same as my information. There is NO orange wire in the loom at the head unit end, it is black.

    I am a bit frustrated this all of this is causing so much aggravation... I meant for this to be some helpful info for other owners to help demystify what everything actually does on the later models. Yes, you can "Go and look in RAVE" but that's about as much use as a chocolate teapot if you don't know what you're looking for. Yes, it shows what pin 'X' and 'Y' wires go to on what connector, and what the wire colour is SUPPOSED to be - but it doesn't actually list the functions of each wire.

    Whilst it is possible to work out fairly easily for some things -speaker wiring etc - (though RAVE doesn't state that in the front doors, BOTH sets of wiring ends up being the same colour for LH/RH front doors...), Some wiring functions aren't quite so clear, and are not mentioned in the written blurbs about the circuit operations.

    The searching I did for the CD-Changer wiring led to not a lot of useful info. I used the information from RAVE as far as what each connector pin goes to what, and wire colouring - but in my spreadsheet, I wanted to actually put in what each wire DID... and as I don't have the factory stereo, or CD changer anymore - I can't get a meter or a scope out and go "C1354, pin 20, purple wire IS definitely +12V" or "C1354, pin 13, red wire, IS definitely Audio R +ve"

    Which is why I've asked that if anyone actually has tested this before.

    I've tried to collate information from the 'net, and as previously stated in the other thread on CD stacker/Ipod wiring, that the original Wikipedia data shows the pin functions for the CD changer mini ISO connector of:

    Pin 13: Data in (bus)
    Pin 14: Data out
    Pin 15: +12V permanent
    Pin 16: +12v switched
    Pin 17: Data Ground
    Pin 18: Audio Ground
    Pin 19: Audio Left
    Pin 20: Audio Right


    Other forums I have looked on have shown that there are some discrepancies there, and the pin functions are actually:

    Pin 13: Audio Left +ve
    Pin 14: Audio Right +ve
    Pin 15: Ground
    Pin 16: Audio Left -ve
    Pin 17: Audio Right -ve
    Pin 19: Data Bus
    Pin 20: Constant 12V


    As you can see, there is quite a difference in what the original information I found said and what other sources have shown... my reason for asking if someone has previously tested this is to double check that the information I am trying to collate is now actually correct. I believe it is, and if I could test it fully myself, then I would. Neither the P38 or Disco II RAVE states what each wire is used for - merely just the pin numbers and supposed wire colours.

    I was originally not going to even include the CD-stacker info as I didn't need it, and I wasn't sure I could be bothered looking it all up and trying to decipher it, as it wasn't something I was ever going to use... And if I'd known it would cause this much controversy, then I possibly wouldn't have bothered!

    I now believe that all of the data in the pdf file is correct. HOWEVER, if someone finds that there is an error or omission, then please let me know, and I will amend/update it as required. I claim no responsibility if you blow your stereo/car/house/city up by using the information I have provided, but it is correct and appears to be working fine on my 2001 Vogue.

    Good day to all,
    Marty
    ------------------------------------------------
    '01 4.6 Vogue Black/Lightstone "Snog" -- Bought Jan 2012
    '99 4.6 HSE Cobar Blue/Lightstone -- Sold March 2009
    '95 4.6 HSE Epsom Green/Tan -- Traded June 2008
    http://p38webshop.co.uk

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  6. #19
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    well, no need to get frustrated. The info is there however (discoII/RAVE)
    **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring-1a.jpg
    from my point of view the wiki info has been the red herring here, the I bus is a 1 wire serial comm's so that doesn't make sense when wiki then showed 3 serial's. whilst it maybe true that you can't scope or meter the wires given in your example to comfirm they are those wire's, you also can't say they aren't the wires as described either and you have to start/trust something. On the other thread the OP pretty much had the wires and descriptions pretty much correct, just the info in the I bus was missing.
    Larry S
    1995 4.6 HSE

  7. #20
    davewp38
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    As you can tell Marty as useful as it can be I don't have a lot of faith in RAVE/ETM at times either, probably because I have seen much more useful & accurate data from other manufacturers.. and which is a great pity because so many P38 problems are electrical/electronic.

    When using RAVE diagrams there may be anomalies/errors at times, and I wonder 'did LR not have some kind of feedback process for correcting and/or clarifying these' ?? (Also rhetorical...)

    Unfortunately just one such error can lead us (all) to think 'What the **** ?' and/or guesswork -'is this the right diagram ?'- and so on.... but thanks to this Forum and folks with such a methodological and detailed approach as your own we can ultimately defeat this !!

    For example the orange/black wire issue arose from Chis64, the other OP who noted it (by examination) in his thread below:

    https://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-r...face-ipod.html

    Again what matters most is that we all arrived at the correct info, and in spite of RAVE's vagueness ??....


    [Sorry, Larry, I still don't know/accept why when working on a P38 I would then have to refer/compare to another RAVE ETM , although actually for the Disco in order to find the written 'blurb' above (albeit with those different connector numbers..) when someone at LR could simply have added this info to the P38 RAVE ETM in about 10 minutes (and also hopefully correctly..) !?]

  8. #21
    LEGACY VENDOR marty_nz's Avatar
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Hi Larry,

    I'm only frustrated over all the to-ing and fro-ing about where information is, and where it isn't.

    The Wikipedia information is exactly what threw me on this case. I admit, openly, that my information in the original PDF was wrong - due to the information I could find at the time. Thanks for posting the information from RAVE - I didn't know it actually described it like that in the Disco II RAVE - I had a brief look there, but didn't find what you've just posted. My mistake - again.

    However, my other point is, that originally I said that if people had known/found errors then to let me know and I'd correct it - and it's taken until now for someone (yourself) to find/post that RAVE data, when there have been posts back and forth, and occasional snarky comments - when if someone, anyone, had posted ages ago "hey, your CD changer data is wrong - there's actually full operation details in the Disco II RAVE" then I feel a lot of the back and forth could have been circumvented.

    The thing that twigged me to re-look at the CD changer data was the other thread on it, because I didn't fully believe the Wiki data to start with, but at the time hadn't delved that deeply into the wiring for it, and the pinouts in the other thread made more sense to me, and hence wanted to validate it. Yet nobody in that thread posted any conclusive information (like you have just done) to back up any findings or theories. I want to keep any information I try to provide current and accurate, but as mentioned that fact that my CD-changer situation is non existant - it was never high on my priority list to spend hours researching it, like I have done with the DSP amp connections - as that was more pertinent to my situation at the time.

    I think we can all agree that that data you've now posted is conclusive. It also matches the updated PDF attached to my recent post, and I think we can finally say that this case is well and truely closed.

    Hopefully others will find any/all data found, posted, shared useful in the future...

    Marty
    ------------------------------------------------
    '01 4.6 Vogue Black/Lightstone "Snog" -- Bought Jan 2012
    '99 4.6 HSE Cobar Blue/Lightstone -- Sold March 2009
    '95 4.6 HSE Epsom Green/Tan -- Traded June 2008
    http://p38webshop.co.uk

  9. #22
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    hi Marty, i commended your info before and i'm not/wasn't going to go through that looking to pick holes, it was only the other thread that led to this info coming to light, i'm not sure how i can raise an issue, respond to a post or in fact disagree without over reaction or thinking i'm making 'snarky' comments, i'm not - i said do the looms match, that's all, if it match's it's likely RAVE is more or less worth trusting.
    Larry S
    1995 4.6 HSE

  10. #23
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by davewp38 View Post

    [Sorry, Larry, I still don't know/accept why when working on a P38 I would then have to refer/compare to another RAVE ETM , although actually for the Disco in order to find the written 'blurb' above (albeit with those different connector numbers..) when someone at LR could simply have added this info to the P38 RAVE ETM in about 10 minutes (and also hopefully correctly..) !?]
    no need to apologise, You don't have to know or accept anything from RAVE when working on a P38, it wasn't written for you it was written for LR technicians who work across models and would come across this in due coarse.
    Larry S
    1995 4.6 HSE

  11. #24
    LEGACY VENDOR marty_nz's Avatar
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    I'm not saying you're making snarky comments Larry. I appreciate your help and advice, and for finding/posting the relevant data. I'm sorry if it came across as that comment being directed at you. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, more of a general forum-wide observation of late.

    I don't take comments/changes/advice personally - if something's not correct, then I'd like to know.

    Cheers,
    Marty
    ------------------------------------------------
    '01 4.6 Vogue Black/Lightstone "Snog" -- Bought Jan 2012
    '99 4.6 HSE Cobar Blue/Lightstone -- Sold March 2009
    '95 4.6 HSE Epsom Green/Tan -- Traded June 2008
    http://p38webshop.co.uk

  12. #25
    davewp38
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    no need to apologise, You don't have to know or accept anything from RAVE when working on a P38, it wasn't written for you it was written for LR technicians who work across models and would come across this in due coarse.
    Obviously my note was not actually intended as an apology as such, Larry - More a re-afirmation of the vagueness of RAVE; I fully appreciate that it is 'not intended for me', but neither does it seem detail-oriented enough for many LR Service Engineers, either (and that is a comment I have actually heard them say themselves, in part as a reason/excuse for charging for {additional} hours of work when a better/clearer RAVE documentation could have reduced these...) I don't want technicians just to 'happen across the correct data in due course'- and neither do other LR customers, surely ?

    It is simply lazy for LR to have produced RAVE documents with any ambivalence/errors/omissions in this day and age. I believe that any such technical data - if presented badly - will inevitably impact on the reputation and quality of the product.....Again, just look at similar documents from other manufacturers (from the same era) for details !

    Err.... now what was the intended topic here again ??

  13. #26
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Marty_nz, thanks for taking the time and posting this up. My truck has an aftermarket single DIN unit hacked into it so one day I'll be fixing it...in the meantime, I do have an O-scope and am willing to check anything that y'all might like to have checked/confirmed. Just let me know.

    Lol. As an aside the whole nitpicky aspect on display in this thread cracks me up.

  14. #27
    davewp38
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    I think it is all pretty much sorted now Trionic - but it may make 'certain folks' happy if you look at the diagram I posted up sometime (the one @ 05.11) and 'independently verify' it.... !

    PS: It cracks me up, too..... Reactionaries !!

  15. #28
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Trionic View Post
    ........... I do have an O-scope and am willing to check anything that y'all might like to have checked/confirmed. Just let me know.
    Trionic,

    Well if you're offering. Connector C0922 (Green) on back of head unit has a pink/black wire on pin 10. I believe this to be the control for the DSP amp to select DSP Off / DSP Driver / DSP Spatial - I'd like this confirmed and to know how these are selected via this wire - simple voltage change or something more sophisticated?

    Thanks
    2001 Vogue . . . . . . and, yes, I do own the road!

  16. #29
    davewp38
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    If it uses the same/similar I/K bus architecture as the CD changer then you may be looking at another bi-directional digital control bus; If so expect 0/12V square-wave bursts of data (primarily signalling towards the DSP amp), in 5m/s-30m/s packets @ 9.6kbps... (?)

    Who actually makes the DSP amp. ? (Could be a big clue....)

  17. #30
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    Re: **INFO** P38 Alpine/DSP Amp Connections and wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by davewp38 View Post
    If it uses the same/similar I/K bus architecture as the CD changer then you may be looking at another bi-directional digital control bus; If so expect 0/12V square-wave bursts of data (primarily signalling towards the DSP amp), in 5m/s-30m/s packets @ 9.6kbps... (?)

    Who actually makes the DSP amp. ? (Could be a big clue....)
    Harmon Kardon make the DSP amp. Data bus seems a little overkill for selecting one of only three states and I would expect more than a single wire for a data bus - it seems to use just a normal earth with no specific shielding!
    2001 Vogue . . . . . . and, yes, I do own the road!

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